advantage of glaive encarmine vs power weapon

[Warpten]

Hi guys,

 

I was wondering what the advantage is of the glaive encarmine, except for the one re-roll to hit, versus a normal power weapon

 

You lose an attack on the charge beacause it's two handed, a power weapon is +1 ( single handed)

 

are there more benefits from the two handend thing?

[SnorriSnorrison]

Sadly, no. It just looks very nice. :D

Glaive encarmines are not like Relic Blades, so you lose +1 attack and gain nothing except for the re-roll.

 

Snorri

[ancient god]

Which comes out really close to rolling one more attack. I modeled my Vanguard Sarge with Blade Encarmine because it looked cooler. In-game, I don't think it'll make a noticeable difference.

[Citizen _Of_BAAL]

Actually if you do the math 3 attacks with one re-roll or 4 attacks straight up works out to the same number of hits on average.

The big difference is with glaive encarmine you get a MAX of 3 hits vs. a power weapon + pistol you can get a max of 4 hits. All in all I feel game wise they are a down grade, unless the model does not have pistol (pair it with a flamer, melta, SB)

 

So for me the glaive encarmine is one of the few thing in the new codex that looks cool but does not stack up against the good old classic equipment. To be honest glaive encarmine are really the only thing in the new codex I feel GW really missed the mark on. They are actually more of a pain during the game. If you have a squad with them you need to roll the hits for each model separately, kinda goes against the simplification GW has been doing to 40K to speed up play.

[Loki73]

Having played with my all saguinary guard army I can say that I thought about this as well. bein as it is two handed it should confer the =1 but consider this. if you run dante, The Grim and a chapter banner (mandator IMHO) youl get the extra attack plus the reroll AND a 50% change of getting furious charge from grim.

 

I also can tell you that for whatever reson most of the time when I reroll I hit.

 

add The Sanugunus (replacing grim) in with the chapter banner within 12 inches and youl get 4 attacks each, 5 on the charge.

[ChaosPhoenix]

Actually if you do the math 3 attacks with one re-roll or 4 attacks straight up works out to the same number of hits on average.

The big difference is with glaive encarmine you get a MAX of 3 hits vs. a power weapon + pistol you can get a max of 4 hits. All in all I feel game wise they are a down grade, unless the model does not have pistol (pair it with a flamer, melta, SB)

 

So for me the glaive encarmine is one of the few thing in the new codex that looks cool but does not stack up against the good old classic equipment. To be honest glaive encarmine are really the only thing in the new codex I feel GW really missed the mark on. They are actually more of a pain during the game. If you have a squad with them you need to roll the hits for each model separately, kinda goes against the simplification GW has been doing to 40K to speed up play.

 

Thats pretty much what I think. Glaives are only good for models which can't have a pistol, otherwise Power Weapons are better.

[Mortarion]

Re-rolling one missed attack is the same thing as getting +1 attack if you miss at least one attack.

A normal, one-handed, power weapon gets that extra attack whether they miss or not. (Assuming they have an additional CCW or pistol.)

 

So Glaives Encarmine are just inferior versions of normal power weapons rules-wise. But they look cool on the models! :lol:

[Feuermann]

I tink that Astorath armour is inspired in the human muscular system:

http://www.criticalbench.com/muscles/muscular-anatomy-front.jpg

[igotsmeakabob!!]

Didn't need that freaky picture to know that :D

[Mezkh]

For Vanguard, it's a way of creating another unique model for wound allocation.

 

It's also better of course if you don't have the second CCW to gain the +1 attack.

[Red Fury]

Actually if you do the math 3 attacks with one re-roll or 4 attacks straight up works out to the same number of hits on average.

The big difference is with glaive encarmine you get a MAX of 3 hits vs. a power weapon + pistol you can get a max of 4 hits. All in all I feel game wise they are a down grade, unless the model does not have pistol (pair it with a flamer, melta, SB)

 

So for me the glaive encarmine is one of the few thing in the new codex that looks cool but does not stack up against the good old classic equipment. To be honest glaive encarmine are really the only thing in the new codex I feel GW really missed the mark on. They are actually more of a pain during the game. If you have a squad with them you need to roll the hits for each model separately, kinda goes against the simplification GW has been doing to 40K to speed up play.

Well said. The best thing about then glaive is that the SG don't have a second ccw but still get to fight like they do...nearly. So anybody with a assault gun like a melta gun or angelus bolter get a bonus over using a standard pw.

 

-Fury

[Artemis360]

The advantage of glaive encarmines is that if anyone calls you a WAAC player for playing Blood Angels you can just say "no, I'm not. See? I'm using glaive encarmines"

[shatter]

With sanguard it aint the glaive versus pw, it's angelus bolters versus pistol that matters really.

[Grey Mage]

If it was reroll all to hits theyd be worth it, or the more apropos +1S for a two handed weapon....

 

As it is, I cant see a single reason to take it unless you have to.

[Plague Angel]

If it was reroll all to hits theyd be worth it, or the more apropos +1S for a two handed weapon....

 

As it is, I cant see a single reason to take it unless you have to.

Or if there's something else preventing you from getting the +1A already, then take the one re-roll for the same price IMO. Sanguard don't come with pistols, for example. And I've kind of been wanting to try out a Glaive/Storm Shield combo.

[spu00sed]

If it was reroll all to hits theyd be worth it, or the more apropos +1S for a two handed weapon....

 

As it is, I cant see a single reason to take it unless you have to.

Or if there's something else preventing you from getting the +1A already, then take the one re-roll for the same price IMO. Sanguard don't come with pistols, for example. And I've kind of been wanting to try out a Glaive/Storm Shield combo.

 

My VV sergeant is going to have a glaive and storm shield.

 

The rest of his swaud will have spears (count as lightning claws) and storm shields.

 

It is possible the onyl time you would use the glaive over a power weapon.

[JamesI]

If it was reroll all to hits theyd be worth it, or the more apropos +1S for a two handed weapon....

 

As it is, I cant see a single reason to take it unless you have to.

Or if there's something else preventing you from getting the +1A already, then take the one re-roll for the same price IMO. Sanguard don't come with pistols, for example. And I've kind of been wanting to try out a Glaive/Storm Shield combo.

Pretty much this is it. I have a company champion from my honor guard with a really big axe and a shield. May make him the sergeant in my Vanguard, call the axe a glaive and the shield a storm shield. About the only reason to use the Glaive is I want to match it with a storm shield.

[Vilicate]

Isn't the blade just as good on average when you've got two attacks base, and a little better when you've got three attacks?

 

Too bad only three units in the book can them...

[DokSnyder]

Isn't the blade just as good on average when you've got two attacks base, and a little better when you've got three attacks?

 

Too bad only three units in the book can them...

 

 

It's worse than an additional attack everytime, no matter how you turn it.

And regarding the Storm Shield+X discussion: I'd always take a Lightning Claw over a Glaive, especially when being teamed up with Chaplains or such. Rerolling all wounds is better (most of the time) than rerolling one attack die.

+1S would make it so much fun. :cuss

[Jaarl Stormfang]

Actually if you do the math 3 attacks with one re-roll or 4 attacks straight up works out to the same number of hits on average.

 

That's not quite true. It's a tiny difference but if you take into account the chance of getting 4 hits with the power weapon/pistol combo you'll find the average number of hits is every so slightly higher for the power weapon than the glaive. The rest of your post is spot on though and it's really only a pendatic niggle. B)

[Demoulius]

the glaive encarmine beeing master crafted and 2 handed isent the thing that annoys me...its the fact that we dont got stuff like relic blades or artificer armour for our HQ's that does B)

[SamaNagol]

It would be good on a Captain with a Storm Shield.... oh wait.

[Vilicate]

Sorry, not getting this; assume against WS4 and charging:

 

Blade Encarmine: 3 attacks, 1.5 hits, re-rolled 1.5 to .75; total 2.25 hits

 

Power Weapon: 4 attacks, 2 hits

 

Assuming not charging:

 

Blade Encarmine: 2 Attacks, 1 hit, re-rolled 1 to .5; total 1.5 hits

 

Power Weapon: 3 attacks, 1.5 hits

 

Granted, it is always better to roll more dice assuming statistic equality (you could get lucky and roll more hits). Plus, the way that I look at it, the two units that use Glaives Encarmine also don't often have the characters attached to facilitate re-rolls, so I'm liking them. I also suppose that they're worse when you take an entire unit equipped with them into account, as you have to roll each model's attacks separately.

[igotsmeakabob!!]

I don't think your math is right, Vilicate.

How can a rerolled third die equate to more hits than just having a fourth die?

 

edit: You're giving the Blade Encarmine more than 1.0 reroll.

[kollar]

On a similiar discussion, how do you batch roll with your Sanguinary Guard? In fact, do you at all? As you only get to reroll one of the missed attacks, couldn't your opponent claim that you roll each guards attacks separately, as otherwise you could end up hitting with all the attacks of one guy, and then using his rerolls on another character?

 

It's probably an extremely asanine thing to do, but I'm still curious. Do you just batch roll them all, and reroll a maximum of 5 attacks (assuming full squad with all glaives)?