Venerable and Ironclad

[Giga]

If I'm reading everything correctly, then whatever dread I would field would have to depend on the rest of my army

That goes for every single unit in the entire codex. Synergy is the name of the game with vanilla marines (and, arguably, most other 5th ed codexes).

It's funny, I have lost so many Predators on my back line. Seems like every single opponent I play against has something deep striking, out flanking or whatever. Plus I have managed to charge into opposing vehicles plenty of times myself, as a transported move, assault and consolidation soon takes you across the table.

I dunno. My opponents usually ignore my predator in favor of other targets, such as speeders, transports, land raider with termies inside, 4 plasma command squads, large troop bike squads, etc.

 

The predator rarely gets targeted first, and if it does that's usually great because then the opponent is basically trading a deep striking melta unit (usually expensive or hard to spam) for a cheap tank. The only times my predator got assaulted was in a game against sisters when I didn't know the jumppack sisters had hit and run (otherwise I'd shoot them to death rather then rely on assault to take them out) and when a bunch of genestealers with a broodlord outflanked and I just used my predator as a sacrificial unit.

 

Same could be said about rifleman dreads. Target saturation keeps them alive, rather then their armor.

[chapter master 454]

Well I tend to find my preds being targetted heavily along with my dreads. Then again thats because those 5 units (3 preds and 2 venerables) make up my main attack force. I have been finding that target redunancy is becoming one of my favourite tactics in alot of things. It's the 'Go ahead, pop it, I've got another waiting for you' that tends to unease alot of people, and this often applies to my land raiders, whats more disheartening than that? an opponent who couldn't care less if you target one raider or not!

 

As it stands, I still stand by using traditional DCCW and ranged weapon. I just can't bear taking a fully ranged or fully CC dread because it feels so useless at some point. Heck my favourite army list only has two tacticals because they prove useful and my other decent choices are full (2 venerables, a techmarine, 2 MotF, 3 preds...hmmm fast attack is horrible so may as well get decent troops!).

 

Got a feeling though that I'll be just using the spearhead formations as more of an upgrade than a proper army based idea (ambush with my preds, archeotech my dreads since they get their own repair crew. Mass charge my troops if I can).

 

but thats off topic.

 

Wait, what was the question again? XD

[Zynk Kaladin]

Even I don't remember my original question, but I appreciate the wealth of ideas you guys give. The general plan was just to gather ideas on dreads and any tactics that come with them.

 

I actually want to give techmarines a whirl at some point as well. I don't see how all ranged dreads are useless considering techmarines can hold their own in cc. The way I see it I could field rifle dreads and preds and just let my techies with servo harnesses with tacticals deal with any close combat. Right now I'm in a librarian with sternguard phase, but there's no point in failing to look to the future for more ideas. Perhaps even combining them if it comes to it.

[chapter master 454]

Even I don't remember my original question, but I appreciate the wealth of ideas you guys give. The general plan was just to gather ideas on dreads and any tactics that come with them.

 

I actually want to give techmarines a whirl at some point as well. I don't see how all ranged dreads are useless considering techmarines can hold their own in cc. The way I see it I could field rifle dreads and preds and just let my techies with servo harnesses with tacticals deal with any close combat. Right now I'm in a librarian with sternguard phase, but there's no point in failing to look to the future for more ideas. Perhaps even combining them if it comes to it.

 

I have surprised many a foe with the charge of my techmarine or MotF with power weapon accompyied by their 5 tech servitors. Most dismiss them as a minor threat...yeah, bad choice. My tech servitors have earned themselves respect and future use with they performances, one being a game changer when they passed their mindlock and promptly took down a leman russ demolisher (yes, with only 25pts worth of units, I destroyed a linebreaker!). They also form a nice back-handed attack when the opponent finds out about the servo-arms. I have hammered foolish terminators with them (nothing says 'get lost' than telling him you get to take a power fist attack at them inaddition to your intial attacks!).

 

Oh it does mean my MotF with power weapon gets 2 basic attacks followed by 2 further uber attacks that can insta-kill even a space marine captain. Another note of fame is gun servitors: I roll these dudes with plasma cannons. Yea, they come in at 40-45 points a pop but they don't take up a unit selection chart, form ablative wounds for my MotF with conversion beamer and add serious firepower to him. (trust me, like the techs, these plasma guys have equal claim to fame. Try knocking down 4 terminators and taking a wound off marneus calgar with just one shot of one. Irony was the vindicator did nothing that turn against them!).

 

Comes down to it, techmarines are surprisingly tough and powerful guys to fight along with MotFs. Esspecially if they take a full crew of servitors. Oh and try insta-killing an autarch with a rather ticked off TFC's techmarines plasma pistol (thats TLed), the autarch not only popped a land raider but a prior turn earlier the tech lost his cannon. His rage knew no bounds that day and he took down the autarch and a squad of guardians before finally getting killed. Bladestormed to death, the 2+ certainly was the bane of the eldar!

 

I'm sorry, I disgress on the matter at hand, did I forget to mention he's BACKING UP 2 venerable dreads of mine or at the rear repairing my preds...they are there two-fold reason: repairs and to deal with wise-cracking infantry bog downs. Put it this way though: while he servitors are always at the ready to be fire and forget missles on any threat the dreads can't handle, I am yet to find such a threat (or is that because the dreads seem to be unstoppable XD).

 

Oh just wait until spearhead: my preds become ambush and my dreads become archeotech. Str7 assault cannons anyone? (Oh yeah, cheese cannons with an extra helping of CHEESE!!!). list is very adaptable, ether the preds are ambush with archeotech dreads (which are venerable do the damage they may recieve is minimal, and the repair crew is at the ready) or my preds all get extra armour, Storm bolters and HKs. (just pray I don't give my preds bolstered ruins to hide in, 2+ cover saved pred with a repair crew that repairs on a 2+? Good luck!)

[Zynk Kaladin]

I'm assembling one of my techmarines right now!

 

I never liked the looks of servitors, though. I might just model little robots or man-sized mechs instead ;)

 

Thanks for the ideas. I'll put them to good use considering my chapter is full of engineers so a bunch of techmarines is only proper!

[Giga]

Well I tend to find my preds being targetted heavily along with my dreads. Then again thats because those 5 units (3 preds and 2 venerables) make up my main attack force.

Eh... Well, that explains why they're so often targeted. In my lists, predators and/or dreads usually serve as support elements, and there's stuff like LR-transported terminators, mm/hf speeders, 4 plasma command squads, big bike squads with meltas, etc. zooming around, so the enemy is naturally not very concerned with a couple dreads/predators shooting from the back field.

I just can't bear taking a fully ranged or fully CC dread because it feels so useless at some point.

To the contrary. A traditionally geared dread can supposedly do everything, but in truth it can't really do anything well. So, in effect, you often pay premium points for an all-around walker that, while seemingly useful in every situation, isn't truly useful in any situation as its shooting isn't good enough to have a real effect on the battle, and its close combat capability doesn't go too far beyond tarpitting stuff.

 

Specialized dreadnoughts, on the other hand, are generally both cheap and good at their jobs.

 

The rifleman dread offers highly-reliable, long range, mobile anti-vehicle firepower, with the ability to shower wounds all over MCs and heavy infantry. Being immobilized doesn't hurt it much, if at all, and losing one of its weapons doesn't prevent it from doing its job. It's also quite cheap. Being low on the threat meter means it'll usually survive the entire battle, or at least won't be shot at until later in the game. And since it's an AV12 walker, it can still serve as an effective tarpit.

 

The ironclad dread (and all these new fancy close combat dreads in the BA dex) is also quite cheap, armored well enough and fast enough to give it a shot at getting into close combat, has two DCCWs so it wont lose its combat capability after a single weapon destroyed roll, and is a great target saturation unit (almost as high on the threat meter as a vindicator, I'd say). Its height is such that it can gain cover saves by moving + running behind a rhino wall. The BA dreads are even better as they actually get some real close combat weapons AND stats worthy of an ancient marine hero.

[Captain Idaho]

Balanced single heavy weapon and DCCW Dreads might not be perfect but are good enough to be a threat somewhere in the game. If it wasn't a threat opponents wouldn't kill it so often. :)

 

Being able to kill things isn't it's only role though. Being able to hold up an enemy assault, cause a few wounds in a heroic suicide charge to save it's brethren, add it's heavy weapon fire to support other elements of the army etc, these things are useful beyond the ability to lay a maximum efficiency killing ability.

 

But that is a niche all of it's own. There are places for more dedicated Dreadnoughts in an army, depending on your preference and army selection.

[Slick Jimmy]

I find that my favorite tactic for dreads is to take 4 basic dreads with minimal upgrades. Depending on who I fight they can lead or follow my Razorbacks, befitting from being obscured while still being able to rain an assload of fire on my their targets. with the combined fire of 4 assault cannons, 9 storm bolters, and 5 twin linked heavy bolters I can pretty well pick which squads my opponent gets to remove from the table, and all this for between 700-750 points. I have even considered giving all four dreads twin linked HBs as well just because I think it would be fun, and I HATE it when my assault cannons miss more than they hit... but rending usually makes up for this.

 

What I am getting at is that Iron Clads and Venerable dreads are frivolous and the only time I have used venerable on mine is to fill out points. I rarely to never let a dread get into CC unsupported by either an assault squad or a power fist toting combat squad. I'm gonna have to go with 454 on this and say that a well balanced fire power/CC dread is much more effective than running dual Close Combat weapons or Dual Auto Cannons.