having a very hard time against Tau

[PKAwolf]

my friend has been running the table on me with his Tau. and frankly its really starting to hurt my feelings.

his list stays the same but it gives me loads of trouble. he swoops in and out with everything and and is always out of arms reach. hes harder to get close to than an octopus doing the Heisman pose. how would you counter this:

 

commander in a battle suit deep striking

2 crisis suits deep striking

2 units pathfinders (with develfish) marker lighting everything like a 4 y/o with a box of crayons

2 squads of Firewarriors hopping in the devilfish and doing the "I can unload behind this thing and shot you under it while you try to run around it lol" game

2 units of stealth suits with drones infiltrating (this is his bread and butter, but I just cant put enough hurt on it)

2 hammer heads

broadside unit with drones

sometime some kroot to fluff up the points

we usually play 1750pts

 

Ive tried a couple different lists with ill success, even when playing to the objective. my current attempts are with everything fast in my case. so far Ive learned; that 2 rune priests dropping hurricane and tempest hurt his jumpers except he uses the sensor spines on his tanks so thats a wash. lone wolves are fun but not effective against him. and Im supprised that the overload of rail cannons dont impact the game as much as the overload of S5 shots and drones (from the tanks) he puts infront of me to stall my assaults.

So, how would you counter?

[Wispy]

give wolf scouts a try? outflanking and coming on to his board edge and assaulting him is pretty scary. maybe he gets wise and moves everything more center table, but that's to your advantage as well. there's also the well placed first turn infiltrate.

 

 

I've yet to meet something fast enough to stay out of reach of thunderwolf cavalry. Put it at the back, let his rail guns worry about other stuff in front and then race it forward.

[liberty790]

PKAwolf, I've got to say, I love you analogies!

 

On to the main point, there are a couple players around here that play very similar lists minus the kroot. I've yet to lose against them so I will offer up what I have learned. Since I am a herald deathwolf player I always have my TWC and TW Lord w/15x fenrisian wolves backed up with 3xgrey hunters w/rhinos and 3x long fangs squads. Two of the long fang squads are 3xML 2xLC, the other is a 5xhvy bolter squad. The grey hunters sit back and form the first layer, the 24" layer. Anything that infiltrates, deep strikes, or loses its way into a 24" zone of my home area is subject to bolter fire and probably an assault. The HB long fangs form the 36" layer, anything wandering its way into 36" is subject to the HBs. The ML/LC long fangs form the 48" layer and the instant kill shooters, I think you get the picture here. The TWC/TWL are the alpha strike with the wolves for the multi-assault. If you dont have TWC or wolf models you can fill in the blank with something along with your play style. I put the longfangs in terrain if possible, but I always make sure they all have overlapping fields of fire with the grey hunters and can cover each other in the instance of a lucky deepstrike. Get your TWL/TWC and wolves (or insert your unit here) into assault as soon as possible, and always try to multi-assault against the tau. If you can get his guys into assault then all that fancy shooting stuff the tau have is moot. But you have to deploy smart, layers are what work for me. Its an adaptable principle, so its works with more than the TWC type lists. defense in depth. defensor fortis 101.

[Stormshrug]

give wolf scouts a try? outflanking and coming on to his board edge and assaulting him is pretty scary. maybe he gets wise and moves everything more center table, but that's to your advantage as well. there's also the well placed first turn infiltrate.

 

 

I've yet to meet something fast enough to stay out of reach of thunderwolf cavalry. Put it at the back, let his rail guns worry about other stuff in front and then race it forward.

 

Wolf Scouts all the way - they're easily our best Elites choice for this match. Lone Wolves will never reach him and are too easy to shoot apart, and Dreadnoughts are too vulnerable to S10 Rail Gun shots (and too slow) to be much use. Field two packs of Outflanking Wolf Scouts, if you really want to sock him in the gut. It's very unlikely that he'll be able to avoid their reach, even with his high mobility, and he won't usually be able to shoot them before they get a chance to assault. If he favors cheesy tactics, he may add a crapton of Kroot (cheap forces to literally block table edges, which technically works but is incalculably stupid in any terms except RAW) to his army to prevent this tactic, but it doesn't look like that's on the table (hurr hurr) at the moment. In any case, Wolf Scouts make sitting on the back edge either VERY costly or outright suicidal, and they counter the directionally-sensitive "Fish of Fury" maneuver involving a pair of skimmers and 2 combat squads. If he centers his units to avoid this, then he's moving towards you. Great!

 

As a general note for Tau, you need to pin them in close combat so that your army can make its advance. You *can* run into a firestorm without first silencing their deadliest guns, but personally, I wouldn't. As such, you'll probably want to move your main force forward conservatively (use cover and avoid LoS) until your Scouts arrive, at which point you leap forward to trap his forces in your jaws.

 

A pack of Bikers could also do the trick, holding his powerful weapons down until you can reach them. Their turbo-boost cover save is invaluable against plasma and rail guns. In this case, you'll want to bum-rush everything from the start, and hope that either your forward forces will tie him up or he'll shoot at them (and only them), letting your other elements reach combat. TWC could fulfill the same vanguard function, particularly if you gave one a Storm Shield to eat Rail Gun rounds (since he'll be getting relatively few shots per turn if he's using Solid Shot).

 

As to the Stealth Teams - they're hard to catch, but Bikers, TWC, or Skyclaws can do it relatively comfortably (and Scouts can just outmaneuver them with Outflank), and when you do catch them, they're only slightly stronger than regular Tau in close combat. Power Weapons (such as the two you can put on Wolf Scout packs) are rather nice for taking down Crisis Suits, Stealthsuits, and particularly Broadsides.

 

Some people like Drop Pods for closing distance in matches like this, but personally, I do not. With a drop pod, you either end up far enough away that you just could have walked, or so close that you're within the effective double-tap range of all of his weapons. While Rhinos will be quite useful in this match, be sure not to disembark too early and get shot apart before you can assault - let the Rhino eat shots for the much more valuable troops it houses, even if it means waiting a little longer to disembark.

 

As a final note, an HQ with a Bike, Thunderwolf, or Saga of the Hunter will outperform one that has to footslog or even transport-hop in this match, in all likelihood.

 

-Stormshrug

[Requiem of the Wolf]

If you don't use the TWC with the idea above,you can use Wolf Scouts and choosers of the slain from your rune priests to limit his ability to infiltrate. What I would do,and your mileage might vary a bit,but this is one of those times when a bit from an ally army works very very nicely. I use a Inquisitor lord,base of 45 points. I give him a 30 pt Psycannon -36" Str 6 AP 4 Heavy 3 / 18" Str 6 AP 4 Assault 3 weapon. It also ignores invulnerable saves. Give him 3 gun servitors with heavy bolters for 25 pts a peice,a Mystic for 6 pts and an Acolyte for 8 pts. Spend 2 more points for an Auspex and then place him towards the center of where you don't want them deep striking. Now if he Deep strikes or Infiltrates within 4D6 inches of the Inquisitor,the entire squad gets to take a free shot at each deep striking squad right after it lands. You could also if points are tight,drop the 3 gun servitors,put in another mystic and keep a long fang squad within 12 inches of the inquisitor and fire with that squad instead but only for Deep strike not Infiltrate. This is from the Daemon hunters codex

 

That is my generic response for excessive deep strikers. If you want something purely Space wolves, then I would recommend using a couple squads of Wolf Scouts with 4 sniper rifles/1 ML or 1 HB. Use their infiltrate to set them up with crossing lines of fire.

[Stormshrug]

That is my generic response for excessive deep strikers. If you want something purely Space wolves, then I would recommend using a couple squads of Wolf Scouts with 4 sniper rifles/1 ML or 1 HB. Use their infiltrate to set them up with crossing lines of fire.

 

Personally, I'm not too hot on using our Scouts as snipers, particularly in a shooting match. Sniper Rifles don't take advantage of the low toughness of Tau units, for starters. Pinning is nice when it works, but remember that Tau have a decent armor save even on Fire Warriors, and the really dangerous units have a 3+ save, so you're going to be relying really heavily on those Rends to get wounds through. Meanwhile, they'll be shooting back considerably more shots, and without the option to get Camo Cloaks for our Scouts to make Cover Saves of 3+ easy to get, the Scouts will probably have to use their 4+ save against most of those shots (barring all the plasma, against which they'll be using whatever unbuffed cover saves you can get).

 

Even with ten sniper Scouts shooting at a squad of Stealthsuits, you're looking at just a bit more than 1 wound per turn (66% to hit * 50% to wound * 33% unsaved, + Rends) on average, WITH the Rends, and from that, they've got a pretty fair chance to pass the ensuing morale check. And that's even assuming you can SEE them. Obviously, you'll fare better against Fire Warriors (same as Stealthsuits, but 50% unsaved instead), but they'll be wounding your Scouts at roughly the same rate (50% to hit * 66% to wound * 50% unsaved) and cost considerably less per model...

 

Ten Scouts (with two power weapons) in close combat with a squad of Stealthsuits will probably hold them there until they break (and have a 50%+ chance of being wiped out) or are just wiped out from taking wounds. Heck, they could probably hold them in close combat and win most of the time even if equipped with sniper rifles...

 

TL;DR : Melee the crap out of those Tau. And don't forget that sneaking up from behind is a good way to deliver a punch to the kidney.

 

-Stormshrug

[NealSmith]

I'd go with tank-killing Wolf Scouts and a droppod with Blood Claws in it. That should give him enough to think about while the rest of your force closes.

[wolf2.3]

Don,t forget that a Tau's initiative is crap. Jaws is your friend here, and maybe some living lightning to take out those devilfish. Happy hunting ;)

[Stormbrow II]

Don,t forget that a Tau's initiative is crap. Jaws is your friend here, and maybe some living lightning to take out those devilfish. Happy hunting :ermm:

Tau have no psychic defence either so you can have free reign with any Rune Priests that show up barring failed tests. Jaws isn't that great as the Crisis suits are immune to it (being Jump Infantry) but you can decimate Broadsides with it.

 

I haven't seen your list but I'll pass comment on his:

 

Ninja-suits *and* a Ninja Commander? They're a poor choice - you should have a counter unit waiting for these :cusstards to drop because you will absolutely devour them in combat. Fast units like TWC and Bikes are a good choice usually.

 

In order to make his shooting less painful you should take out his Pathfinders as soon as possible - I'm guessing that you have been on the receiving end of Rhinos getting no cover saves and BS 5 Hammerheads right? Getting rid of his 'Finders gives you a chance to save your tanks. Even forcing them to take Ld tests is good enough half of the time. Literally. Ld. 7 fails half of it's tests. Punish him for this.

 

Tau are terrified of units getting close - a Dread in a Pod with HF getting into his face and killing his Finders on 2's will give him a headache that he *must* deal with early on. Anything fast is usually good but again you need to get rid of his Markers before you head forward - if you turbo a unit of bikes they won't have a 3+ cover save due to the lights and Plasma at close range hurts. The same goes for TWC - Crisis suits are a pain for these guys as they can get the range to fire lots of shots at them before bouncing out of retaliatory distance.

 

For his vehicles, all you have to do is stop them shooting for the first few turns while you get your assault troops and vehicles into position.

 

He's placing his FW in the open? Really? Blow them away after you've dealt with his Markers. Don't bother getting into combat with them if you can avoid it - bolters make a mess of them and with Ld 7 they're just as prone to running away as Finders are. It's always funny tank-shocking his crap out of the way. Don't be afraid to tank-shock his crap off an objective and set them up for a flaming.

 

Looking at his list again I reckon it's the Markers accuracy that is putting the hurt down because it really boosts the Tau otherwise mediocre shooting. Get rid of them fast and then focus on the Suits.

 

Let us know how your next game goes.

[Decoy]

I admit that I was skimming, so someone may have said this, but try a Rune Priest, using the Chooser of the Slain to shut down 36" of his potential Infiltrate area. Also, as was said, Drop Pods wreak havoc on Tau. Pod behind a Hammerhead with two or three Meltas, and that thing's... not going to be looking good.

[Requiem of the Wolf]

I admit that I was skimming, so someone may have said this, but try a Rune Priest, using the Chooser of the Slain to shut down 36" of his potential Infiltrate area. Also, as was said, Drop Pods wreak havoc on Tau. Pod behind a Hammerhead with two or three Meltas, and that thing's... not going to be looking good.

Well as I believe I had said in my post,I haven't encountered Tau before so my views were from a generic standpoint. It sounds like there are those with much more experience then me in facing them so their advice is probably worth far more then mine.

[elrik bloodmoon]

i agree with decoy. get right in his face out flank with scouts and drop rite on top of him with drop pods , keep some long fangs in cover to give you support. and use grey hunters and bloodclaws with a wolf preist to clean up the mess. cant go wrong i havent lost yet against them.