Drop pods or Rhinos

[morehardcore]

So guys the eternal question, Drop podding or using Rhinos.

 

personally i always liked the idea of drop podding but find it to be to much of a 1 trick pony, while rhino's i find to be a good barracade and not much else. any opinions?

[Ryzouken]

Rhinos.

 

Go second, hold your army in reserve. Turn 2, come in off the short table edge 12 inches up (your DZ extends that far and the book does not designate which table edge reserves come on from, it just says "your table edge". Your table edge = all edges of table in your DZ, including about 12 inches up the side), roll forward 12 inches and pop smoke. Turn 3, disembark and do your thing. If your opponent was dumb enough to move forward when you were off table, you can flank or refused flank him as you see fit. If he stayed back, you can refused flank him.

 

 

Flow, like water, around the enemy.

[Silverwolf]

It's not a black and white question. Pods are better for some situations, while rhinos are better for others.

 

Pods = 50% of your army will be capable of shooting at the enemy turn 1, and will be in assault turn 2. However there are no guarantees on when the rest of your army will get there. However as your able to pick and choose what drops turn 1 each game, if you build your list right you can tailor the initial drop force for versing a specific foe. One good tactic is to try to isolate one flank of your enemies army with the inital landings, maybe with one nasty unit somewhere else in the lines to cause a bit of a distraction, while you eat one big chunk out of the side of his army.

 

Rhinos = More reliable transportation. However they are more expensive, and it means turn 2 is when the action starts, and no guarantee you'll be in close combat turn 2. I personally prefer Rhinos as a general rule because I've had to many bad experiences with Drop Pods ;). However I'll still always put a Dread / Ven.Dread in a Drop Pod, specially if I'm running only a single Pod in the army, as this means that turn 1 I can put a nasty little distraction right in the face of the enemy, which means less fire coming at my Rhinos as they roll across the table.

[08ak1]

Turn 2, come in off the short table edge 12 inches up (your DZ extends that far and the book does not designate which table edge reserves come on from, it just says "your table edge". Your table edge = all edges of table in your DZ, including about 12 inches up the side)

 

page 88, top left, "The Gaming Surface"

 

The short edges while part of you DZ in some missions are not your table edge by default.

 

it also states in all 3 of the standard missions that each player chooses a long table edge to be their own.

 

 

to the OP, Drop pod's require more thought then Rhino's. What will you do if your enemy reserves their entire force? What will you do if the enemy has better close combat units then you do? What will you do if they think their cool because they brought the imperial crutch(Mystics)?

 

I run a Wolf Pod army myself and have great success against nearly everything, but i answered all those questions in my list and already have a relative plan for various other issues a podding army will run into.

 

One other piece of advice i can give about podding is that when i mess with my list i live by a rule, i call it "drop effective" this means that a unit is geared to be effective in some way the turn it drop pods in....it's plan is not to drop in, sit there a turn, then do something worthwhile. Luckily wolves are great at this with our access to gear like combi weapons and multiple assault weapons in squads.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

In case you get Rhinos, make sure you buy Razorbacks. They only cost a little more and you have effectively doubled the amount of tanks in your stable.

 

I didn't and am now stuck using Rhinos all the time, unless I borrow my brother's stuff.

 

+++

 

I would suggest Rhinos would be an easier option to use as a first choice and then implement Pods later.

[morehardcore]

well i ran a all pod army in the last dex so i have about 5 of those and i have 2 rhino's currently so thats pretty good.

 

my only issue with pods is the easy kp and the fact that they cost the same as a naked rhino.

 

i might give pods a shot tho rhinos army great for :cusss and giggles (anybody else love to block outflanking genestealers?)

[08ak1]

my only issue with pods is the easy kp and the fact that they cost the same as a naked rhino.

 

pods are armor 12 but open topped, rhino is 11 with 10 at the back. Overall the pods do tend to outright die easier but not by a lot.

 

the notion of pods being easy KP's really stems from people who use 1 pod to drop a dreadnought or something in the enemies face on turn 1, the enemy can deal with the single unit and take out the pod as well without much sweat. However if you drop an army of pods in your enemies face and they feel the need to spend some of their fire power capable of breaking open armor 12 on the pods....all the better for the mass of angry wolves their not shooting at that just got out of the pods.

[LoneSniperSG]

It's not a black and white question. Pods are better for some situations, while rhinos are better for others.

 

Pods = 50% of your army will be capable of shooting at the enemy turn 1, and will be in assault turn 2. However there are no guarantees on when the rest of your army will get there. However as your able to pick and choose what drops turn 1 each game, if you build your list right you can tailor the initial drop force for versing a specific foe. One good tactic is to try to isolate one flank of your enemies army with the inital landings, maybe with one nasty unit somewhere else in the lines to cause a bit of a distraction, while you eat one big chunk out of the side of his army.

 

So does that mean you can deploy a pod, disembark the squad and then they can shoot at any nearby enemies? Or am I just totally stupid?

[Hjaertrr]

Yes, you can dis-embark and shoot in the same turn.

[commander alexander]

Its personal preference really. I prefer drop pods. I'm going to run 4 grey hunter packs in pods, while the rest of the force is a gun line. When they do come down, they're extremely flexable, and can take care of themselves. Meanwhile the rest of the troops foot-slog or rhino on up to the uncovered objectives.

[Grimtooth]

I am in the process of switching over to a mech list over drop list. I will keep a couple of pods for probably wolf guard in tda to come in and deliver storm bolter/asscan fire on select lists, but I have a LR Redeemer to deliver them if I want to stay mech.

[Ikken]

In case you get Rhinos, make sure you buy Razorbacks. They only cost a little more and you have effectively doubled the amount of tanks in your stable.

 

I didn't and am now stuck using Rhinos all the time, unless I borrow my brother's stuff.

 

+++

 

I would suggest Rhinos would be an easier option to use as a first choice and then implement Pods later.

 

i would agree . buy razorbacks , and make them convertable . it is your best cost effective solution . I also agree that rhinos would be best to start with . I don't use drop pods , but the players in my Game group that do , have mixed results with them . I think rhinos are more predictable .

[Blarmb]

Personally I'm a fan of the Razorback over both those options.

 

-Lascannon/Twin-Linked Plasma gun means a Heavy Weapon & 2nd Special for the cost it would take to get the 2nd Special in a GH squad

-Weapons being mounted on the vehicles themselves means I don't have to have 8 dudes twiddling their thumbs to have the weapons protected from small arms fire.

-Weapons being mounted on the vehicles themselves means I can separate them out, moving on their own if need be or just shooting a different target. This makes up for the flexibility lost by the SWs inability to combat squad.

-6-Man capacity is very efficient for adding a Wolf Guard or IC to a 5-man squad. With the Rhino or Drop pod I'm either not taking one, wasting transport spacee, or paying for everything but that special weapon.

 

Granted Rhino carried squads will get you more for your points in close combat, I feel like in most lists the extra shooting value the Razorback squad brings will outweigh this. There are

[Grimtooth]

Personally I'm a fan of the Razorback over both those options.

 

-Lascannon/Twin-Linked Plasma gun means a Heavy Weapon & 2nd Special for the cost it would take to get the 2nd Special in a GH squad

-Weapons being mounted on the vehicles themselves means I don't have to have 8 dudes twiddling their thumbs to have the weapons protected from small arms fire.

-Weapons being mounted on the vehicles themselves means I can separate them out, moving on their own if need be or just shooting a different target. This makes up for the flexibility lost by the SWs inability to combat squad.

-6-Man capacity is very efficient for adding a Wolf Guard or IC to a 5-man squad. With the Rhino or Drop pod I'm either not taking one, wasting transport spacee, or paying for everything but that special weapon.

 

Granted Rhino carried squads will get you more for your points in close combat, I feel like in most lists the extra shooting value the Razorback squad brings will outweigh this. There are

 

I think ur placing too much value on a single 24" ranged weapon in comparison to a full size squad with 2 plasma guns being transported.

[Blarmb]

Personally I'm a fan of the Razorback over both those options.

 

-Lascannon/Twin-Linked Plasma gun means a Heavy Weapon & 2nd Special for the cost it would take to get the 2nd Special in a GH squad

-Weapons being mounted on the vehicles themselves means I don't have to have 8 dudes twiddling their thumbs to have the weapons protected from small arms fire.

-Weapons being mounted on the vehicles themselves means I can separate them out, moving on their own if need be or just shooting a different target. This makes up for the flexibility lost by the SWs inability to combat squad.

-6-Man capacity is very efficient for adding a Wolf Guard or IC to a 5-man squad. With the Rhino or Drop pod I'm either not taking one, wasting transport spacee, or paying for everything but that special weapon.

 

Granted Rhino carried squads will get you more for your points in close combat, I feel like in most lists the extra shooting value the Razorback squad brings will outweigh this. There are

 

I think ur placing too much value on a single 24" ranged weapon in comparison to a full size squad with 2 plasma guns being transported.

 

Except it's more than just a single 24" ranged weapon. It's a 24" twin- linked weapon AND a 48" range weapon, that can operate independently of it's purchasing squad. You're also making the WG a "Comfortable" fit, which adds value.

 

"A full size squad with 2 plasma guns being transported" is just that. It's two plasma guns, and eight bolters, and a storm bolter. Or two plasma guns, and a storm bolter if you want those plasma guns to be armored.

 

10 man squad, with a rhino, power fist and plasma gun is 220 points.

-10 Bodies

-2 Plasma Guns

-2 Power Fist Attacks

-Storm Bolter

-11/11/10 Chassis

 

in comparison a 5-man squad with a plasma gun, las/plas razorback and a wolf guard sporting a combi-weapon and power fist is 203 points.

-6 Bodies

-2 Plasma Guns (one of which is twin-linked)

-1 Combi-Weapon (Plasma, or whatever you want)

-1 Lascannon

-3 Power Fist Attacks

-11/11/10 Chassis

 

On a squad-per-squad basis, you're basically trading 4 bodies and a Storm Bolter for +1 Combi Weapon, Twin-Linking on a Special weapon, +1 Lascannon, +1 Power Fist attack. Not a perfect trade in every situation, but a stronger one in most. It gets even more interesting when you consider the other special weapons. Do you want a second flamer, or a twin-linked heavy flamer and a combi-flamer?.The ability to take a 2nd Melta is certainly nice for the Rhino squad I'll admit, but you can always take a combi-melta (and still have your lascannon) in the razorback squad. The combi-melta may only be one shot, but that is less of a problem on a short range weapon that is likely only going to fire a couple times in a given game anyway.

 

However it's more than that, notice the Razorback squad is 203 points vs 220. This is a 17 point difference, enough to pay down one body in your next GH squad. So you're really only giving up 3 bodies for the stuff I listed. The Lascannon in particular is an important point as you're getting the ability to bust medium armor a long range in one of your troops slots, making the rest of the list more flexible as a whole.

 

I'm not really saying that 10-man/rhino is a horrible choice, just that it's applications are a bit more narrow than the Razorback squad, meaning it's not as quite a strong an "All Purpose" choice as going for Razorbacks.

[Grimtooth]

Personally I'm a fan of the Razorback over both those options.

 

-Lascannon/Twin-Linked Plasma gun means a Heavy Weapon & 2nd Special for the cost it would take to get the 2nd Special in a GH squad

-Weapons being mounted on the vehicles themselves means I don't have to have 8 dudes twiddling their thumbs to have the weapons protected from small arms fire.

-Weapons being mounted on the vehicles themselves means I can separate them out, moving on their own if need be or just shooting a different target. This makes up for the flexibility lost by the SWs inability to combat squad.

-6-Man capacity is very efficient for adding a Wolf Guard or IC to a 5-man squad. With the Rhino or Drop pod I'm either not taking one, wasting transport spacee, or paying for everything but that special weapon.

 

Granted Rhino carried squads will get you more for your points in close combat, I feel like in most lists the extra shooting value the Razorback squad brings will outweigh this. There are

 

I think ur placing too much value on a single 24" ranged weapon in comparison to a full size squad with 2 plasma guns being transported.

 

Except it's more than just a single 24" ranged weapon. It's a 24" twin- linked weapon AND a 48" range weapon, that can operate independently of it's purchasing squad. You're also making the WG a "Comfortable" fit, which adds value.

 

"A full size squad with 2 plasma guns being transported" is just that. It's two plasma guns, and eight bolters, and a storm bolter. Or two plasma guns, and a storm bolter if you want those plasma guns to be armored.

 

10 man squad, with a rhino, power fist and plasma gun is 220 points.

-10 Bodies

-2 Plasma Guns

-2 Power Fist Attacks

-Storm Bolter

-11/11/10 Chassis

 

in comparison a 5-man squad with a plasma gun, las/plas razorback and a wolf guard sporting a combi-weapon and power fist is 203 points.

-6 Bodies

-2 Plasma Guns (one of which is twin-linked)

-1 Combi-Weapon (Plasma, or whatever you want)

-1 Lascannon

-3 Power Fist Attacks

-11/11/10 Chassis

 

On a squad-per-squad basis, you're basically trading 4 bodies and a Storm Bolter for +1 Combi Weapon, Twin-Linking on a Special weapon, +1 Lascannon, +1 Power Fist attack. Not a perfect trade in every situation, but a stronger one in most. It gets even more interesting when you consider the other special weapons. Do you want a second flamer, or a twin-linked heavy flamer and a combi-flamer? Same price. The ability to take a 2nd Melta is certainly nice for the Rhino squad I'll admit, but you can always take a combi-melta (and still have your lascannon) in the razorback squad. The combi-melta may only be one shot, but that is less of a problem on a short range weapon that is likely only going to fire a couple times in a given game anyway.

 

However it's more than that, notice the Razorback squad is 203 points vs 220. This is a 17 point difference, enough to pay down one body in your next GH squad. So you're really only giving up 3 bodies for the stuff I listed. The Lascannon in particular is an important point as you're getting the ability to bust medium armor a long range in one of your troops slots, making the rest of the list more flexible as a whole.

 

I'm not really saying that 10-man/rhino is a horrible choice, just that it's applications are a bit more narrow than the Razorback squad, meaning it's not as quite a strong an "All Purpose" choice as going for Razorbacks.

 

You're trying to over utilize a 6 man squad.

 

The majority of your unit doesn't bring any firepower to bear until 24", the same as a 10man squad in a rhino. You have 4 "ablative" wounds before you are pulling a wolf guard or special weapon, 10 man squad has 8, 7 if I consider my Mark of the Wulfen marine that valuable.

 

Furthermore, it isn't a viable option per not being able to Combat Squad. Your taking up one FOC for a 6 man squad that can only contest/capture up to two objectives. With codex marines, you have one FOC that allows contesting/capture of up to three objectives.

 

And you hardly need flexibility with anti-armor when one Long Fang squad with Razorback is engaging three targets a shooting phase.