Dornian Heresy armies

[Sigismund Himself]

The Grey Knights are the name given by the Imperials to the Sensei and their warbands - the immortal biological offspring of the Emperor. Not even they know their true lineage - although Magnus is on a mission to inform and 'collect' them - they are seen as troublemakers by the Imperial authorities who try to hunt them down.

 

No, the Sensei (the term the use for themselves; see page 217, Slaves to Darkness) are the immortal biological, psychically null, offspring of the Emperor. The Grey Knights have always ever been of an unregistered founding, of unknown geneseed origin (see page 247, Slaves to Darkness; page 6, Codex: Daemonhunters; Index Astartes article "Purge the Unclean: The Grey Knights and Deathwatch Chapters").

 

You're confusing the two entirely.

Um, you do realise that Aurelius is talking about within his own alternate heresy?

[Lady_Mournival]

I was thinking about making a kind of mini-codex for the Alternate Heresy actually (was gonna run it by Aurelius of course, I'm sure he remembers my previous interest in helping with the Alternate Heresy, ha).

 

Much as I'd like to point "X codex matches Y legion", it doesn't quite fit in the AH. The Blood Angels, for example, don't really mesh with the traditional plague marine rules; while the Raven Guard have the closest thing to Obliterators (Annihilators), yet still with some differences that'd need to be worked out.

 

Probably the simplest would be the World Eaters, who match closest to the regular marines codex.

If Aurelius gives the green light, I'd more then gladly do my second favourite legion; Iron Warriors.

[Aurelius Rex]

Would it be worth working through them one at a time as a community project - say in the order they were in the Legio Imprint? :)

[Aqui]

Would it be worth working through them one at a time as a community project - say in the order they were in the Legio Imprint? :)

 

I take it that would include little stories (for want of a better term) to add a little flavour for each as they are being done?

 

/thinkingcap=ON

 

:)

[Brother_Kaelgrim]

I honestly would love to see a Dornian Thousand Sons army. The image of blind warrior-sages is quite evocative.

[Leebe]

Working on them in the Legio Imprint's order seems like a good idea.

 

That'd mean World Eaters, Emp's Children, and Raven Guard first.

 

Before that, we'd have to figure out the 'baseline' units that are used by the majority of the Legions. Some things are still unchanged, like Tactical Squads, Assault Squads, and Terminators, but others have new variants and names (like the Land Raiders, Predators, and so forth).

 

The same would have to be done with the legions of Chaos and the wayward Ultramarines (who, ironically, may be very simple to codex as most of their changes seem equipment based as opposed to vastly different squad names and functions).

 

I do have a question for Aurelius though, is Khârn the Deathless still around in modern times?

[malika666]

That'd mean World Eaters, Emp's Children, and Raven Guard first.

I think it would be better to do two at the time, a Traitor and a Loyalist one, so that people could play against each other. Either that, or keep them fighting against Xenos and do a Traitor and then a Loyalist and then a Traitor and so on.

 

Before that, we'd have to figure out the 'baseline' units that are used by the majority of the Legions. Some things are still unchanged, like Tactical Squads, Assault Squads, and Terminators, but others have new variants and names (like the Land Raiders, Predators, and so forth).

I don't know if the Legions had squads as simple as that. Note that assault squads before the Heresy were Raptors (introduced by the Night Lords and more specifically Zao Shaal or however you spell his name) who were an elite veteran unit. Also, squads were larger back then, I would thus enable players to field squads of 5-20 members rather than 5-10. Also include a lot of cool pre-Heresy equipment (Reaper Autocannons, combi-bolters, power maces, etc)

[The emperors chosen]

Would it be worth working through them one at a time as a community project - say in the order they were in the Legio Imprint? :)

It's your project, whatever you say goes ;)

I feel as if the Black Templar codex would be a good starting point for the the World Eaters, with some modifications, like Devastators, anyone else agree?

[Brother_Kaelgrim]

I would agree with that. Seems fairly fitting, melee centric yet not totally balls to the wall chop happy.

[Lady_Mournival]

Working on them in the Legio Imprint's order seems like a good idea.

 

That'd mean World Eaters, Emp's Children, and Raven Guard first.

 

Before that, we'd have to figure out the 'baseline' units that are used by the majority of the Legions. Some things are still unchanged, like Tactical Squads, Assault Squads, and Terminators, but others have new variants and names (like the Land Raiders, Predators, and so forth).

 

The same would have to be done with the legions of Chaos and the wayward Ultramarines (who, ironically, may be very simple to codex as most of their changes seem equipment based as opposed to vastly different squad names and functions).

 

I do have a question for Aurelius though, is Khârn the Deathless still around in modern times?

Definetly tell me if this project gets off the ground, I would love to help.

[Leebe]

I think it would be better to do two at the time, a Traitor and a Loyalist one, so that people could play against each other. Either that, or keep them fighting against Xenos and do a Traitor and then a Loyalist and then a Traitor and so on.

 

Good point. So probably World Eaters and Raven Guard first.

 

I don't know if the Legions had squads as simple as that. Note that assault squads before the Heresy were Raptors (introduced by the Night Lords and more specifically Zao Shaal or however you spell his name) who were an elite veteran unit. Also, squads were larger back then, I would thus enable players to field squads of 5-20 members rather than 5-10. Also include a lot of cool pre-Heresy equipment (Reaper Autocannons, combi-bolters, power maces, etc)

 

Larger squads does seem appropriate, as does the slightly different equipment. We already know the Emperor's Children use mostly heresy era tech (including Jetbikes). Most legions did have assault squads in the Great Crusade and Heresy though, even if not all of them used Jump Pack technology (pioneered, as you pointed out, by the Night Lords). But as this Codex would pertain for the 41st millennium of this alternate reality, Assault squads with jump packs seem relatively common (at least as much so as in the regular continuity).

 

Plus, separating them into Assault/Tactical squads makes things easier for us in the long run. Less options to have to cram into one unit type.

[Lady_Mournival]

I think it would be better to do two at the time, a Traitor and a Loyalist one, so that people could play against each other. Either that, or keep them fighting against Xenos and do a Traitor and then a Loyalist and then a Traitor and so on.

 

Good point. So probably World Eaters and Raven Guard first.

 

I don't know if the Legions had squads as simple as that. Note that assault squads before the Heresy were Raptors (introduced by the Night Lords and more specifically Zao Shaal or however you spell his name) who were an elite veteran unit. Also, squads were larger back then, I would thus enable players to field squads of 5-20 members rather than 5-10. Also include a lot of cool pre-Heresy equipment (Reaper Autocannons, combi-bolters, power maces, etc)

 

Larger squads does seem appropriate, as does the slightly different equipment. We already know the Emperor's Children use mostly heresy era tech (including Jetbikes). Most legions did have assault squads in the Great Crusade and Heresy though, even if not all of them used Jump Pack technology (pioneered, as you pointed out, by the Night Lords). But as this Codex would pertain for the 41st millennium of this alternate reality, Assault squads with jump packs seem relatively common (at least as much so as in the regular continuity).

 

Plus, separating them into Assault/Tactical squads makes things easier for us in the long run. Less options to have to cram into one unit type.

 

I think we should do one legion at a time; just to simply make sure that each legion gets the attention it deserves. I also agree that we should keep some of the basic squad types. I think an easy way to organize this would be to take a page out of the Tempus Fugitives' book and do each legion individually; except with units also instead of just characters and upgrades.

[malika666]

Wait...this book would be a post-heresy thing? I thought it was going to be Heresy era stuff...

[Leebe]

If it's at Heresy era, a lot of the major Legion changes hadn't happened yet. The Raven Guard were still loyal for instance, and hadn't yet been corrupted by Bile. Similarly, whatever was going on with the Iron Hands (little what we know about them) hadn't yet reached what it will later.

[Lady_Mournival]

If it's at Heresy era, a lot of the major Legion changes haven't happened yet. The Raven Guard were still loyal for instance, and hadn't yet been corrupted by Bile.

That's why post-dornian heresy is the answer.

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

Ok so we have the UM and Raven Gaurd. Does anyone else have a specific legion they would like to work on? Personally i would work on either the alternate Blood Angels or Thousand Sons.

 

And as far as the Grey Knights go that is the cannon form of the chapter. I think in the Dornian Heresy the Grey Knights are an order created by Magnus from his stongest psykers in order to combat the daemonic.

[Leebe]

That's why post-dornian heresy is the answer.

 

Exactly, I was just clarifying. So yes, from what it looks like, we'll be doing a post Heresy codex for this continuity.

 

As apart from the Ultramarines the other Legions are not broken into chapters as they are in the regular universe, certain things from the Great Crusade would likely carry over- larger squad size and the use of some technology (along the lines of the mainstream Chaos Marines codex and the use of potentially 20 man squads and Havoc Launchers) for instance.

 

Ok so we have the UM and Raven Gaurd. Does anyone else have a specific legion they would like to work on? Personally i would work on either the alternate Blood Angels or Thousand Sons.

 

I see no issue with you taking either of those. As a community effort, there's nothing wrong with several people working on even the same legions at once (we can slam out the details and the discrepancies as things come together).

[Lady_Mournival]

Well, I'd be more then happy to work on the World Eaters and Thousand Sons (since we're just doing legions out of this volume of the Dornian Heresy); and preferably with someone as I find I need someone to temper my zeal and just to bounce my ideas off of.

 

Oh, I move we actually make this a seperate topic so we can more easily keep track of things, and also in the main post we can start a roster for who's doing what and guestimated progress.

 

edit: I also wouldn't mind working with the Emperor's Children except in a much more minor role then the two legions mentioned above.

[Leebe]

I'd be glad to bounce ideas around, though this week will be hectic due to finals.

 

I did make a list of compiled units to get started on the World Eaters, with confirmed squads and vehicles (those mentioned in the IAs anyways), as well as questions as to Dornian Heresy universe equivalents and alterations.

 

Categorized in standard Force Organizational format:

 

HQ Units:

Legion Master

Company Captain

Librarian

Chaplain

 

Troop Choices:

Tactical Squad

Recruits (Unsure whether they’d be like Scouts, or simply less experienced Power Armored Marines)

 

Fast Attack Choice:

Assault Squad

Land Speeder

 

Elite Choice:

Terminators (In the Legions it’s probably they’d be less divisive on Assault Terminators being something separate from the usual firearm variant)

Dreadnought

 

Heavy Support:

Predator Destructor

Predator Dominator (Probably the Annihilator equivalent, possibly the Baal, as I can see the World Eaters developing something along those lines)

Land Raider

Land Raider Incinerator (Likely an equivalent of the Redeemer)

Vindicator

Devastator Squad

 

Transports:

Rhino

Tilvius APC (Razorback?)

 

Units which are questionably existent:

Whirlwind, Land Raider Prometheus, Land Raider Crusader (though if anyone is likely to mention it in an IA, it is the Sons of Horus/Black Templar), Land Speeder Typhoon and Tornado

 

Side note: Legions being much more vast than Chapters, I was thinking that Sternguard and Vanguard equivalents might not be considered such an ‘elite’ choice. Perhaps more of an upgrade for a tactical/assaut squad to represent greater experience? Not likely a cheap one mind you, but something to show the somewhat more likely chance of having many veterans on the field at once.

[malika666]

HQ Units:

Legion Master

Company Captain

Librarian

Why no Chaplains? What about the Lieutenant?

 

Troop Choices:

Tactical Squad

Give them the option of having close combat weapons or maybe make assault squads (without jump packs) a troops option?

[Leebe]

Forgot about Chaplains (I always forget those guys, they're always using their optional jump pack to sneak into my blind spot). Edit fixing it. Not sure the benifit of Lieutenants, maybe adding them to a command squad equivalent would fit well. Otherwise I can see them cluttering the usefulness of Company Captains.

 

The Assault Squad idea is good, except Tactical Squads already have the option to exchange their bolt gun with a chainsword/boltpistol, so we'd probably keep that option. All adding Assault Squad to the troop menu would do is give additional Jump Infantry. Though depending on how IA Night Lords comes out, that may be their gig.

[malika666]

Not sure the benifit of Lieutenants, maybe adding them to a command squad equivalent would fit well. Otherwise I can see them cluttering the usefulness of Company Captains.

If I recall correctly the 3rd edition codex for the Space Marines included 3 variants of the Force Commander. I would give the Legion Master a Ld of 10, maybe access to some funky equipment (which only he may use) and some other special rules. They would be akin to a slightly lesser version of a Special Character.

The Company Captain, would be your average force commander, good Ld, tough in battle. The Lieutenant would be a lesser version, cheaper too. Great for small games. (keep the Lieutenant as a rank in the background, since it was a pre-heresy rank)

[Lady_Mournival]

I just made this quickly to help get things rolling, http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=200970

 

Leeba and Aurelius please be project managers!!!!

 

and people please sign up so we can get this rolling more so then it already is ;)

[Ferrata]

My personal sugegstion would be that you make a generic codex to start from, and then make the different legions move away from this. This codex will probably be quite easy, a copy of the current codex in many ways. From then you can modify it to fit the different legions and ensure there is more balance then coming in blind every time

[Leebe]

A great idea there Ferrata. I was thinking the same, using the World Eaters as the template (in a similar way to the way Codex: Space Marines is essentially Codex: Ultramarines).