Our worst HH fears

[Droofus]

We all know how the story ends

Surely in this case it's all about the journey?

 

Quoted for truth!

 

I was going to use the Star Wars prequels as an example of why you're right and then realized that I'd only be hurting the argument. :D So basically - RIGHT ON!

[Walter Payton]

Gaunt's Ghosts are better than most Sharpes, not as good as most Flashmans, but somewhere in that league.

 

Sharpes are vastly superior to the Gaunt's Ghosts novels, and Flashman is in a completely different league.

 

But that's just my opinion :D

 

On Swallow, I think that his writing has definetely improved.

 

My main issue with him is the way he sticks stuff in that doesn't fit with the Wh40k universe, like the strike cruiser-hiding flying mirror and Zellik's Archeohort in Black Tide. It just didn't feel right for 40k for me. Star Wars, Dune or Star Trek, maybe, but in the world of 40k, nah.

[Isryion]

I read his work before I read the fluff of the BA.

 

I thought the short story was his best work in the omnibus, and I should read Flight of the Einstein, but the BA books don't qualify as good in any area of the craft of writing for me.

[Julius Firefocht]

To be honest, after reading At Gaius Point and in the process of Helsreach. I am more then willing to advocate and admit that I would like for ADB to write any future Blood Angel novels HH or otherwise. I felt in Gaius Point he really got the feel for what it is like to succumb to the Rage, and for how the Angels and Successors struggle to keep their flaws a secret.

 

Seconded, my brother. A D-B for the Horus Heresy Blood Angel novels! The BA novels in the 40K timeline are already more or less ruined by James Swallow, IMO. The least we can hope for is for A D-B to write us a good BA novel for the Horus Heresy timeline.

[Burningblood]

I honestly haven't read any of the Horus Heresy books.

And honestly, it surprises the hell out of me that the narrative has taken so long. Is the civil war taking place over centuries or something? This isn't Dune, people. I'm not sure if I even want to read them. I'm getting my degree in English Lit (cue hoity toity voice), so of course I'm an avid reader, but I like narratives to come to a conclusion in a manner that makes sense and is timely! I've got stuff to do! I've all but given up on Lost for this reason. Great show. Great acting, writing. Get to the damn end!

Ok, let me take a breath. I've had too much coffee. Sorry.

What I'm getting at is that I wonder what all the fuss is. We all know how the story ends.

 

You've got stuff to do? And watched Lost? Deliberately?

 

*suffers terminal logic error*

 

*kicks own plug*

 

LOL!

[Kobrakei]

Also, I think Signus Prime isn't the most interesting story to be told about the Angels in the Heresy. You could get a much more interesting book in my opinion telling the story of the legion after the death of Sanguinius and dealing with the first afflictions of the Rage, looking at the differing thoughts of various legion personalities and having to exist without their father for the first time.

[Angel of the Emperor]

I have to say as Mr. Swallow is getting better with each book he writes I become less afraid of his portrayal of the BA. I will actually be looking forward to this new book whenever it is coming out.

[Demoulius]

If you really want to point the finger, whatever editor commissioned C S Goto to novelise the dialogue on the Dawn of War game must shoulder most of the blame:

'We are the Emperor's Chosen' said the space marine. 'Walk softly and cary a big gun.' warned his commander. 'For the Emperor!' they shouted as they seized the glowing objective in the ground.

Swallow has never fallen so far.

 

hah thats the things that they say in the game :)

 

 

...

 

...

 

wait they say that in the novel as well? :huh: :o :wacko: ;)

[Brother Chris]

Opening Dawn of War in Blood Ravens omnibus at random now got p 146 'Knowledge is power,' he muttered to himself, reciting the Chapters's motto as if it were his own. 'Guard it well.'

I feel tainted now. Back in the 'never read again' vault.

 

No denying that Sharpe and Flashman are better series than BL equivalents, but they are written and improve over a very long time, plus the BL writers have the advantage of being able to read them and take their best bits. so (in my humble...) Sabbat Martyr is possibly better the 'Sharpe's Gold' and slightly behind 'Royal Flash', without denying the overall contention that Cornwell and Fraser are better writers than the BL stable.

[Cyrox]

Keep an open mind chaps

 

FotE was a great read, and he might nail his HH novel

 

I admit I havent read the Blood Angel novels he wrote, and I know the general feeling toward them, but you never know

 

Fingers crossed eh :ermm:

[A D-B]

To be honest, after reading At Gaius Point and in the process of Helsreach. I am more then willing to advocate and admit that I would like for ADB to write any future Blood Angel novels HH or otherwise. I felt in Gaius Point he really got the feel for what it is like to succumb to the Rage, and for how the Angels and Successors struggle to keep their flaws a secret.

 

Seconded, my brother. A D-B for the Horus Heresy Blood Angel novels! The BA novels in the 40K timeline are already more or less ruined by James Swallow, IMO. The least we can hope for is for A D-B to write us a good BA novel for the Horus Heresy timeline.

 

I've got Word Bearers and Night Lords duties, guys n' gals. (At least so far.)

 

While I'd have sold my immortal soul to get one of the remaining Big Canon Stories in the Horus Heresy, especially one about the Blood Angels - who I've never been shy in saying I loved - it was made clear from the very beginning that certain Legions/stories were reserved for certain authors. In the same sense, I'm sure they'd ask me first if someone else wanted to do the Night Lords, or they'd ask Graham if someone else wanted to do the Ultramarines.

 

I've got a lot of love for Flight of the Eisenstein, too. Couple Jim's last HH novel with the fact Signus Prime is pretty much the defining Blood Angel event of the Horus Heresy (pre-Terra), and I think it's fair to say you lot are in safe hands.

[Brother_Dan'l]

I've got to say that while I hate Swallow's characterization of the Blood Angels as the universe's most gullible and willfully foolish boobs in the earlier books, I rather enjoyed Black Tide. Why? Because in my head I decided he was writing about some alternate universe's Blood Angels. Possibly one in which their Emperor was smoking something way funky when he created their Sanguinius. After that I didn't mind the inconsistencies and other foolishness. :P

 

G. M. Fraser is well beyond anything we've yet to see from BL. But those Commissar Whatszname book are pretty good for both comedy and adventure. Though it's been 15+ years since I read any of the Flashman books, so I could be totally wrong.

[Pcm979]

While I'd have sold my immortal soul to get one of the remaining Big Canon Stories in the Horus Heresy, especially one about the Blood Angels - who I've never been shy in saying I loved - it was made clear from the very beginning that certain Legions/stories were reserved for certain authors. In the same sense, I'm sure they'd ask me first if someone else wanted to do the Night Lords, or they'd ask Graham if someone else wanted to do the Ultramarines.

That's entirely fair, but still cold comfort to those who feel that their favorite chapter is in poor hands for the forseeable future. Note that I mean that in general, not specifically in this case.

 

Re. the Word Bearers, I take it that means that Anthony Reynolds is finished with them, for now at least?

 

I've got a lot of love for Flight of the Eisenstein, too. Couple Jim's last HH novel with the fact Signus Prime is pretty much the defining Blood Angel event of the Horus Heresy (pre-Terra), and I think it's fair to say you lot are in safe hands.

Well, that's definately promising. Your opinion means quite a bit to me and quite a few of us I can't speak for.

[daboarder]

I unfortunately just cant get the image of sanguinius fighting with a certain well known spear out of my head, or the fact that I have a horrible feeling that at some point he is going to be tricked by an ordinary seeming human that turns out to be Horus in disguise all the while being compeletely tacticly trounced by some angry bloodthirster until the very end where it all miraculously goes together.

 

Now I have always said that FotE was a brilliant book and Swallow showed he can write a hell of a story, but that shining example makes the books red fury and black tide all the more dissapointing, not to mention the original omnibus.

[A D-B]

While I'd have sold my immortal soul to get one of the remaining Big Canon Stories in the Horus Heresy, especially one about the Blood Angels - who I've never been shy in saying I loved - it was made clear from the very beginning that certain Legions/stories were reserved for certain authors. In the same sense, I'm sure they'd ask me first if someone else wanted to do the Night Lords, or they'd ask Graham if someone else wanted to do the Ultramarines.

That's entirely fair, but still cold comfort to those who feel that their favorite chapter is in poor hands for the forseeable future. Note that I mean that in general, not specifically in this case.

 

Re. the Word Bearers, I take it that means that Anthony Reynolds is finished with them, for now at least?

 

I don't know. The Heresy series is invitation-only - kinda separate from the normal novel lines - and I've got zero idea what Anthony Reynolds is up to at the moment. I heard he was actually keen on doing non-WB stuff in the future, though I'm not sure what that'll be.

[Israfel]

I unfortunately just cant get the image of sanguinius fighting with a certain well known spear out of my head, or the fact that I have a horrible feeling that at some point he is going to be tricked by an ordinary seeming human that turns out to be Horus in disguise all the while being compeletely tacticly trounced by some angry bloodthirster until the very end where it all miraculously goes together.

 

Now I have always said that FotE was a brilliant book and Swallow showed he can write a hell of a story, but that shining example makes the books red fury and black tide all the more dissapointing, not to mention the original omnibus.

 

Well said!

[Imperialis_Dominatus]

I have yet to read any of Swallow's work, but I doubt anything can match the sheer atrocity of C.S. Goto. Especially when Goto KNOWS what he is doing and does it to troll.

 

......damn he is going to write a Horus Heresy book somewhere isn't he.

 

What Legions haven't we heard much about? Hmm.

 

Oh no. Those poor Raven Guard.

 

Keep an open mind chaps

 

In the vein of Dawn of War quotes... FORTRESS! GATES! UNBARRED! UNGUARDED!

[Isryion]

Keep an open mind chaps

 

Sorry, but when I've read several hundred pages of someone's work that I think is terrible, I don't feel I have a closed mind when I say that I'm not going to bother reading the HH BA books unless the reviews are outstanding.

[Koyote]

I've got Word Bearers and Night Lords duties, guys n' gals. (At least so far.)

 

While I'd have sold my immortal soul to get one of the remaining Big Canon Stories in the Horus Heresy, especially one about the Blood Angels - who I've never been shy in saying I loved - it was made clear from the very beginning that certain Legions/stories were reserved for certain authors. In the same sense, I'm sure they'd ask me first if someone else wanted to do the Night Lords, or they'd ask Graham if someone else wanted to do the Ultramarines.

 

I've got a lot of love for Flight of the Eisenstein, too. Couple Jim's last HH novel with the fact Signus Prime is pretty much the defining Blood Angel event of the Horus Heresy (pre-Terra), and I think it's fair to say you lot are in safe hands.

Swallow writing Blood Angels for the HH series is the exact opposite of what fans want. The reaction to Swallow's BA novels have been overwhelmingly negative -particularly among Blood Angels players. I can't understand why the Black Library doesn't understand this. What are they thinking?!?! ;)

 

YOU on the other hand would would rock that title! After reading Cadian Blood and the first few chapters of Soul Hunters I posted on a message board that this is the guy that should write Blood Angels for HH. And even though the Blood Angels were antagonists in Soul Hunters, you gave them more love and respect in those few pages than Swallow did in three entire novels. I say this in spite of the fact that you treated the Blood Angels a bit like red shirts in the ambush aboard the Covenant of Blood... :cuss

 

With this said, their final clash was epic. :tu:

[Pcm979]

A negative reaction doesn't count for peanuts unless it's tied to bad sales. It's as simple as that.

[A D-B]

I say this in spite of the fact that you treated the Blood Angels a bit like red shirts in the ambush aboard the Covenant of Blood... ;)

 

Sorrrrt of.

 

Now, I'm a bit biased. My favourite Chapter is the Flesh Tearers, and I've never been shy about admitting I love the Blood Angels and their successors. Love, love, love.

 

But, Re: the end of Soul Hunter:

 

 

In a fight with equal numbers, the Night Lords had the advantage of it being their ship, and they were ready in an ambush. And even then:

 

The Night Lord dreadnought died.

1 of First Claw died.

2 of First Claw were crippled, unable to walk after the fight.

Talos himself was badly wounded.

 

 

So, realistically, that seems pretty fair to me.

[Isryion]

A negative reaction doesn't count for peanuts unless it's tied to bad sales. It's as simple as that.

 

That's true, but I'd argue that there's very little word of mouth that actually adds to the BA books sales. Most people, myself included, bought it due to the subject matter (Blood Angels, or even space marines) and in spite of recommendation! Now I'm giving that same negative recommendation.

 

So, there is probably a very low expectation of what sales could be. IE, the Blood Angels subject matter simply accounts for X sales. Swallow accounts for X-1y, which still is greater than their estimate, apparently X-2y. Have somebody that can write a bit better and you might be selling more than you could simply by having BA be the subject matter. They might actually have :gasp: a good story.

[Vilicate]

I felt the same way as A-D-B (I guess that's the point, really) regarding the final fight aboard the CoB. The BA were certainly not pushovers in that conflict. But if they were flesh tearers instead, I think it would have been a different story. :D

 

BTW, thank you Aaron for taking the time to post on the forums here and on Warseer. It's really great to see someone connected with writing some of the 40k "cannon" background actually take the time to post with the fans regarding their work, rather than just writing in their blog. Also, I don't say this about many of the BL authors, but you're definitely a hit around these parts. I'll be grabbing pretty much anything you put out, just like McNeil and Abnett. I'm definitely looking forward to next NL installment.

[Koyote]

But, Re: the end of Soul Hunter:

 

 

In a fight with equal numbers, the Night Lords had the advantage of it being their ship, and they were ready in an ambush. And even then:

 

The Night Lord dreadnought died.

1 of First Claw died.

2 of First Claw were crippled, unable to walk after the fight.

Talos himself was badly wounded.

 

 

So, realistically, that seems pretty fair to me.

And this is why I distinguished the ambush from the final clash and described the final clash as epic. :D

 

Soul Hunter was a great read. Perhaps the best depiction of a traitor legion outside the HH series. Above all, I really appreciated the sophisticated portrayal of the Night Lords and their servants. Like all authors you used archetypes, but unlike many Black Library authors you didn't use them as a crutch. Instead you added wonderful little details and gave them your own spin. It is exactly the sort of treatment I would like to see the Blood Angels receive.

[Pcm979]

So, there is probably a very low expectation of what sales could be. IE, the Blood Angels subject matter simply accounts for X sales. Swallow accounts for X-1y, which still is greater than their estimate, apparently X-2y. Have somebody that can write a bit better and you might be selling more than you could simply by having BA be the subject matter. They might actually have :gasp: a good story.

So it's official that the BA books under-performed? I haven't read that anywhere.