Space Wolve Scouts

[kaneda21]

I was wondering why the new codex doesn't have the shotgun under weapons that the scouts can use, or am I missing some thing? I myself really like the look of them with shotguns, a shame if they are phasing that out.

[stinkenheim]

don't know the reasons behind it but its not an option for our scouts. shame but hey.

 

only person that would know is phil kelly and i doubt he posts on the B&C so you won't be getting any official answer. also if it were just an oversight then i would have been ammended in the errata lie frost blades so it leads me to assume its there for balance issues.

[Stormshrug]

I was wondering why the new codex doesn't have the shotgun under weapons that the scouts can use, or am I missing some thing? I myself really like the look of them with shotguns, a shame if they are phasing that out.

 

Eh, Shotguns look cool, but they're a TERRIBLE choice for Wolf Scouts, and always have been. Bolt Pistols aren't *strictly* better than 2 S3 AP - shots, but considering the extra attack they grant in close combat, they're darned close.

 

Against Space Marines, for instance:

 

Shotgun: 2 shots, 3s to hit, 5s to wound, 3+ sv = 14% chance to wound, give or take.

(7% per shot)

 

Bolt Pistol and CCW: 18% chance to inflict a wound, give or take.

Bolt Pistol: 1 shot, 3s to hit, 4s to wound, 3+ sv = 10% chance to wound, give or take.

Close Combat Attack: 4s to hit, 4s to wound, 3+ sv = 8% chance to wound, give or take.

 

Now, you might say that the Shotgun is a better choice if you want to shoot but don't end up assaulting. That would be fair, except that Bolters are free for Wolf Scouts, too.

 

Bolter (double-tap): 2 shots, 3s to hit, 4s to wound, 3+ sv = 20% chance to wound, give or take.

 

 

Now, if you just like the look of Shotguns, then personally, I don't think anybody would complain if you equipped a Shotgun but counted it as either a Bolter or a BP and CCW (as long as you were consistent). If you're dealing with real WYSIWYG jerks, you could even put a Bolter or BP and CCW on the model, holstered, along with the Shotgun (especially since they aren't a legal choice now, so there can be no confusion). Shotguns do look awesome.

 

-Stormshrug

[stinkenheim]

actually space marine shotguns are str 4, just the IG (and Inq...) one that are weedy

[Stormshrug]

Ah, fair. In our 3rd ed Codex, they were S3 - I was going off of that. In fact, I'd never noticed that they'd been updated in the 5th ed SM codex.

 

They're still worse than a Bolter or a Bolt Pistol the vast majority of situations, however, although I suppose they're *marginally* better for shooting against Space Marines while charging than a BP and a CC attack now if you only consider the first turn of combat on which you get the charge. I don't think they outweigh the added benefit of the extra CCW due to combats often lasting more than one assault phase.

 

-Stormshrug

[Hotspur]

I was wondering why the new codex doesn't have the shotgun under weapons that the scouts can use, or am I missing some thing? I myself really like the look of them with shotguns, a shame if they are phasing that out.

 

Eh, Shotguns look cool, but they're a TERRIBLE choice for Wolf Scouts, and always have been. Bolt Pistols aren't *strictly* better than 2 S3 AP - shots, but considering the extra attack they grant in close combat, they're darned close.

 

Against Space Marines, for instance:

 

Shotgun: 2 shots, 3s to hit, 5s to wound, 3+ sv = 14% chance to wound, give or take.

(7% per shot)

 

Bolt Pistol and CCW: 18% chance to inflict a wound, give or take.

Bolt Pistol: 1 shot, 3s to hit, 4s to wound, 3+ sv = 10% chance to wound, give or take.

Close Combat Attack: 4s to hit, 4s to wound, 3+ sv = 8% chance to wound, give or take.

 

Now, you might say that the Shotgun is a better choice if you want to shoot but don't end up assaulting. That would be fair, except that Bolters are free for Wolf Scouts, too.

 

Bolter (double-tap): 2 shots, 3s to hit, 4s to wound, 3+ sv = 20% chance to wound, give or take.

 

 

Now, if you just like the look of Shotguns, then personally, I don't think anybody would complain if you equipped a Shotgun but counted it as either a Bolter or a BP and CCW (as long as you were consistent). If you're dealing with real WYSIWYG jerks, you could even put a Bolter or BP and CCW on the model, holstered, along with the Shotgun (especially since they aren't a legal choice now, so there can be no confusion). Shotguns do look awesome.

 

-Stormshrug

 

Nice mathhammer... someone had to do it! :)

 

Agreed on the listed points, though; while the shotguns look really awesome, their effectiveness, in my mathhammerless opinion, was never on the same level as a bolter or even bolt-pistol. If you like the look of them, go with it and count them as something else like Stormshrug has suggested.

[Barn]

yeah ive used them as 'counts as CC weapon' before <_<

[Requiem of the Wolf]

yeah ive used them as 'counts as CC weapon' before :)

*snickers* all of a sudden I flash back to aliens and think of Corporal Hicks "I like to keep this handy,for close encounters"

[kaneda21]

yeah ive used them as 'counts as CC weapon' before :)

*snickers* all of a sudden I flash back to aliens and think of Corporal Hicks "I like to keep this handy,for close encounters"

 

Hahahaha I totally agree PRICELESS!!!! Hahaha TBH I also really like the look due to the pic in the 3rd codex with the SW Scout toting it... looked bad ass. After seeing the math though a shame not more effective... as most of you have suggested going to have to sub it as another weapon.