Chaos Army with Daemonhunters?

[Morkai_Blade]

I've battled this guy a couple times and hes a bastard player (yes a BASTARD!! player) he bought a new army on ebay a daemonhunters army and he told me that he was gonna convert them to chaos. i was like ok sounds cool i was expecting him to follow the actual Chaos Space Marine Codex but intstead he he kept all of the daemonhunters rules and said that they were the army of a chaos god that destroyed the other chaos gods somethin from the Horus Heresy Book series. and i battled him with my space wolves and when i got into colse combat with my wolf guard terminators and wolf lord he rolled his dice and said that his captain i beleive it was ignores both armour saves AND invulnerable saves and that just doesnt sound right

 

Please someone tell me that at least ONE thing is wrong with this army!!

 

 

"FOR RUSS AND THE ALL-FATHER!!!

[Grand Master Caloth]

Grey Knight close combat does NOT ignore Invul. Running it as grey knights with that kind of background, while not real fluffy, is ok, but their Grand Master's NFW works as a force weapon, and psycannons and incinerators DO ignore invul, but none of the above ignore invul in CC. To be honest, i would report him to the Red Shirts who run your store, cause from the sounds of it, he's completely unsportsmanlike and cheats

[Lord Kharloth]

Tell him this:

 

"Ok then, I'll let you use DH in your CSM army, as long as I can field imperial guard in my army."

 

Nice cheap meatshield infantry, along with some of the best tanks and artillery in the game, combined with your wolves= cannot beat unless blessed by the dice gods.

 

Otherwise, he has commuted the ultimate fluff sin, and must be purged with fire and steel.

[Morkai_Blade]

OH MY GOD THANK YOU!!!

It was a home battle and sadly we dont have a store near where i live unless u wanna sit in a car till ya hit Ithaca

But He took out my 5 man wolf guard terminators AND my wolf lord and there Land Raider Crusader Transport in like 3 turns with his Grand Master

and i thought it was bull i asked him about it and he told me that he "forgot his codex at home" so ya i have refused to play him since

[ntgcleaner]

keep refusing, and let everyone he plays know about his cheap tactics. A grand master's (NOT A BROTHER CAPTAIN! - that's about a 80 point difference!) Nemesis force weapon gives him +2 strength, it is a power weapon and also a force weapon. The force weapon part is what you have to read up on. I don't have my rule book on hand, but that force weapon might lead him to believe it ignored invulnerable saves. Also, bone stock, he can not take out a Land Raider.

[White Russian]

I think the guy played totally legit except the ignore invulnerable save in CC part.

It is perfectly legal in the game to make up fluff as bizarre as you want as long as you put it all according to a codex. From what I understand your friend did not ally his CSM with DH, but used DH "as" chaos, in that case nothing in the rules themselves is broken.

 

Possible LR destruction causes:

Thunder Hammers in a squad.

Hammerhand spell with a decent amount of luck.

Melta bomb on someone without terminator armor.

 

Invulnerable Saves:

Some DH ranged weaponry indeed ignores invulnerable saves.

Nothing however out of that weaponry has AP3 or less, so a MEQ should be safe no matter what.

Nothing a DH can ignore invulnerable saves in close combat save the Callidus Assassin.

 

Your buddy could have been mistaken about the invulnerable save part since NFW rules are rather tricky for persons who are not familiar with them all too well, otherwise I see nothing else from the information provided that could be taken as cheating.

[Inquisitor =D=]

Chaos Daemonhunters... I'd hit em. BLASPHEMER!!!

 

Beside that, No! Just no. A GM cannot ignore invulnerable saves in close-combat and for the most part cant realiably kill a Land Raider. (well unless he's using the Hammerhand Psychic Power, 4x Str-8 attacks is pretty sick)

 

As for the Force Weapon; Counts as a powerweapon in close combat, also If the weapon deals an unsaved wound in close combat and the wounded model survives. Then the wielding model is allowed to make a psychic test, if the test is passed then the wounded model is "Killed Outright".

 

So... Grand Master(GM) wounds Bloodthirster but does not kill it > GM then takes Psychic Test, test is passed > Bloodthirster's head explodes because Daemonhunter Force weapons IGNORE the Eternal Warrior Rule > GM then proceeds to Disco like a fool. :D

 

Sometimes it helps to be "outdated." Hope that helps ya.

 

=]D[=

[Validar]

and for the most part cant realiably kill a Land Raider. (well unless he's using the Hammerhand Psychic Power, 4x Str-8 attacks is pretty sick)

 

still, you got to hit it first and even then, anything from 1-5 is useless for you, only 6 will get you that glancing hit. And on a land raider, you need quite a few of those to wreck it (it is impossible to wreck it in one turn, no matter how good you roll). So realiabel? Nah :D (pretty wild against most other tanks, though)

[Uncle Mel]

Well I think we're getting a bit caried away here. Th BC ignoring invul is incorrect but that's the only fault i could find.

 

The guy using DH as radical DH (that's what it sounds like) is Ok by me, even if he use a standard DH army with GK. As long as he follows the ruleset of one codex, it's all right.

 

Mel

[Souba]

Beside that, No! Just no. A GM cannot ignore invulnerable saves in close-combat and for the most part cant realiably kill a Land Raider. (well unless he's using the Hammerhand Psychic Power, 4x Str-8 attacks is pretty sick)

actually they are 6 attacks, +1 for the assault and +1 for the additional close combat weapon that hammerhand brings. so 50% more ownage :(

[number6]

I wouldn't play anybody that didn't have their codex on hand. It's disrespectful in the extreme to insist that your opponent just trust everything you say. You must have your documentation on hand to back up your army's rules. That's not just common sense, that's common decency and proper gaming etiquette. The game is complicated enough that even veteran players -- and sometimes especially veteran players (myself included :o ) -- make mistakes based on prior knowledge of previous codexes and game editions.

 

Have your rules or you don't get to play. It's just that simple.

[Inquisitor =D=]

I wouldn't play anybody that didn't have their codex on hand. It's disrespectful in the extreme to insist that your opponent just trust everything you say. You must have your documentation on hand to back up your army's rules. That's not just common sense, that's common decency and proper gaming etiquette. The game is complicated enough that even veteran players -- and sometimes especially veteran players (myself included ^_^ ) -- make mistakes based on prior knowledge of previous codexes and game editions.

 

Have your rules or you don't get to play. It's just that simple.

 

True that No.6!

 

I have that happen all the time with other gamesets that are now 4 edditions past when I started... Need that rulebook onhand... otherwise you end up with a player claiming that ALL of his banshees have ranged powerweapons. Lol...

[Morkai_Blade]

Yeah He keeps calling askin if i want to play sometime an im like if i have the time sure(in my mind im like NO!!!) but i swear the guy cheats me and my friend even teamed up against him. My Space Wolves and his Salamanders versus Orks cause he bought the battle for Black Reach Box 6 times and he somehow completely wiped Both armies out. He doesnt even paint his orks there all neutral colored lol.

[Aidoneus]

I dunno. I've known quite a few people who, from your description, are like this guy. It's not necessarily that they willfully cheat, it's that they don't pay especially close attention to the rules. They get really excited about things, and confuse one rule for another, and don't remember correctly. This is the sort of person who you need to watch like a hawk, not necessarily in a hostile way, just to make sure he does things right. Having a codex on hand is essential, so you can double-check things. In my experience, once you point something out, he will most likely accept that and play according to the rule.

 

As far as the chaos daemonhunters goes, that sounds 100% legit. Rule-wise, he's just playing Daemonhunters according to the codex. How he models/paints them, and the background fluff he gives them, have no bearing on the gameplay. Hell, I've thought of doing similar things with my GKs from time to time.

 

My suggestion is to give the guy another chance. Be very clear that he needs to bring a codex with him, and try to bone up on the rules yourself before the game. Be friendly, not confrontational. When he's doing something you think is wrong, just say you're unsure and want to look it up for your own reference. If he's wrong, correct him in a polite and amiable way. Unless he gets mad in response to this, you should both be able to have an enjoyable game, and you'll certainly both learn a thing or two about the rules.

[Uncle Mel]

That's kinda what i thought as well