Assault vs. Vanguard

[Lord_Ikka]

Hi all, I've got a second-guessing question. I have been putting together my army, and its mainly a gun-line SM list. I wanted a flanking harassing unit that may be able to counter-attack if necessary. So I've got two options at the moment, and I've picked the first, but is it right?

 

Assault Squad (5)

Sarge w/power weapon

Points: 115

Cheap and standard, but all it is going to be used for is harassing enemy units.

 

Vanguard Veteran Squad (5)

3 power weapons, 1 lightning claw, sarge w/powerfist, all with jump packs

Points: 210

Vastly more expensive, probably good at taking out elite units

[Justicar Valius]

Suprise option C: 10 assault marines with 2 flamers and Pfist sarge (with chaplain if you want).

 

Vanguard shouldn't really be taken with hump packs so its an ok choice. Although that unnit won't be able to harrass :lol:

[Koremu]

If you want a harassment unit with a bit of Assault ability, try a Bike Squad with a Power Fist Sergeant.

[thade]

If you're going to take a Vanguard with jump packs, only upgrade them with a single Power Fist (on the sergeant). Otherwise take them with no other upgrades, and use them for precisely the purpose you are using them for. They are *awesome* at back-line/base defense and counter-charging with their huge mobility and startling number of attacks. Taken with few upgrades they cost not much more than a normal assault squad considering their sheer volume of attacks (per unit-area :o )

 

If you want a cheap and cost-effective counter-charging unit, Surprise Option-C is a great one. That pair of flamers is a very nice opener to the vanilla assault team's charge. Again, jump packs are *awesome* for moving around behind your lines and jumping over your Rhino/infantry/mechanized wall to counter whatever is getting too close to your guns.

[Lord_Ikka]

Well, for fluff reasons I can't use flamers- the Fire Keepers only allow their blessed Fire Priests(Chaplains) to use flame as a weapon. I in general don't like vanilla SM assault sqauds, but I just bought the Battleforce and want to use the models.

[thade]

If it's for fluff reasons, I sympathize. =) You'll find the cost of a five man vanilla vanguard (no upgrades save a PF, which comes at a 15 point discount, effectively, on the serg) reasonable, and they're a devastating flying counter-charge unit. Don't ever use Heroic Intervention unless you're just goofing off; it has a tremendous failure rate (if you're not using the BA codex).

[Lord_Ikka]

Even with no other upgrade than a PF, the vangaurd cost 60 more points than a regular assault squad with jump packs, and I think those points might be better used otherwise. I don't see the value unless the vangaurd are in a rhino and then I guess it might be worth it.

[thade]

Vanilla Assault Squad (5-marine): Init 4, 12 attacks, Init 1, 3 PF attacks, on the charge.

Vanilla Vanguard (5-marine): Init 4, 16 attacks, Init 1, 3 PF attacks, on the charge.

 

You're paying for four more attacks, and the global leadership (doesn't matter what model(s) dies, all the models have Ld 9).

 

I don't disagree that Vanguard is far-better employed on the ground and in a transport (I tend to put mine in a LR when I field them), but were I to use them as Jump Infantry that is what I'd do. Might throw one or two Lit Claws in there instead of PFs (kit them out for specifically anti-infantry which is really their strong-suit).

 

Given that it seems you're on a budget, both points and $-wise, I'd say try out the straight up melee assault squad (definitely with a power fist).