Deathwing - Potential New Player

[ellis_esquire]

Do DW terminators have +5 invulnerable? Tell me its not just SM termies?

[breng77]

They do Get a 5++, but that is all they get as far a an Invul save at range.

[Ozybonza]

A good use of Deathwing assault:

 

Scout move bikes with melta + attack bike, DWA in 2 squads first turn. As long as you haven't plonked them in front of a huge gunline or a deathstar unit, enough termies/bikes should survive that they can dish out some serious face punching next turn. Preferably, one of the terminator squads has got an apothacary.

 

 

By the way - no, you definitely don't have to DWA if you don't want to - unlike SM with their drop pod rule - they do have to DS first turn.

[Tanhausen]

A good use of Deathwing assault:

 

Scout move bikes with melta + attack bike, DWA in 2 squads first turn. As long as you haven't plonked them in front of a huge gunline or a deathstar unit, enough termies/bikes should survive that they can dish out some serious face punching next turn. Preferably, one of the terminator squads has got an apothacary.

 

Actually, that advice in current metagame is suicide.

 

Move the bikes to drop terminators close by to the enemy... so the next turn you can be shot at and then assaulted? Even if its not a gunline or deathstar, you opponent will obviously concentrate on those (at least) 550 points (3 bikes, 2x5 termins, not a single upgrade).

 

Doesn't matter who you face, they are going to obliterate you due to sheer numbers.

 

Unless you mean droping far away (over 15 inches), in which case the selected units don't have enough firepower to deliver pain.

 

Now sending 2 bikes squads with special weapon and 3 terminator squads with heavy weapons (and that now means some 1000 points) will be more effective, specially if popping LR or heavy tanks with metlas or plasmas and mopping up with the terminators and their HF or AC.

 

What has your experience been Ozybonza?

[ellis_esquire]

Can you take 6 bikes with 4 special weapons? or is it 6 bikes with just 2 special weapons - im not clear from he DA codex as it says up to 2 can replace with etc - but is that of the original 3 bikers or including the upt to 6!

[farseerixirvost]

Can you take 6 bikes with 4 special weapons? or is it 6 bikes with just 2 special weapons - im not clear from he DA codex as it says up to 2 can replace with etc - but is that of the original 3 bikers or including the upt to 6!

 

2 per squad whether squad is 3 or 6 men strong.

 

The only way to get 4 specials with 6 bikes is to take 2 separate units of 3.

[Ozybonza]

What has your experience been Ozybonza?

 

The tactic I outlined above has worked extremely well for me on numerous occasions. With the teleport homers, you can get near perfect positioning - on a board with adequate, 5th edition terrain anyway (i.e. plenty that blocks LOS). You should be able to get the 2 squads plus bikes to only be facing off against a portion of their army - don't drive straight up in front of their whole force. This ensures that only a couple of their units can react next turn, the rest of their army will have nothing to charge/shoot at. If required, you can usually use the bikes to tie up a unit in CC on turn 1, waiting for the termies to come to the rescue on turn 2. Apothacaries (prefferably 2 - either termy + bike or termy + regular) are a big help with this.

 

Using these tactics, or at least threatening to use these tactics, has kept my DA competative with newer, harder codex's like IG, including two tournaments. I came 14th out of 100 in one and my mate, using my army and tactics, came about 30th.

[Tanhausen]

Those are pretty decent results.

 

I ask because in my experience, nowadays most of the lists either corner up in deployment or castle up in ruins.

 

Throwing 3 bikes and 10 terminators in a 30 cm radius actually gives your opponent a target on a line of all the board.

 

Think about it: 30 cm in the middle and 60 cm (most common range of MEQ weapons) on each side, thats 150 cm and the board is 180.

 

If you concentrate in a corner, maybe only half the enemy side will be able to target... that is, without moving at all.

 

In my area's metagame that wouldn't work. 3 long fangs are bound to hurt you, same with vindicators, defilers or simply Leman tooled up for swarm. Don't remember the name, but one of the configs allows you to loose some 20 HB... thats 60 shots of S5 which will certainly put A LOT of pain.

 

Not to talk of thunderwolf cavalry, or bloodcrushers or any of the monstruous creatures (Daemon Princes, Skullcrusher, Trigons, Mawglocs and similar).

 

I'm sure all this discussion helps the concept we have of our nice little toys :lol:

[Ozybonza]

Those are pretty decent results.

 

I ask because in my experience, nowadays most of the lists either corner up in deployment or castle up in ruins.

 

Throwing 3 bikes and 10 terminators in a 30 cm radius actually gives your opponent a target on a line of all the board.

 

Think about it: 30 cm in the middle and 60 cm (most common range of MEQ weapons) on each side, thats 150 cm and the board is 180.

 

If you concentrate in a corner, maybe only half the enemy side will be able to target... that is, without moving at all.

 

In my area's metagame that wouldn't work. 3 long fangs are bound to hurt you, same with vindicators, defilers or simply Leman tooled up for swarm. Don't remember the name, but one of the configs allows you to loose some 20 HB... thats 60 shots of S5 which will certainly put A LOT of pain.

 

Not to talk of thunderwolf cavalry, or bloodcrushers or any of the monstruous creatures (Daemon Princes, Skullcrusher, Trigons, Mawglocs and similar).

 

I'm sure all this discussion helps the concept we have of our nice little toys :P

 

 

All good points - but remember you should be able to either melta the scary tanks, or tie the long fangs up in CC etc with bikes/attack bike, on turn 1 - essentially, use the bikes to either tie up or destroy whatever is the biggest threat to your terminators. Against a hard CC army, you wouldn't use this tactic - instad, keep everything on foot, bunched up together, ensuring you can counter charge against anything they throw at you.

[Tanhausen]

Fair enough.

 

Just a little if: no way 3 bikes are going to effectively deal with 1 squad of long fangs. They will probably be in cover (do we get grenades? Too much time playing DW :P) and countercharge so its easy to get tarpitted and counter-assaulted by some CC unit.

[Ozybonza]

Fair enough.

 

Just a little if: no way 3 bikes are going to effectively deal with 1 squad of long fangs. They will probably be in cover (do we get grenades? Too much time playing DW :P) and countercharge so its easy to get tarpitted and counter-assaulted by some CC unit.

 

That's the point - the bikes don't destroy the long fangs - they tie them up until the termies can charge.

 

When I was talking about bikes "destroying" a threat to the terminators, I meant using Melta to kill vindicators and the like.

[breng77]

or bikes do get grenades, however, you would be taking dangerous terrain tests, and if they are in upper levels of a ruin you cannot assault them at all. (though with a couple of flamers you can often do a good amount of damage and possibly force a LD test.