Dante vs Astorath

[Aron Draith]

Dante and Astorath have similar points cost and similar stats. They are also my 2 faviroute characters, Fluff wise, Model wise and points wise (I dont like uber killy HQs but I want a one with decent stats and abilities. Any way which is your faviroute in a game, Dante, Astorath, Both or someone else altogether. Could do with some help as I am a bit of a noob and this is my first post of bolter and chainsword, please could I have some reasons and examples for why you like one or the other please. Ok thanks

[JamesI]

Welcome!

 

Personally, I prefer Astorath. He fights in close at strength 6 and makes it more likely each of your units has furious charge.

 

Dante is nice, higher initiative an extra attack and hit and run. But unless I wanted to use a Sanguinary Guard heavy force, I don't think I'd use Dante.

[Soups]

I prefer Dante. Usually runs with an HG or Sanguinary Guard. I prefer him to Astorath, since he causes a wound before the game starts. Melta pistols are sweet.

 

Astorath is great and all, I just wouldn't want to give my opponent my benefits, however slim the chance of playing against other BA players.

[Morticon]

A lot depends on your list.

James accurately gave you an idea of what works with Dante.

Id def. consider a SG squad in a Dante list.

Id also consider a double melta RAS squad list.

 

Basically, if you're playing Dante, make sure you use the abilities that you are paying for.

 

Astorath is also great if you only play with one priest in your army and you have a lot of models/units.

 

What does your list look like at the mo?

[DynamicType]

Personally, I think it depends on how you set up the rest of your army. If you are taking a Sanguinary Priest for each of your squads, Astorath's ability to make your units succumb to The Red Thirst isn't really as necessary.

 

Sure you get S6 attacks with Astorath but since it's applied from the weapon and it's a 2H'er so you're not going to get an extra attack.

 

Dante is outright scary w/10-man RAS and a Sanguinary Priest attached. On the charge, which you'll get often from Hit and Run, he alone will get 6 S5 attacks at WS6 and the chance that your opponents WS will be brought to 1, not to mention all the attacks from your RAS and Priest. He also gives applies a ton of negative modifiers to one of your enemies independent characters.

[Aron Draith]

My general army I run is

1 10 man tactical sqaud

2 10 man assault sqauds

9 death company in a rhino with chaplain

5 sanguinary guard

2 baal predators

2 dreadnoughts

2 Priests

A librarian but will get rid of some things to get a anmed character.

I was wondering if it is a good idea to have dante with only 1 sanguinary guard unit in my army and do you think that Astoraths ability to give you more death company is a bad thing for his Shadow of the Primarch power.

[Isryion]

I was wondering if it is a good idea to have dante with only 1 sanguinary guard unit in my army and do you think that Astoraths ability to give you more death company is a bad thing for his Shadow of the Primarch power.

 

Yes, there's not a lot of synergy between the two abilities and by emphasizing one, you obviously limit the other. Taking multiple squads of death company means that you aren't going to have as many squads that have red thirst. If you're trying to maximize his Shadow of the Primarch power, you want as many units with the Red Thirst Rule as possible.

 

One interesting build that a buddy of mine considered was if you take Astrorath and are taking as many Red Thirst units as possible, then you don't take SP with the Elite slots. Even though SP won't be redundant (you're still going to fail some Red Thirst Rolls), there's still more synergy by taking Elite Chaplains over SP. I thought it was an interesting point.

 

EDIT: As for your list, my astrorath list will probably be light on vehicles and DC (though Furiosos with the Red Thirst would be good), instead taking a lot assault troops and somthing else, like VV.

[Aron Draith]

Ok thanks for the help so far guys, I like the idea of having normal marines followed by 2 specialised units, the Sanguinary Guard and Death Company create a light and dark effect, alot of people say these 2 units are underpowered and do you think having both in 1 list handicaps me to much. Finaly I am thinking of using both Dante and Astorath in my army but would this be a bit overkill and do they work well together or is this idea going to be a complete disaster.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I much prefer Astorath over Dante. Neither has Eternal Warrior & Astorath is much more of a potent offensive threat. Dante has some cool rules for sure but he is kind of meh in close combat. Astorath gives you half your squads the Red Thirst. The S6 power axe that forces opponents to reroll invulnerable saves is a keeper. I would also like to mention Lemartes... He is a squad character for the Death Company & cannot be targeted in close combat. In my mind Astorath & Lemartes are by far the best two special characters plus they are both senior members of the Death Company.

 

0b :lol:

[SamaNagol]

Astorath would be nice with 2 units of VV, 2 Furiosos in Pods and several units in Razorbacks for support

[Scorcher505]

To be effective with Blood Angels you need tactics. Knowing where to strike and when is very important. Dante makes this easy for you, and it is why he is better. I will use IG as an example opponent. BA are assault based, and IG are the definition of gun line, with those artillery shells blasting the :lol: out of you before you can do your thing. Sure Lucifer pattern engines help here, but Dante with a squad of SG can drop right in there and smoke a target's back armor, and the you have your opponent surrounded, Dante and SG in the back with the rest advancing in front. No where to run but into more meltas and raging BA thirsty for blood

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Okay so Dante & his squad can drop down & pop maybe one or two guard tanks if they have a squadron. First not every game is going to be versus mech IG. Don't get me wrong meltas are great but Dante & his unit of Sanguinary Guard are not really a heavy hitter in close combat versus stuff like Blood Crushers & Thunderwolves unless you are willing to invest the points in a Sanguinary Priest to attach with them. I really love the Sanguinary Guard, awesome looking minis, but I am having some problems making them work for me in my style of list. I would rather field Astorath & Lemartes leading monsters on the charge. When I look at any list that includes a fair amount of jump infantry the first thing I look for are stormravens & they make Dante fairly redundant in my opinon. Astorath is much more of a beast in close combat, Lemartes even moreso. I think Dante certainly has some very cool rules but his lack of close combat killiness is a weakness. To be bad he does not have Eternal Warrior & a S5 power axe. The high initiative & extra wound are neat but 50% of the time he will die to a power fist just like any other average Marine. Same thing goes for Astorath but not Lemartes since you can't target our high Chaplain. We have enough meltas to take out tanks so I am always more concerned about killing big monsters which Astorath is better at doing by far.

 

0b <_<

[shatter]

Aye, I dont think there are a lot of lists that'd prefer Dante to Astorath. JP precision can work for a 10+priest vanguard if you combat squad and HI with the half that doesn't include him n' priest. Can be a way of getting an attached priest to support the combat squad by ensuring it's in 6". It will ensure no mishap on anything. Ok. Can still get shot to buggery unless you're using it to place DS-ers behind terrain perfectly.

His higher I is great. one more wound and two more attacks (at higher I) make him better versus infantry but not heavy infantry(/4++ or better and/or high T models) nor CC versus medium armor. His death mask is pretty useful over a game. but not exactly reliable or specifically quantifiable.

His only big advantage imo is HnR, but you need a big unit that he has to stick with through thick and thin for it to pay off in any frequent sense. Such as a fat DC or mass priests and a 10 man.

 

And scoring sanguard.

[Jorre]

Okay so Dante & his squad can drop down & pop maybe one or two guard tanks if they have a squadron. First not every game is going to be versus mech IG. Don't get me wrong meltas are great but Dante & his unit of Sanguinary Guard are not really a heavy hitter in close combat versus stuff like Blood Crushers & Thunderwolves unless you are willing to invest the points in a Sanguinary Priest to attach with them. I really love the Sanguinary Guard, awesome looking minis, but I am having some problems making them work for me in my style of list. I would rather field Astorath & Lemartes leading monsters on the charge. When I look at any list that includes a fair amount of jump infantry the first thing I look for are stormravens & they make Dante fairly redundant in my opinon. Astorath is much more of a beast in close combat, Lemartes even moreso. I think Dante certainly has some very cool rules but his lack of close combat killiness is a weakness. To be bad he does not have Eternal Warrior & a S5 power axe. The high initiative & extra wound are neat but 50% of the time he will die to a power fist just like any other average Marine. Same thing goes for Astorath but not Lemartes since you can't target our high Chaplain. We have enough meltas to take out tanks so I am always more concerned about killing big monsters which Astorath is better at doing by far.

 

0b :cuss

 

 

I use Dante in a 10 man RAS with 2 meltas and a priest with Inferno pistol. Sergent and dante have inferno pistols as well. Due to the priest and Dante giving the squad hit and run and furious charge he is usualy always hitting at str 5 unless he gets assaulted. Then you have to wear a turn of str 4 but most the time he hits at str5 int 7 which is pretty damn good if you ask me. Works really really well with a 5 man squad of VV to tie up anything that might have ap2-3 guns and might want to take a few shots at him. A Baal pred(Flamestorm)can be a great distraction or mobile cover for dante as well. With scout and 18 move you can be right in there deployment zone poping smoke first turn Nobody is going to want that or Dante with a bunch of meltas so close so you can hopefully force you opponent to split his fire which will leave Dante a little less open. (Nobody wants a Flamestorm enima).

 

I think the options Dante gives a squad are alot more usefull than the killyness Astorath brings, But he does require alot of support or he will just be a expensive single tank popper who gets murdered in your opponets first turn of shooting. Taking Dante sort of forces you to play a certain way, BUT I think its a good thing cause it feels very Blood Angel to me I'm sure Sanguinis would approve!

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Astorath also let's you field more than one unit for DC. I keep seeing DC more & more as one of the best units in our codex.

 

0b :lol: