Our worst HH fears

[daboarder]

I bring sad knews my friends. Apparently our first heresy book is coming soon and is titled Signus Prime. So what is the tradgedy I hear you say? The author of this upcoming book is HE WHO SHALL NOT BE NAMED! Yep it is now official BL really really hates us for some lamentable reason.

[A D-B]

I bring sad knews my friends. Apparently our first heresy book is coming soon and is titled Signus Prime. So what is the tradgedy I hear you say? The author of this upcoming book is HE WHO SHALL NOT BE NAMED! Yep it is now official BL really really hates us for some lamentable reason.

 

Just for the record:

 

Although it's one of those major battles that we always talk about at meetings, I don't think it'll be "coming soon", and I doubt it'll be be called Signus Prime. You're looking at at least 4-5 books before it; as far as I know, it's still being planned as something Jim would like to do.

[daboarder]

OH WOW! dude Im a little embarassed that someone from BL read this, Um look could you do me a favour and tell Jim that I can deal with him writing our Heresy novels provided he takes the same appraoch to it that he did to flight of the eisenstien. That book was top notch and it is dissapointing that from a plot perspective the BA omnibus and Co just doesn't measure up the same way. So I guess I'll give him one more chance.

[Espada Azul]

...That still doesn't give many of the BA players here a whole lot of confidence A-D-B.

[SamaNagol]

At least Goto isn't writing it.

[Jorre]

er... I might be having a brain fart here but is Jim ment to be James ??

[daboarder]

jim is short for james, like jimmy hendrix

[ancient god]

Yep, James Swallow.

 

Not too keen on him writing more BA stuff either. I really don't think he's nailing the BA feel but I've uttered my opinion on that before.

 

Edit: Ninja'd! :sweat:

[Walter Payton]

To be honest, I think all the Swallow hate is just a little bit premature.

 

Sure, he did a poor job with the Blood Angel's novels, so what? If you get around the fluff mistakes and the whole 'mm, we're very trusting'' thing, they are not actually that badly written (certainly not compared to some other BL output). They are bad Blood Angels books-he did a fine job with the Death Guard. Its just that he went in over his head, trying to tackle a first founding chapter straight off, and he upset people. The preview for HH Nemesis, by the way, actually looks quite good.

 

My only anti-Swallow complaint is that sometimes his novels don't seem grimdark enough, especially the Metal Space Octopus in Black Tide.

 

The guy is still finding his feet. Faith and Fire was very good, as was Flight.

[igotsmeakabob!!]

Yep, James Swallow.

 

Not too keen on him writing more BA stuff either. I really don't think he's nailing the BA feel but I've uttered my opinion on that before.

 

Edit: Ninja'd! :sweat:

So has.. well, most everyone else. But I guess a guy has to work.

[ancient god]

Yep, James Swallow.

 

Not too keen on him writing more BA stuff either. I really don't think he's nailing the BA feel but I've uttered my opinion on that before.

 

Edit: Ninja'd! ;)

So has.. well, most everyone else. But I guess a guy has to work.

 

Sure! I don't think he's a bad writer, just that he hasn't shown much of a hand for Blood Angels. Let's see if he does better next time.

[Twin .44]

As a writer, I think both James Swallow and myself have the same problem which is fleshing out a story. While reading Black Tide, I was incredibly hooked. It kept me glued to the pages as things constantly happened. That was until the undersea voyage. It bored the hell out of me and after quite a few pages, I just stopped reading. It seems like these writers have to write out a certain amount of pages per book, so sometimes they get through the story too fast and have to expand something out. That was my main problem with the latest book and I have no idea how it finished, and frankly I don't care. But with the HH novels, I don't think it's that big of a deal since they give them this huge amount of stuff to work on from the start, at least I think.

 

That's my issue with reading something by James Swallow.

[A D-B]

But with the HH novels, I don't think it's that big of a deal since they give them this huge amount of stuff to work on from the start, at least I think.

 

I can probably help qualify that, but I'm not entirely sure what you mean. HH Novels aren't planned that differently to any other novel, except for the (admittedly huge) fact that we all share ideas and discuss storylines in meetings. We're not really given anything beforehand, exactly.

[Twin .44]

But with the HH novels, I don't think it's that big of a deal since they give them this huge amount of stuff to work on from the start, at least I think.

 

I can probably help qualify that, but I'm not entirely sure what you mean. HH Novels aren't planned that differently to any other novel, except for the (admittedly huge) fact that we all share ideas and discuss storylines in meetings. We're not really given anything beforehand, exactly.

 

Well what I mean by that is a general basis of what happened etc etc. Like when/if the books get written about the assault on terra, we all know basically what happened. Case in point the eternity gate, teleportation on Horus' Battle Barge, that kind of stuff right is what I'm talkign about. Originally it was "Horus turned to chaos" and the first three books explained how it ended up that way, same with the Istvaan Masacre. We know it happened, but we never really read how which is where these books come in.

 

Then the current BA books were kind of scratch built from the ground up with the only real basis of the BA chapter itself.

 

Unless of course I'm totally wrong.

[Vel'Cona]

Swallow has a lot of work to do to convince me he's worthy of writing about the greatest Astartes primarch. He definitely hasn't earned the right like Abnett did with Horus or Mcneill did with Fulgrim. To further the issue, Sanguinius is among the most beloved of the primarchs, and certainly one of the most well known. If he were to be improperly characterized, or treated with anything less than the most masterful dignity and grandeur, it would be a severe blow (at least where I'm concerned) to the reputation of the Blood Angels.

 

I'm not saying he's not up to the task; the guy can obviously write interesting settings and compelling characters. What he needs to do here is learn his audience. Even A-D-B, who I would argue is highly self-deprecating based on his blog, takes the time to learn his audience a bit and cater his style to their interests and likes. Helsreach is an excellent example of the ability to write outside one's comfort zone, but still make the content compelling by doing proper research. The Deus series feel more like Swallow already had a plan for the Blood Angels (and successors), and it had nothing to do with the background that was already established.

[Iron Man I]

All in all, I didnt mind the Blood Angel books. Yes there were some ":cuss?!?!" fluff mistakes, but I dont ever pick up a BL book thinking its the next Shakesperian epic. Could the first two book have been better? Yes. Did the next two get better? Yes. I'll take the chance on the HH book. Hopefully Mr Swallow has read some of the more construtive comments about his work and will take those to heed. He has the potential to write a great BA book and for the record I did really enjoy Flight.

[shatter]

Many people thought Swallow blows. Myself included.

 

After Flight', I felt he was a new writer.

 

I'm looking forward to more.

[ancient god]

Did he write Flight of the Eisenstein after he wrote the third and fourth BA books? I thought they were younger.

[Burningblood]

I honestly haven't read any of the Horus Heresy books.

And honestly, it surprises the hell out of me that the narrative has taken so long. Is the civil war taking place over centuries or something? This isn't Dune, people. I'm not sure if I even want to read them. I'm getting my degree in English Lit (cue hoity toity voice), so of course I'm an avid reader, but I like narratives to come to a conclusion in a manner that makes sense and is timely! I've got stuff to do! I've all but given up on Lost for this reason. Great show. Great acting, writing. Get to the damn end!

Ok, let me take a breath. I've had too much coffee. Sorry.

What I'm getting at is that I wonder what all the fuss is. We all know how the story ends.

[Kobrakei]

We all know how the story ends

 

Surely in this case it's all about the journey? The siege of Terra and the Emperor/Horus fight is the main part of the story, but for many of the modern day chapters, their whole ethos in the 41st millennium is due to the events their parent leigon went through in the Heresy, and more books looking into that side of the history are always going to be worth reading.

 

 

Also, I believe the Heresy lasted around 7 years or so, not including the Scouring? Can anyone shed more insight?

 

Kobrakei

[Brother_Kaelgrim]

I have yet to read any of Swallow's work, but I doubt anything can match the sheer atrocity of C.S. Goto. Especially when Goto KNOWS what he is doing and does it to troll.

 

......damn he is going to write a Horus Heresy book somewhere isn't he.

[Burningblood]

Who is Goto?

[Brother Chris]

If I was Swallow, I'd be very annoyed not to get given the job of writing the BA Horus Heresy book (I'm assuming Abnett will get the actual book where Horus kills Sanguinius). He certainly isn't a bad writier. His books are page turners and have some memorable imagery in them. We all have a slightly different take on the Blood Angels so it is hard to say definitively that he is 'wrong'. On this forum whenever some-one says they prefer their devastators in red helmets, the usual response is 'hey it's your army', but when Swallow puts a blue helmet on a heavy weapons marine it's a crime against literature.

I have grave reservations about Swallow's over use of BA's being tricked by Chaos, and his characterisation of the top brass is way off how they seem in the game, but I have bought the books and they have added depth to my views on the chapter.

I don't think much in the Black Library is going to be featuring on English literature courses of the future. Eisenhorn maybe. Gaunt's Ghosts are better than most Sharpes, not as good as most Flashmans, but somewhere in that league. Horus Heresy series no, I don't think so. Abnett's two are fine time-passers, but no more.

If you really want to point the finger, whatever editor commissioned C S Goto to novelise the dialogue on the Dawn of War game must shoulder most of the blame:

'We are the Emperor's Chosen' said the space marine. 'Walk softly and cary a big gun.' warned his commander. 'For the Emperor!' they shouted as they seized the glowing objective in the ground.

Swallow has never fallen so far.

[shatter]

I honestly haven't read any of the Horus Heresy books.

And honestly, it surprises the hell out of me that the narrative has taken so long. Is the civil war taking place over centuries or something? This isn't Dune, people. I'm not sure if I even want to read them. I'm getting my degree in English Lit (cue hoity toity voice), so of course I'm an avid reader, but I like narratives to come to a conclusion in a manner that makes sense and is timely! I've got stuff to do! I've all but given up on Lost for this reason. Great show. Great acting, writing. Get to the damn end!

Ok, let me take a breath. I've had too much coffee. Sorry.

What I'm getting at is that I wonder what all the fuss is. We all know how the story ends.

 

You've got stuff to do? And watched Lost? Deliberately?

 

*suffers terminal logic error*

 

*kicks own plug*

[sonofblood]

To be honest, after reading At Gaius Point and in the process of Helsreach. I am more then willing to advocate and admit that I would like for ADB to write any future Blood Angel novels HH or otherwise. I felt in Gaius Point he really got the feel for what it is like to succumb to the Rage, and for how the Angels and Successors struggle to keep their flaws a secret.