Goddamned Orks

[Aveross]

Well... It was long time since I write there and I come here once again asking for help:

a friend of mine just started playing 40k and he is playing orks but main problem is that he just starts powergaming (he play to win, not to have fun :cuss )

what is not really nice <_< and I just want to teach him a lesson... and there is what list he plays:

Combat Patrol (for 500pts.)

Big Mek w. Warbike, Power Klaw

Nobz (4) Warbikers, Big choppas, Cybork bodies, Boss pole

+ Pain Boy w. Warbike, Cybork body

Boyz (10) + Nob w. Big choppa, Boss Pole

 

and

 

1000pts

Big Mek w. Shokk Attack Gun

Big Mek w. Shokk Attack Gun

Lootas (10)

Deff Dread w. 4 DCCW

Deff Dread w. 4 DCCW

Looted Wagon w. Armour Plates,2 Big Shoota, Boom Gun

Looted Wagon w. Armour Plates,2 Big Shoota, Boom Gun

Looted Wagon w. Armour Plates,2 Big Shoota, Boom Gun

 

any suggestion what to take to counter these lists ?

[BlackSpike]

Well, he's not going to be holding many objectives with either list. Dredds can't score, remember!

Take down his boys mob and he's playing for a draw.

 

Combat Patrol is always a tricky one, and orks do very well at low pts, but their main strength is Boys. 250 pts of 4 Nob Bikers is a bit all-eggs-in-one-basket. Some AP1,2 S8, will ruin their day! (no FNP!)

 

At 1000pts, he has NO scoring units, and lots of light-medium armour, so bring some anti-tank! If you can stop the dredds reaching your lines (by falling back?) they are useless. His boom-wagons need to be kept stunned and they do nothing (Also make sure he rolls for "Don't Press Dat" for each one, each turn).

Fast Flamers will take out his lootas, leaving both his SAG vulnerable. Pod something nasty next to them? Get into CC and even his Orkyness won't save him, and will stop his gunz from firing.

 

Hope this helps.

[The_Crippster]

@Blackspike We don't have drop pods. I guess a heavy-flamer termicide would work but point trading =/

 

 

Cool thing about chaos is we can out-cheese almost anyone with dual lash.

 

Bring either 2 sorcerers, 2 Daemon princes, or 1 daemon prince 1 sorcerer, give them mark of slaanesh and lash of submission. fill the rest with rhinos and troops, and maybe a defiler, vindicator or 2 obliterators. 2 Daemon Princes in 1000 pts (give em wings too) will simply chop through his list.

 

 

Just run around and hang on to at least 1 objective in the 1k game, and make sure you're not always playing annihilation as 2/3rds of games have objectives

 

for the 500 pts Combat Patrol game, not much you can do but bring obliterators, plasma guns or meltas on CSM/PM squads. A vindicator will also serve well. Since he dosn't actually have many power claws, PMs will do pretty well too.

 

Again a single Lash Sorc or Daemon prince will do well against him considering all his bikes will be together.

 

Try

Daemon prince, MoS, Wings, Lash

Vindicator

Fill the rest with CSM squads with plasma guns or PM squads with plasma guns.

[the jeske]

lol that is many things , but it is not a power gamer ork army . how did you manage to lose against that [aka post your list] , because I dont know how a chaos army can not at least draw against a 0 scoring troops army and in the 500 one the nobz are non scoring too.

[BlackSpike]

Ah yes, forgot no Pods. I'm more used to Orks than Chaos. ;)

 

Lash will keep those pesky Nobz away from you, while you shoot them.

As mentioned, high AV vehicles will ruin his day, if he doesn't bring PKs (Although 4 Nobz on the charge with Big Choppas get 16 S7 attacks, so they can rip up Rear Armour 10, esp. if it didn't move.)

[Aveross]

Thanks everybody for suggestions

 

@Jeske

For 1000pts. I had:

DP w. Wings,MoN,Warptime

DP w. Wings,MoS,Lash

PM (7) 2xPlasma,Champ w.PF,Rhino

PM (7) 2xMelta,Champ w.PF,Rhino

Oblits (2)

 

Well... I won this match having PM on my objective (It was take and hold mission) (back then I though that deff dreads can take objectives but he was too far away to take his) but with only 4pms and single wounded oblit while he only lose 3-6 lootas... in his first and second turns he massacred my DPs (MoN didnt make it to the enemy and MoS taked a some lootas with one wound before one from dreads cut him down)and rhino with Boomguns and SAG(while lootas taked care of oblits) so only the PMs with meltas made to them but I rolled poorly (thanks to the chaos gods it made only to fifth turn)

 

and well, Combat Patrol list is the list I'm going to fight against next week

[Spacefrisian]

Why is every one scared of Nob bikerz. Heavy flamers ignore any of their save. No armour no cover and no Feel no pain. (discovered that you actualy must be able to make a save to make use of that skill).

[the jeske]

yes they do get FnP because flamer neither double the T nor are ap1/2 . they still get the inv and they still get the FnP and they are t5 what means a flamer hits them at +5 and they have their classic wound allocation where doing 4 wounds doesnt mean 2 dead nobz .

[Zhukov]

That rule gets misread often: it doesnt allow FnP against attacks which does not allow ANY save. Ap4 ignores THEIR save, but models with a 2+/3+ save do get to save against it.

 

Heavy flamers indeed dont do much as Jeske points out.

 

We do have other things to deal with them though: Obliterators do pretty well when used well. Failing that a combined charge of 2 Berzerker squads and 2 Princes does okay enough too or some other kind of good multiple charge. In CC they are more vulnerable because they dont get a 3+ cover save in CC. Ignoring them is not an option; they will destroy entire parts of your army easily if you do that. Just make a plan of how you are going to deal with it at the start of the game and just point every S8+ at them generally. Every model down is good.

 

Chaos actually fair very well against Orks, mostly because almost all of our troops deal pretty well with Ork Boyz. Obliterators are also hated by Ork players, I can assure you that. They can only reliable kill them in CC; which brings tons of tactical advantages with it. (except thousand sons...). The general chaos list setup is good enough against Orks (Princes, Plagues/berzerkers and Oblits, troops being mechanized in rhinos)

 

However, without sounding offensive I hope, Orks are a very easy army to play with. So if you have 2 below-average players battling against eachother, with one of them being Orks; that guy will have an advantage...

[Antagonis]

Tank shocking the bike nob bikes is always good fun. a rhino will do the trick. Make sure you go 12" or more so he needs a 6 to hit the thing. If he does not get stuck falling back, there is a good chance that he will try to plug the rhino in a fit of pluck, which will stall him another turn.

 

Lash is also savage or orks, since they would have to take a pinning test at the end of the move. In low numbers, ork ld is pretty terrible.

 

against his 1000 point list, a lascannon or two would REALLY ruin his day. Or for that matter a chaos dread, as the dread, as it has better initiative and would squash the ork dreads (I really like the dreads, no one else has any love for them.). if he was a power gamer, he would have been using KFFs :D

[Zeller]

Oblits, Land Raiders, Havocs with 4 meltas, Chosen with 5 meltas, 2 flying princes with warptime.

[Canadin]

If you dont like Nob Biker, Drop Abbadon on the table

 

Yes, I know he is generally not effecient, but at 500 points, just drop him and a random unit of your choice as support, (But realise that this is the ONLY use I would ever recommend abbadon for before playing Apocalypse size games)

 

He is S8, so insta death on everything but the warboss, so even if you get charged, he will get average 7.5 ataks at Init 6 (faster than ANY ork), WS7 means 5 hits, of which 4.1667 wound, and 2.778 take instant death after cybork armor (half the nobz)

 

He is also immune to instant death and has a 4+ invul and 4 wounds. He will litteraly eat all of your friends orks; and be almost unkillable (It will take him a long while to get the necessary 8 power weapon wouds to kill abbadon)

 

He will not be able to be destroyed easily like a vindicator or defiler, and will absolutely annihilate the Orks... For the rest of your 225 points I would take 1 unit of 5 Basic CSM with bolters and a flamer to dispatch the boyz (80 points)

 

then you have a remaining 145 points, which I would spend on 5 Berzerkers, with a champ with a fist (squish more nobz with that, support abbadon)

 

 

So yeah, at 500, my ideal Ork Biker-Hate list:

 

HQ-Abbadon

Troop1- 5 CSM w/Flamer

Troop2- 5 Zerker w/Fist Champion

 

actly, that soudns kinda fun... I might use that next time I have a chance to play 500 points

 

 

At 1000 points

 

If you want a tailored list, heres my suggestion::

 

2 Combi-Predators (2 Laz sponsor, AUtocannon turret) -- The lootas will glance them if lucky, and they will make very short work of the dreads, and put some nice damage on the looted tanks

 

1 Terminator unit, 5 guys, heavy flamer, combi-meltas Possessed Land Raider transport -- The only thing on his list that can reliable hurt the landraider are the Dreads, so just blast those away with your preds, then unload em and eat up his lootas and Meks and Tanks

 

so thats 130x2+240+200ish for termies

 

That leaves you with 300 points to throw onto an HQ and 2 msall troops of your choice (and toss those troops in reserve so that they come on late game and just park on an objective)

 

The Biggest weakness of the Ork codex is its ability to deal with Armour Values of 13 and 14, so just drop the preds and Raider and watch as his guns do nothing while yours destroy his army