mowglie Posted May 14, 2010 Share Posted May 14, 2010 I'd take a slightly broader definition of "long-range", but yeah. I'm not a staunch supporter of the firebase theory, but I do agree you need to be able to reach out and open up transports. I just don't mind if I do half my reaching in my movement phase. Mostly, I'm not a fan of lascannons. They're very expensive anywhere you get them, and the math isn't on your side if you're trying to take out AV13+ at range. Generally autocannons are better at taking out AV10-12 due to weight of fire. So, I think I prefer the TLAC/TLAC dred to the combi-pred. Haven't mathed that though. 5 points difference, 4 TLAC shots vs 2 AC + 2 LC shots, combi-pred can't move and fire. Hm... Thing is, I like versatile stuff. There's nothing I hate more than e.g. having a godhammer full of hammernators vs horde ork. The rifleman dred has quite a narrow range of stuff it can shoot efficiently at. The combi-pred has a slightly wider range, but still often finds nothing that it's particularly good at shooting. (partly because it can't move-and-fire) I love to see a pair/trio of typhoons in a list. They can shoot anything short of AV14, and they can fire HB+2xFrag at hordes on the move. Similarly, I've got a huge soft spot for 3x vindicator. Alas, it's not AP1 (damn you imperial guard with your medusa!) but it can shoot anything. Hordes => boom. MEQ => boom. Light tanks => boom. heavy tanks => boom. When your hammer is 3x vindicator, everything looks like a nail. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/201080-heavy-armor/page/2/#findComment-2399579 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Captain Isaac Posted May 14, 2010 Share Posted May 14, 2010 +1 on that lol Remember, if you field one Vindi, it's going to go boom first turn. So use 2+ combi-pred. Sneak in some fast moving melta and you're golden. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/201080-heavy-armor/page/2/#findComment-2399707 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted May 14, 2010 Share Posted May 14, 2010 So, I think I prefer the TLAC/TLAC dred to the combi-pred. Haven't mathed that though. 5 points difference, 4 TLAC shots vs 2 AC + 2 LC shots, combi-pred can't move and fire. Hm... Rather than math it, why don't you try it out. If not in-game, try just rolling the dice in scenarios about 10-15 times to check it out. Math-hammering it won't give you a realistic result. You don't get decimals that way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/201080-heavy-armor/page/2/#findComment-2400057 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mowglie Posted May 14, 2010 Share Posted May 14, 2010 Rather than math it, why don't you try it out. If not in-game, try just rolling the dice in scenarios about 10-15 times to check it out. Math-hammering it won't give you a realistic result. You don't get decimals that way. Because to get a reasonable sample size, you'd need to do it like 500 times! Tell you what. Since I'm a massive nerd, I'll simulate it. That's the same as rolling the dice a million times :lol: I agree though. The math doesn't tell you everything e.g. you can't put a number on the fact that the rifle dred can move-and-fire, nor on the fact that the combi-pred has a wider selection of targets. Plus you're only considering the specific scenario you math. TLAC/TLAC has a 53% chance to immob or better. Combi-pred has a 56% to immob or better. Based on 1,000,000 iterations. Assuming I got the simulation right, which I didn't necessarily :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/201080-heavy-armor/page/2/#findComment-2400108 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Captain Isaac Posted May 16, 2010 Share Posted May 16, 2010 Statistically, the Pred does better. But when you factor in the Dreadnoughts ability to survive against Tac Marines in combat...... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/201080-heavy-armor/page/2/#findComment-2401312 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlamingDeth Posted May 16, 2010 Share Posted May 16, 2010 Thing is, I like versatile stuff. There's nothing I hate more than e.g. having a godhammer full of hammernators vs horde ork. I love to see a pair/trio of typhoons in a list. They can shoot anything short of AV14, and they can fire HB+2xFrag at hordes on the move. Similarly, I've got a huge soft spot for 3x vindicator. Alas, it's not AP1 (damn you imperial guard with your medusa!) but it can shoot anything. Hordes => boom. MEQ => boom. Light tanks => boom. heavy tanks => boom. When your hammer is 3x vindicator, everything looks like a nail. ;) This, basically. I love speeders and I love vindicators, and have never regretted taking them in a list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/201080-heavy-armor/page/2/#findComment-2401448 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Captain Isaac Posted May 16, 2010 Share Posted May 16, 2010 Speeder+Vindi lists are simple and fun to use :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/201080-heavy-armor/page/2/#findComment-2401577 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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