Massive Multi-Assault Shenanigan

[thade]

Here is the idea:

 

My opponent has (from my left to my right) a 15-man chaos marine squad, a unit of possessed space marines, and Abbadon the Really Scary IC (joined to the possessed unit).

 

I have (from my left to my right), a flying assault squad, a librarian in terminator armor (joined at this moment to the flying assault squad), a vanguard (lit claws and storm shields) with a chaplain, and a foot-slogging assault squad. Both assault squads have power fists.

 

I charge like this:

- Vanguard multi-assault into both the possessed unit and the chaos space marine unit; one with LC in BtB with scary IC.

- Flying assault squad + Librarian into Chaos squad.

- Foot-slogging assault squad into the scary IC, PF in BtB with the possessed *and* him (and all but two of them in range to hit). There were various vehicles in the way that prevented this entire squad from getting into range.

 

IC goes first; kills two vanguard.

I have several sanguine priests mixed in, so I have Furious Charge and I go on I5 and S5 (6" radius, wee). My vanguard eats the possessed marines and puts two wounds on Abbadon.

Flying Assault squad massacres the Chaos unit, leaving three of them up.

ASSUME: Assault squad manages to kill Abbadon by overwhelming him with wounds. (What really happened is combat closed and Abbadon died to No Retreat wounds.)

 

Now, I1 comes along and I have one power fist left over. Assuming Abbadon had been killed and my PF was no longer in BtB with anything, could he still deliver blows to the Chaos Space Marine squad...waaaaaay over on the left of this massive assault. If those CSM are still standing after I1, that PF and everybody else has to consolidate towards that fight (per BRB)...so I'm thinking Yes, he does, as the BRB states a model that could attack at the start of a fight still can later on even if it looks like it can't. But the PF wasn't anywhere near that other fight (literally a foot and a half away).

 

Verdict?

[Koremu]

The Fist can only attack a unit or IC it was in B2B with or was within 2" of a model in B2B with.

[ShinyRhino]

The Fist can only attack a unit or IC it was in B2B with or was within 2" of a model in B2B with.

 

As Koremu said, you have to attack what you were based or engaged with at the start of the battle.

 

it's easier to think of it as declaring all the various attacks as soon as the assault phase starts, before ANY dice roll. Take a bucket, and put all the attcks aimed at Abbadon in it. Another bucket for the Possessed, another for the CSMs. At each Initiative mark, take the appropriate dice out of the buckets, and resolve them.

If the target of a given bucket is eliminated before all of the dice in it are rolled, throw the remainder out the window.

[Frosty the Pyro]

1: no retreats is only taken at the END of combat, so that would happen after I:1 not before (aka if abadon was killed by no retreat, it would happen after the power fist attacks, not before).

2: who can hit who is decided BEFORE anyone swings (pre I10), this does not change untill the next turns assault phase, so those fists would only be able to attack them at the begining.

3: Koremu is only mostly correct, remember if a model is in BtB (at the begining) it can only attack units its in BtB with (at the begining), a model can only use the within 2" of a BtB model from the same unit (so an assault marine could not use being within 2" of the vanguard, or the other assault marin unit) option if its not in BtB with any enemies (at the begining) itself. This is what the often missunderstood third bullet (from the errata) means.

 

 

edit:

it's easier to think of it as declaring all the various attacks as soon as the assault phase starts, before ANY dice roll. Take a bucket, and put all the attcks aimed at Abbadon in it. Another bucket for the Possessed, another for the CSMs. At each Initiative mark, take the appropriate dice out of the buckets, and resolve them.

If the target of a given bucket is eliminated before all of the dice in it are rolled, throw the remainder out the window.

 

This also is close but not entirely accurate. What targets are legal are decided at the beging of the assault, but which of the legal targets is actualy attacked is decided at the initive phase of the attack.

 

For example your unit of assault marines is in an assault with 3 enemies, some slugga boys, some nobz, and a warboss. Your fist powered sergent is BtB with a nob and the warboss, so it is legal for him to attack either, if the warboss is killed before his initive he may still punch a nob in the face. The attacks are only thrown out the windo if ALL legal targets are removed (the nob unit and warbos both are wiped out before the sergent attacks), then the sargent doesnt attack, even if he IS within 2" of an assualt marine that is in BtB with the slugga boys, the slugga boys were not a legal target for the sergent at the begining.

[Duke Corwin]

If I read your description correctly then the answer is no. If the PF was is BtB with the possessed unit and IC, but not in BtB with the CSM unit, at the start of the combat, (after assault moves and response moves but before any attacks are made) then the PF is only engaged with the possessed unit and IC and can only attack the possessed unit and or the IC. If the possessed unit and IC are wiped out before the PF attacks then it loses it's ability to attack that round.

 

 

Now had the PF been in BtB with the possessed and IC AND CSM units at the start of the combat portion of the assault phase then it could choose to attack any of the three when it's turn to attack comes and it doesn't matter if it is in BtB with either, both or all three, at this point in the fight.

 

Bottom line is when a models initiative comes up then the model can choose to attack any unit it was engaged with at the start of the combat portion of the assault phase.

[thade]

Thank you for clearing that up, guys. =) That is kind of a tricky bit there.

[Meatman]

Not trying to be akward (spelling?), but where in the rule book does it say a model can only attack models in BtB. I probably havn't worded this how I wanted to, but in an example, if a model is in BtB with a unit, and within 2" of a friendly model in BtB with an IC, according to the rule book he can hit both.

 

Page 35

 

Models in base contact with enemy models

Models within 2" of at least one model in their unit that is in base contact with any enemy models

 

So in theory the model can hit either. I ask because this issue came up and I was sure they could only hit the model they were in BtB with but I could not find it in the rules. :P

 

 

 

 

Sorry for hijacking the thread :D

[Seahawk]

It is spelled out on page 41. Your situation is exactly what the infamous first bullet point explains. The answer is no, since the PF wasn't in BTB with the CSM squad, he cannot attack them if he suddenly becomes "freed" from his original targets.

[Frosty the Pyro]

Not trying to be akward (spelling?), but where in the rule book does it say a model can only attack models in BtB. I probably havn't worded this how I wanted to, but in an example, if a model is in BtB with a unit, and within 2" of a friendly model in BtB with an IC, according to the rule book he can hit both.

 

Page 35

 

Models in base contact with enemy models

Models within 2" of at least one model in their unit that is in base contact with any enemy models

 

So in theory the model can hit either. I ask because this issue came up and I was sure they could only hit the model they were in BtB with but I could not find it in the rules. ;)

 

 

 

 

Sorry for hijacking the thread :devil:

 

 

What you are looking for is the third bullet, which is in the FAQ as errata. and you dont have to be in BtB, but if you are, you can only hit units you were in BtB with. In otherwords if you are in base to base you lose the "Models within 2" of at least one model in their unit that is in base contact with any enemy models" option. in a standard assault between one freindly unit and one enemy unit, this doesnt matter as there is only one target, but in multi assaults it will.

[Duke Corwin]

Not trying to be akward (spelling?), but where in the rule book does it say a model can only attack models in BtB. I probably havn't worded this how I wanted to, but in an example, if a model is in BtB with a unit, and within 2" of a friendly model in BtB with an IC, according to the rule book he can hit both.

 

Page 35

 

Models in base contact with enemy models

Models within 2" of at least one model in their unit that is in base contact with any enemy models

 

So in theory the model can hit either. I ask because this issue came up and I was sure they could only hit the model they were in BtB with but I could not find it in the rules. :lol:

 

 

 

 

Sorry for hijacking the thread :D

 

As has been said a model that is in BtB contact with an enemy unit (or units) can only attack that unit (or units). A model NOT in BtB contact with an enemy unit can attack an enemy unit if there is a model (not an IC) from his (or her) own unit within 2" that is also in BtB contact with the enemy unit at the start of the combat portion of the assault phase.

 

 

Example (start of combat portion - Joe, Bob and Mary are in the same unit)

 

Joe is in BtB contact with a model from the chaos marine squad and the chaos lord. Joe can attack either.

 

Bob is in BtB with a model from the chaos marine squad and is also within 2" of Joe. Bob can only attack the chaos marine squad.

 

Mary is not in BtB contact with and enemy. Mary is within 2" of Bob but is 3" from Joe. Mary can attack the chaos marine squad but CANNOT attack the chaos lord.