Grey knights questions and ideas

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

Ok i have been thinking about Grey Knights recently and so i've looked through the various posts on the B&C and i have a few questions.

 

First off i've seen alot of posts concerning GK as allies to space marine armies. Now i dont own the DH codex but i have looked into it a couple times and if i remember right GK units cant be taken in a DH army if space marine allies are used. So how is it people are having dreadnoughts and land speeders AND GK marines if theyarent allowed in the same army. Are they just representing their space marines as GKs? Or has the rule changed since the last time i read it?

 

Also (and this is more of the idea part of the post) has anyone made a GK jetbike? I own the DA codex so im well aware of the DA jetbike being the last KNOWN one in the Imperium. But the Gk arent exactly a universally known organisation with acess to many relics so it wouldent be to far fetched to say that they have some jetbikes.

[Grand Master Tyrak]

First off i've seen alot of posts concerning GK as allies to space marine armies. Now i dont own the DH codex but i have looked into it a couple times and if i remember right GK units cant be taken in a DH army if space marine allies are used. So how is it people are having dreadnoughts and land speeders AND GK marines if theyarent allowed in the same army. Are they just representing their space marines as GKs? Or has the rule changed since the last time i read it?

 

You cannot take Space Marine allies in a DH/GK parent list (i.e. the compulsory choices are taken from C:DH). However, you can take a limited number of GK allies in a Space Marine parent list (with the exception of Heavy Support choices). That's the only way to combine Space Marines and Grey Knights in the same army, excepting Heavy Support. You cannot take GK Heavy Support and SM Heavy Support in the same army.

 

Obviously, Apocalypse ignores all of this.

[eb693]

So how is it people are having dreadnoughts and land speeders AND GK marines if theyarent allowed in the same army. Are they just representing their space marines as GKs?

 

You can field DH models in one of two ways:

 

- Field a DH army

- Take DH as allies to an Imperial Guard, SoB or Marines parent list

 

If you field a DH army, and take GKs, you cannot take inducted Space Marines. If you take a Space Marine army, you -can- include GKs as part of your DH allies. Hope that clears that up for you ;)

 

As for the jetbike thing, that'd be pretty awesome. It's something that some people are speculating slash wishlisting will be in the new codex!

[Justicar Valius]

#1 IF your base list is from codex SM or another loyalist SM chapter and you take the HQ and 2 troops from that list you may have 0-1 HQ, 0-1 Elites, 0-2 troops and 0-1 fast attack from codex DH that are allowed to be GK. If you take your base list from codex DH and take GK you can't ally in SM under the immortal emperor of mankind rule. They can do it and infact a Sanguinary priest + GKT = WIN.

 

#2 Not that I know of but the BnC has rules for them ;) GK Lancers

 

The rules are done for those but you can always try and make it so one of the SC ride a jetbike.

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

#1 IF your base list is from codex SM or another loyalist SM chapter and you take the HQ and 2 troops from that list you may have 0-1 HQ, 0-1 Elites, 0-2 troops and 0-1 fast attack from codex DH that are allowed to be GK. If you take your base list from codex DH and take GK you can't ally in SM under the immortal emperor of mankind rule. They can do it and infact a Sanguinary priest + GKT = WIN.

 

#2 Not that I know of but the BnC has rules for them :D GK Lancers

 

The rules are done for those but you can always try and make it so one of the SC ride a jetbike.

 

OH OK. So it basically depends on what the main army is. So if your main army is from the SM codex and you fulfill the requirements for that list (1 HQ and 2 troops) then you can take a few GK as allies (except for heavy support your stuck with SM). But if you have the DH codex and use GK then SM are a no go. Looks like i need to get the DH codex then but in the mean time I'll start making my "counts as" half of the list from the SM portion of the army. This makes ALOT more sense now, thank you brothers for your explenations. I fear im not very knowledgable about the rules for ally armies as the only allied games I've played have been two on two games.

 

Also since i now understand that part of the rules (or think i do) and since GK can be taken as allies for SM armies am i right in saying that i could take GK allies in my SW army? (im inspired by the 1st war for Armageddon) or that i could make SM characters into "counts as" GK characters? I know they wouldent follow GK rules.

 

And lastley how do special rules work across armies? For instance could i use the rites of battle rule from Sicarius on GK units? Or use psychic powers from Tigurius on GK squads? I know that Logan Grimnars living legends rules works for all freindly models and im pretty sure that chapter tactics wont work on GK because they dont have combat tactics.

 

And now that i think about it dont GK have resistance to psychic powers? (in regards to Tigurius using psychic abilities on GK units)

[number6]

Also since i now understand that part of the rules (or think i do) and since GK can be taken as allies for SM armies am i right in saying that i could take GK allies in my SW army?

Yep. :lol:

or that i could make SM characters into "counts as" GK characters? I know they wouldent follow GK rules.

Again, you've got it exactly. ;)

And lastley how do special rules work across armies?

Depends on how the rule is worded. Generally speaking, most people agree that rules that affect "the army" affect allied units as well.

 

Be aware that this is a contentious issue, however. For example, allowing Sisters of Battle -- with their numerous meltas and flamers -- to benefit from Vulkan's special rules. (People still debate about the "fairness" and "intention" of this situation because Combat Tactics is at least partially implicated, and Sisters don't have Combat Tactics.) So be prepared for a bit of discussion with your opponent if you're trying to take advantage of special rules from another codex.

For instance could i use the rites of battle rule from Sicarius on GK units?

No, because Rite of Battle affects "all other Space Marine units", and Grey Knights are not Space Marines (from a rules perspective). Not that you should ever have to worry about this. GKs are all Fearless, and so immune to pinning and morale tests.

Or use psychic powers from Tigurius on GK squads?

Yes, because all Librarian psychic powers that don't target enemies are worded to affect the Librarian "and any unit he is with".

I know that Logan Grimnars living legends rules works for all freindly models

Exactly.

and im pretty sure that chapter tactics wont work on GK because they dont have combat tactics.

Exactly.

And now that i think about it dont GK have resistance to psychic powers? (in regards to Tigurius using psychic abilities on GK units)

You're thinking of the Aegis, which doesn't affect friendly psyker powers. It only affects "an enemy psyker [that] uses a power that targets a Grey Knight squad or character".

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

OOOOOOK thank you for clarifying all of that for me