How do you deal with AV 14?

[Zerib]

This is not a troll or a temper tantrum post. I am looking for tactics, units or ideas on how we Sister players can deal with AV 14 or anything out side of our 12" meltas. To me the only thing I can think of when dealing with tanks is our melta guns, however when they are outside of 12", have special rules against meltas or something similar I find myself in a conundrum. Seraphim's are a possible solution with their inferno pistols however being that close to a tank does not make me feel great. There is the tried and true exorcist but honestly shooting at AV 14 seems a waste when they are much better at taking out other things on the board. Inducted guardsman provide a possible solution but you are shelling out lots of points for a las cannon. GK are another idea where in you can get Land Raiders but again I question the point cost. In all of this tactics are a huge factor; denying line of sight and use of smoke being the two major ones. I am interested in seeing how you all deal with this.

[Chengar Qordath]

Inferno pistols are melta weapons too, so they don't get bonus dice vs. anything invulnerable to the melta rule.

 

As you mentioned, Exorcists and Land Raiders can work, but in both cases the odds of actually scoring a kill are way too low.

 

Imperium armies in general cannot reliably kill AV 14 at long range, so at least the Inquisition is in good company there. That said, there are a couple of options for killing AV 14 at close range that you've missed:

 

1: Repentia and other eviscerator-equipped units. They need to be carefully shepherded to make sure they attack the target you want and not something else, but that many Eviscerator hits is bound to do some damage unless the dice gods are being exceptionally malicious. To a lesser extent, Eviscerators in other Sister squads can serve the same function, especially if they get boosted up by Hand of the Emperor as well. Eviscerators are not a good option for Monoliths, but everyone knows to go for Phase out rather than waste time trying to kill those.

 

2: Penitent Engines and Dreadnoughts. Both have close combat attacks that hit at strength 10.

 

3: Orbital Bombardment. They can be tricky to use and are not perfectly reliable, but if you're smart and lucky you can hit enemy vehicles with either Strength 10 AP 1 Ordnance or Strength 8 AP 3 Ordnance and 2d6 for penetration. Either of those can do unpleasant things to vehicles.

[WarriorFish]

I lost a Land Raider to my brother's OB once, but that's more down to luck (or lack thereof on my part) ;) AV14 isn't something you can deal with effectively at range (unless you're some stinky xenos) so as Chengar said it'll never be a cake walk.

 

Allying in some Guard can give you some much needed long range AT, but Lascannons aren't great at popping AV14 either unless you get spam happy. Exos are wasted against AV14 and should be targeting other vehicles/MCs unless you're desperate or have nothing better to shoot, so for SoB its not great.

 

SoB have never been a long range army anyway, so what little you can do would be diluting your strengths. The best way for us to deal with armour is short range with our trusty meltas, the alternatives are so poor in comparison they can cause you problems.

 

Out of curiosity, why are you looking for a way to take out AV14 at longer range? Are you having problems with Land Raiders getting in your lines?

[number6]

Just load up on meltas! There's no reason you can't. Sisters are cheap and effective, even when mounted up. The amount of meltas you can pack into your army is disgusting. ;) Don't bother mixing in flamers with your Sisters units. Just take 2x meltas every time. Let your immolators do the flamin'. Otherwise, just torrent of fire and smart mech play should be good enough to thin hordes if that's what you're worried about by not taking flamers.

[ArmouredWing]

Exorcists and lots of them would have to me my first answer... and their shots are never wasted against AV14.

 

Time for a bit of root cause analysis here, i.e. what is the problem you're facing and what does this problem achieve? Speaking from the point of someone that regularly plays against LR's the problem is that they are a transport that can virtually always deliver a unit to target, so the problem isn't the LR as much as the embarked unit. So when I direct fire against a LR it's not with the intention of destroying it, if that does happen then it's an added bonus but all I want is to immobilise to stop it from moving and delivering it's cargo.

 

With that in mind your exorcists are still a good option for acheiving this within the first couple of turns. Meltaguns are ok but should be used as a means for nailing them if your long ranged weaponary fails to do the business. When it comes down to it weight of dice are key to success and your best chance is through the use of the D6 exorcist launcher because if you get a lucky salvo you can do a lot of damage through the multiple hits.

[Zerib]

The main reason I am asking this WarriorFish is that in the 'Ard Boys I expect many Land Raider armies. BA being at the top of that list as well with their storm ravens. There are other armies as well but you get the idea.

[Inquisitor Fox]

I'm rather fond of the two twin-linked lascannons on my Inquisitor Lady's Land Raider transport... :rolleyes: Other than that I'd have to echo the advice of those above. The thing I always try to keep in mind when I play are the following questions:

 

1. "What are the real mission objectives?"

2. "What do I have to do to achieve those mission objectives?"

3. either "How will that unit keep me from achieving those objectives?" or "What does this unit need to do to make it so I achieve those objectives?"

 

Keeping my mind constantly on the goals I need to achieve to complete the scenario victoriously helps me a lot. It also helps keep me from falling into the trap of "Kill everything on the table" which isn't often the best route to victory ;)

[WarriorFish]

My Guard deals with Land Raiders mostly by sending the couple of melta squads forward to do the popping, and others to take care of the occupants - and that's not even spamming melta like the trend is. Considering how much better at it Sisters are at melting faces off I'll echo number6's comment: if you're worried about Land Raiders then get some serious melta going in your lists.

 

Get a good number of melta going and you're going to get through smoke too. The hard part is being able to deal with the disembarking passengers before they cause trouble, it requires good planning and more than a little luck. I wouldn't worry about Storm Ravens though, even with potential cover saves they're Exorcist bait assuming many people bother to convert one up.

[Justicar Valius]

Or they come out with the GK *crosses fingers*

 

Exorcits for other stuff like stormravens (same as a melta gun vs a stormraven but more shots and longer range). Melta for AV14. Ignore the monolith and force phase out. I think that covers the SoB anti tank regime.

[Zerib]

Thanks for all the input guys.

[ValourousHeart]

I have to say 3 exorcists... as was mention above...

In games where I have faced 2 monoliths, I have never failed to blow one up on turn one.

That usually puts them on such a hesitant foot that I just ignore the second.

 

Also with AV14 you don't have to kill it to get the result you want or need.

A LR that is immobilized is a over-priced, under performing Dev squad.

A LRC and a LRR that are immobilized are less threatening than a tactical squad and have a very limited threat area.

Also any unit that was in said transport isn't going to getting anywhere very quickly.

And since that unit was probably fairly expensive point wise... hence the need for a pimp ride... will be less likely to earn its points back.

[Hellbreaker]

I have to say 3 exorcists... as was mention above...

In games where I have faced 2 monoliths, I have never failed to blow one up on turn one.

Monoliths are glanced to death, justin beiber hits puberty and trains are coming early. The apocalypse is nigh.

But seriously, how do you blow a monolith up if you can only glance it? (S8) Because, you know, you can't.

 

Edit: And then we realise it's an ap1 shot. Well then, what little value my post had just vanished.

 

Cheers!

[ArmouredWing]

I have to say 3 exorcists... as was mention above...

In games where I have faced 2 monoliths, I have never failed to blow one up on turn one.

Monoliths are glanced to death, justin beiber hits puberty and trains are coming early. The apocalypse is nigh.

But seriously, how do you blow a monolith up if you can only glance it? (S8) Because, you know, you can't.

 

Edit: And then we realise it's an ap1 shot. Well then, what little value my post had just vanished.

 

Cheers!

Yeah, the AV1 makes a lot of difference especially when you've multiple shots.

[amuro_ray]

i guess another one guy screaming "use exorcist" won't make a difference now :lol:

[Judanas]

i guess another one guy screaming "use exorcist" won't make a difference now :P

 

Sure it does. It makes people even more aware of our lack of other useful Heavy Support. Also how awesome Exorcists are.

[Zerib]

Thanks again for all the info. I placed 4th and just missed the top 3 at the 'Ard Boys with my sisters. In the end my last opponent ran 3 raiders, 2 vendicators and vulcan. Ultimately I just had too many tanks for them 3 points and couldn't match up to vulcan, terminators and av 13/14. However by the end he only had two rhinos left that hid most of the game and I had 3 tanks left.

[amuro_ray]

Thanks again for all the info. I placed 4th and just missed the top 3 at the 'Ard Boys with my sisters. In the end my last opponent ran 3 raiders, 2 vendicators and vulcan. Ultimately I just had too many tanks for them 3 points and couldn't match up to vulcan, terminators and av 13/14. However by the end he only had two rhinos left that hid most of the game and I had 3 tanks left.

 

that's one achievement for SOB ;)