'Ard Boyz Sportsamnship

[NealSmith]

I didn't say they wouldn't play any of us, I was trying to say (maybe poorly) they were joking about their own circle's inability to get their armies painted, etc.

 

ANYWAY... I'm beginning to wonder if it took "two to Tango" and you might have been part of the problem also? The 'Ard Boyz descriptions/info packets clearly set the tone for what you should expect. I've also heard about the "climate" from other players in my area and despite thinking it would be a blast to play, I don't want to deal with those potential issues, so I choose not to play in it.

 

You can lead by example, but I wouldn't expect them to change just because of you.

[LoneSniperSG]

To those who are complaining about "broken" or "hard" lists: I would suggest you not play in 'Ard Boyz. That's what it's all about, bringing the most devastating list you can and beating your opponent to pulp without mercy. If you like playing with friendly or less competative lists, 'Ard Boyz is not for you. That's the facts. If you throw even a silent tantrum, I have no sympathy for you. Not trying to be offensive here, but people that don't like the toughest competition out there are not the target audience.

 

Might I clear my own record? I'm not [censored]ing about anything. But as the rough-natured guy that I am, I saw a couple pretty LAME things. That's all. Things that can be dealt with yes, but they're still horribly stupid and totally flying at me out of left field. 'Ard Boyz. I get it. That's what it is about. But it has me scratching my head when the Judge is scratching his head.

 

However, cheating should be dealt with (politely, of course). It's not lawyering to insist on playing by the letter of the rules. Don't feel bad calling out someone who is doing something wrong. One should give them the benifit of the doubt, though, and consider that they might simply have been playing the wrong way for as long as they've been playing. Often people will simply be misinformed, especially if they play with a small group where there are no outsiders to point out rule errors. When I got back into 40k, I played with a small group initially. I had several significant misconceptions about certain rules that had to be corrected.

 

Ditto that. I had a few too many misconceptions about certain things. I was taught that the owning player of a vehicle gets to choose what weapons are destroyed (and that's still how myself and a friend of mine play). I was also taught that troops could RUN in the movement phase, not in the shooting phase, and this last Saturday was the only time I've ever bothered to Run anything. (Wolf Priest on his own doesn't do me any good, after all.)

 

...The 'Ard Boyz descriptions/info packets clearly set the tone for what you should expect. ...

 

What info packets? Never got one.

[TiguriusX]

Ditto that. I had a few too many misconceptions about certain things. I was taught that the owning player of a vehicle gets to choose what weapons are destroyed (and that's still how myself and a friend of mine play). I was also taught that troops could RUN in the movement phase, not in the shooting phase, and this last Saturday was the only time I've ever bothered to Run anything. (Wolf Priest on his own doesn't do me any good, after all.)

I think this is the crux of the problem....you were taught wrong

 

Both of those examples are expressly given in the rule book (run in shooting phase on p.16 and weapon chosen by attacker p.61)

 

In a friendly environment that isn't a big deal...but this was an ultra competitive no holds barred tournament.

 

*EDIT*

And to be brutally honest if you tried pulling the weapon destroyed rule using your interpretation the guy were playing probably thought you were a major d-bag. That is a huge advantage to the owner of the vehicle and blatant cheating.

[krewl]

/me adds a stormbolter to his vindicators..

 

Now I don't care about weapon destroyed :-D (For the 1st time that is)

===================

I also read all those wall of text things and they do have a good point, however they are missing some nuance.

 

- If you play a random guy somewhere and it's not fun, you either call him on it or ignore it. If you let it pass also fine, just don't play the guy anymore. if you let it pass no one will pick up why he annoys you (Whatever the reason may be) so he'll never get feedback and/or change his game.

 

- In a tourny (Especially if you pay good money for it) you should be able to expect 2 things from your opponents:

1. He plays by the rules. Mistakes can happen, but all the examples here are given. If in doubt, call a judge or look it up in the book or chose to roll a 4+ on it (And live with it if you roll for it. No rolling and whining when you lose ;) ).

The rules are the game, you follow those and if someone wants different rules thats fine, just not on a tournament, go play @ home.

2. You can and should be able to expect a bit of basic good manners. No need to be best friends for life after a game, but no shouting, yelling, etc (Ok sometines a shout is ok when you save 5 5+ inv saves in a roll of 5 :P ).

Gaming, even in a tournament where you are there for the win should be fun for both so even if you lose stay civil about it. grown people can and will surpress negative feelings when they surface, it's a show of civilisation.

 

So I feel that in a tournament you only have some control over who you play and if thet other guy makes you happy.

Because of that I feel a payed tournament has the responsability to also ensure some baseline good behaviour. Throwing a tantrum of your dice around the room is over the edge and should be (at the least) a warning offence. Maybe something like a 3 strikes your out rule, stuff like that shows that there are social rules, even in a tournament ment for the no holds barred lists like 'Ard Boys.

 

About the Hardness/Cheaazyness/beardiness of the lists. I still say that is what 'Ard boys is about, they advertise with it, their rules book says it. No painting points, no soft scores, no army composition points, no sportsmanship. Bring your A game and see who's boss!

 

So even if you bring the hardest nugget of cheese with a beard on top that has cheese in it aswell, you are in the right place.

'Ard boys is where I'd expect maximised landraiders for 225 points in a blood angels list, so 3 landraiders would not surprise me.

Lists can be so muchs harder, 3 landraiders at 2500 points does not even make me blink. 3 raiders comfortable fit in most 170-0 point lists, let alone lists with another 800 points to play with.

 

Even worse would be tha maximised firepower lists that e.g. wolfs do so well. Lascannon/plasmagun rayzorbacks, plenty of 5 men wolf guard melta squads, lot's of long fangs with missile launchers and an added wolf guard cyclone terminator, some rune priests for LL spam and psy defense and your golden. I'd say they will eat 3 raiders with abby in a jiffy. they are just built for one thing, tabling the opponent, and they have the hitting power to do that. That horrible 3rd mission does not matter if you clean the table.

 

Though you probable will hate him and his type of gamer (I gues) you should read sites like Stelek's "Yes the thruth hurts" if you want to see some examples in really hard 'Ard boys lists. Then that chaos list will look nice and fluffy to you all of a sudden.

 

So in short:

- Hard list are ok, that is 'Ard Boyz as it should be.

- Bad behavious is NOT ok, that is bad sportsmanship and should be acted uppon. (Up to removal of the tournament.)

[Wildfire]

And if it included sportsmanship scores, it would at least get people to act nice.

 

I would guess from this statement that either you're lucky enough to live in an area with a lot of good sports, or you have not played in many tourneys that include a sports score. Because what happens is every poor sport marks a zero for every opponent they play, to increase their chances of winning.

 

I've never seen a system of providing points for sportsmanship that works in real life. Ever. And I doubt I ever will, since sportsmanship is so subjective.

 

Might I clear my own record?

 

I wasn't trying to single you out. Several people said similar things.

 

And to be brutally honest if you tried pulling the weapon destroyed rule using your interpretation the guy were playing probably thought you were a major d-bag. That is a huge advantage to the owner of the vehicle and blatant cheating.

 

I wouldn't call it cheating if he honestly knew no better. Which is why I say you give opponents who do something incorrectly the benifit of the doubt, they may simply be ignorant.

[Stormbrow II]

I've never seen a system of providing points for sportsmanship that works in real life. Ever. And I doubt I ever will, since sportsmanship is so subjective.

Consider yourself sigged sir. Sportsmanship should be about whether or not your opponent treated you like he would like to have been treated. Sports in tourneys however ends up as either politics or a popularity contest, or both. One suggestion I like is a yellow card/red card thing where someone will be ejected if they start to act out of line.

 

If you play a random guy somewhere and it's not fun, you either call him on it or ignore it. If you let it pass also fine, just don't play the guy anymore.

That goes without saying. What the article mainly refers to is the fluff/competitive gamer divide (and there is one). It just says that people that are looking for different things from their games should be prepared to say what they want. As the example gives if you want into a shop with an army composed of stuff that you like the look of rather than effectiveness and your opponent starts slating it and explains why their build is filthy then just tell him that you're not looking for an uber-competitive game. It works both ways - if you start playing amongst a group of powergamers and you prefer fluff you set your stall out early.

 

I don't think that can be categorised in the same way as someone that is a task to play against.

 

What info packets? Never got one.

I think he means the (clearly never playtested) mission that was designed by the Nob Biker player that obviously had very small KP in his list so it would dick Mech but not his list. That's not my POV by the way, just what I've been told more than once.

[Grimtooth]

The info packs were the rules and scenarios released by GW for the event in which it mentioned that Ard Boyz is basically a go crazy with 2500pts list to win.

[Brother dean]

Here comes the fun part

 

If he has shooting units he is sacrificing shooting attacks

 

Model must have LOS p.16

 

If his unit is in checkboard formation he can only fire the front rows

If his unit is in column formation he can only fire DIRECTLY ahead because the sides are blocked off by another unit

 

 

If he manages to get his units firing by claiming some limited LOS use the intervening models rule against him. Your unit now has a 4+ cover save

 

Thats fine... Except that your own units do not block line of sight. You are allowed to shoot through your own unit and not give your opponent a coversave. I'll find the page and be back with proof or an apology...

[TiguriusX]

Here comes the fun part

 

If he has shooting units he is sacrificing shooting attacks

 

Model must have LOS p.16

 

If his unit is in checkboard formation he can only fire the front rows

If his unit is in column formation he can only fire DIRECTLY ahead because the sides are blocked off by another unit

 

 

If he manages to get his units firing by claiming some limited LOS use the intervening models rule against him. Your unit now has a 4+ cover save

 

Thats fine... Except that your own units do not block line of sight. You are allowed to shoot through your own unit and not give your opponent a coversave. I'll find the page and be back with proof or an apology...

 

"own unit" not "army" or "all units"

 

It is referring to all models that are part one of unit firing in unison and moving to clear LOS the same way squadroned LSs are assumed to maneuver

see p.16

 

The tactic is basically mixing 2 different different units together so they will obstruct one another

[Brother dean]

Thats fine... Except that your own units do not block line of sight. You are allowed to shoot through your own unit and not give your opponent a coversave. I'll find the page and be back with proof or an apology...

 

"own unit" not "army" or "all units"

 

It is referring to all models that are part one of unit firing in unison and moving to clear LOS the same way squadroned LSs are assumed to maneuver

see p.16

 

The tactic is basically mixing 2 different different units together so they will obstruct one another

 

I concede the point and offer up an apology and need to hunt down the last person who tried this against me and apologise to him too. (not that it helped me not get tabled)

[JEFF4i]

40k is a funny, funny thing. I've played some tournaments, done well in some, not so well in others. But what really gets me is this...

 

I've played sports since as long as I can remember. Golf, baseball, football, basketball, motorcycle racing, bicycle racing, track, cross country, softball, I can go on... Sportsmanship would be there with some opponents, and not so much with others. But there are a few points where actual physical sports differ from 40k, and they follow...

 

1) Sports are SPORTS. They require physical activity. 40k doesn't. Somehow, psychologically, that seems to play into it.

2) Perfect example, A-Rod walks across Braden's mound, and gets chewed out. Favre scores a touchdown that wasn't necessary, and someone tries to chew him out. Sure these are contentious as to whether it should have happened, but you can call someone out. So whether it is a mistake, or deliberate, your ability to make it known that poor behavior won't be tolerated is there.

But in 40k, for some reason, when you call someone out who is being a d-bag, suddenly a lot of people act as if you're the bad guy. I've never understood this. Because sportsmanship isn't just an idea, it's rooted in #3, which is...

3) RESPECT. I don't give a flying **** how good you are, how good you think you are, respect is a must. I love competition, I live on it. But I'm always emphasizing sportsmanship above all else because you are not alone. We all are guilty of getting frustrated, but when people just outright lack respect for the other player(s), then they have crossed the line. Which is irritating, because they should be called out for it.

 

You may be good. I don't care. You may suck. I don't care. Competition is a forum for pitting people against one another with a mixture of luck, fun, and talent. 40k is no different. I've performed in tournaments from tiny little things to nationally televised events, and the way you carry yourself in that scenario not only makes you a better competitor, but any victories all the better.

 

So yeah, be a good sportsman. There is no excuse for not being one.

[Wispy]

There is an adrenaline factor in physical sports that isn't present into 40k. Blood is pumping a lot harder, and it's harder to keep a cool head. Loss of form from an athlete is more understandable in those settings. There's also a clear home team\away team is most of those settings, so fan-reaction from such things is going to be more sympathetic. These things are not present in a 40k setting - keeping a cool head is not only desired but neccessary, and you are no representing any body of fans who will forgive your antics, only yourself.

 

Also, in your example, you are pointing out professional (American) Football. The stakes are much, much higher then a 40k tourney for the contestants involved.

[JEFF4i]

There is an adrenaline factor in physical sports that isn't present into 40k. Blood is pumping a lot harder, and it's harder to keep a cool head. Loss of form from an athlete is more understandable in those settings. There's also a clear home team\away team is most of those settings, so fan-reaction from such things is going to be more sympathetic. These things are not present in a 40k setting - keeping a cool head is not only desired but neccessary, and you are no representing any body of fans who will forgive your antics, only yourself.

 

Also, in your example, you are pointing out professional (American) Football. The stakes are much, much higher then a 40k tourney for the contestants involved.

 

That's kind of my point though. By far and wide there is much better sportsmanship in a venue that doesn't necessarily call for it, as opposed to many of these tournaments.

[Decoy]

These things are not present in a 40k setting - keeping a cool head is not only desired but neccessary, and you are no representing any body of fans who will forgive your antics, only yourself.

 

Debatable. I play for the ideals and the concept of the Wolves. When my army hits the field, my army will represent. Likewise, when I'm in a game, as the governing body controlling the armies, I am equally called upon to step up and represent. Off the table, I am who I am, and I'm a real :P -ing jerk. On the table, I'm representing not only myself, but the Wolves as an army whole. How many times have you gone to a local store and simply called a stranger by their army name? Maybe it's unique to me, but the people I play against are named "Tau", "Dark Eldar", "Red Wolves" (blood angels), and "Smurf." Never "Frank" or "Brent" or "Art" or "Joe." On the gaming table, they represent themselves as people as well as the armies that they drop on the board. This is one of the few reasons I hold a rather large distaste for Ultramarine players and Eldar players; The people that I've faced who play those armies are Grade A, certified :cuss -bags.

 

Likewise, while I cannot speak for others, I know that whenever another Wolf and I have met, we have to immediately play against one another. When that game is complete, if it was satisfactory, we are friends for life. I still keep in contact with the Wolf guy I met and played against ONCE out in Boston. Never saw him again, but Gods damn if we aren't good friends, simply because we're Wolves. It's the army that ties us, pride for the Wolves, and a sort of brotherhood in that regard. I think that I will go out on a limb here and say that if someone is being an ass on my table, and one of my Wolf buddies hears, they'll have my back. It might not be the same for other chapters, but in my experience with the Wolf players I've known, that's the case.

 

Also, in your example, you are pointing out professional (American) Football. The stakes are much, much higher then a 40k tourney for the contestants involved.

 

Yes, because professional icons who can be torn down at the drop of a hat, the sniff of some cocaine, or being involved in a dog-fighting ring don't have a couple million dollars a year to lose...

 

If a 40K player stood to lose their job for being an ass or other disorderly conduct at a tournie, I'd agree with you. As it stands, I think I'll suffice to say that if someone is an ass to me on the gaming board, I will, calmly and in control, table them and then ridicule them out of the store. :P (A far better option than kneecapping them, as I'd like to do.)

[Grey Mage]

*Sighs* Its Ard Boyz. I dont go there expecting sportmanship. I do expect a lack of cheating, some personal hygiene, and a bit of ruthless respect.

 

If theyre :cusss as people, I really dont care. Its just one more reason to do my best to decimate their armies.

If theyre cheaters, theyll be gone shortly. Ill talk to them first, but if it fails Ill call the judge over and show him whats going on. If my opponent says it didnt happen that way Ill ask the judge to sit in for a while so therell be no more 'misunderstandings'.

If theyre just bringing insane combos I wouldnt have thought of and using them in ways that ride the edges of the rules for maximum benefit Ill think theyre clever, but probly to clever for their own good. I will then do my best to decimate them, calling the judges over if they cross the line from riding the edges to crossing them.

 

Heck, theres a couple of complete :cusss at my normal tournaments, one of whom blatantly lies about the rules when playing his own little brother *who is oddly a complete gentleman*, though I must admit my favorite times are when he talks about things he did while he was 'in the CIA'.

[LoneSniperSG]

*EDIT*

And to be brutally honest if you tried pulling the weapon destroyed rule using your interpretation the guy were playing probably thought you were a major d-bag. That is a huge advantage to the owner of the vehicle and blatant cheating.

 

 

Yes, but I was smart enough to listen to the other player before even opening my mouth.

 

It was not an intentional misconception, but it was one swiftly cast aside and I didn't raise an issue about it. I merely asked, and thus, I was promptly informed.

 

 

I asked around, and I was told that a Tourney would be the best way for me to re-enter the playing tables with a bang. I made a couple impressions, maybe, but it did the job. If I forget how to play now, it's because I'm severely concussed.

[TiguriusX]

This thread is making think about many things outside of WH40k

 

-Many of you would have found an honored place at King Arthur's round table. You are essentially arguing "right makes right" vs. "might makes right"

There is a civilized and right way to go about things (i.e., sportsmanship) and the ends (winning a tournament) do not justify the means (full blown a-hole power gaming at all costs).

 

-However, and I know this sounds silly talking about a game, when the ultimate stakes are on the line anything goes. If you can gain an advantage by spitting in your opponents face or throwing sand and it means the difference between living and dying then most people do it. If you can be an a-hole and use psychological tactics to throw your opponent off his WH40k game then people will do it. It is normal human behavior to win at all costs when the stakes are high. If your opponent can't handle it and starts to get angry or frustrated and thrown off his game then you are one step closer to winning. Success will encourage future behavior.

 

Setting a limitation on how you fight creates a weakness to be exploited. Everyone knows you don't bring a knife to a gun fight. Feudal societies with an emphasis on a code of honor for your opponent (typically other nobles) were destroyed by the usage of cheap but effective ranged weapons (long bows/firearms destroyed knights and firearms destroyed samurai). When you play with an emphasis on sportsmanship and face an a-hole power gamer you have a limitation and weakness to be exploited.

 

WH40k 'ard boyz is not a realtime life or death situation so I understand those of you who are upset with the extremes some people may have gone to win...but that is essentially a microcosm of life and society. "nice guys finish last" and a-holes exist for the same reasons. One method is more succesful than the other because it makes use of every possible tool that may result in an advantage. Success as an a-hole power gamer influences future behavior.

 

If you want an analogy think about trial attorneys. I'm sure everyone hates the stereotypical sleaze bag attorney who does all the dirty tricks in the book for his client. But if you were the accused person would you want him or the nice attorney everyone thinks is honorable?

 

I personally do value sportsmanship and I don't think I will ever attend an 'ard Boyz event because I understand it to be a no holds barred environment. I still like to arm myself with knowledge of the cheap tricks and come up with counters so I can shove it back down their throat. I hate people who try to take advantage of others. Its just not who I am. It sounds like many of my wolf brothers aren't meant for 'ard boyz either.

[Requiem of the Wolf]

This thread is making think about many things outside of WH40k

 

-Many of you would have found an honored place at King Arthur's round table. You are essentially arguing "right makes right" vs. "might makes right"

There is a civilized and right way to go about things (i.e., sportsmanship) and the ends (winning a tournament) do not justify the means (full blown a-hole power gaming at all costs).

 

-However, and I know this sounds silly talking about a game, when the ultimate stakes are on the line anything goes. If you can gain an advantage by spitting in your opponents face or throwing sand and it means the difference between living and dying then most people do it. If you can be an a-hole and use psychological tactics to throw your opponent off his WH40k game then people will do it. It is normal human behavior to win at all costs when the stakes are high. If your opponent can't handle it and starts to get angry or frustrated and thrown off his game then you are one step closer to winning. Success will encourage future behavior.

 

Setting a limitation on how you fight creates a weakness to be exploited. Everyone knows you don't bring a knife to a gun fight. Feudal societies with an emphasis on a code of honor for your opponent (typically other nobles) were destroyed by the usage of cheap but effective ranged weapons (long bows/firearms destroyed knights and firearms destroyed samurai). When you play with an emphasis on sportsmanship and face an a-hole power gamer you have a limitation and weakness to be exploited.

 

WH40k 'ard boyz is not a realtime life or death situation so I understand those of you who are upset with the extremes some people may have gone to win...but that is essentially a microcosm of life and society. "nice guys finish last" and a-holes exist for the same reasons. One method is more succesful than the other because it makes use of every possible tool that may result in an advantage. Success as an a-hole power gamer influences future behavior.

 

If you want an analogy think about trial attorneys. I'm sure everyone hates the stereotypical sleaze bag attorney who does all the dirty tricks in the book for his client. But if you were the accused person would you want him or the nice attorney everyone thinks is honorable?

 

I personally do value sportsmanship and I don't think I will ever attend an 'ard Boyz event because I understand it to be a no holds barred environment. I still like to arm myself with knowledge of the cheap tricks and come up with counters so I can shove it back down their throat. I hate people who try to take advantage of others. Its just not who I am. It sounds like many of my wolf brothers aren't meant for 'ard boyz either.

There is a difference between 'psyking your opponent out' and cheating. In a Tournament like 'Ard Boyz...yeah...you use the tools at hand. But you still play the game by the rules. If you let yourself get affected by your opponents Jedi Mind Tricks then you should focus more. I remember a great friend of mine, that pulled off a act that had every opponent he played so flustered that half of them were tabled by turn 3 due to a series of stupid moves When we went to a different store for a tournament then our normal game store. He seemed to have a Homophobe Radar,and could act and BS like you wouldn't believe. So he pulled off the most over the top acting you could imagine. Not flirting with them or anything,just amazingly 'FABULOUS' and flamboyant. Giggling like a drunken prom date and in general just having fun with it. And every one of his opponents was getting distracted constantly and more often then not forgetting to do anything with whole squads. And he wasn't being any louder then anyone else...Though the hawaiian shirt was loud enough to drown out anyone in the store anyways. In fact i think at least one of his opponents got motion sickness from watching that shirt bounce around.

 

Legal? yes...Hilarious?..You better believe it. Did the people letting themselves get distracted deserve it? Well...If they let themselves get distracted they deserved to lose.. Granted this is a touchy subject with some people...Not everyone would want to win badly enough to pull something like that. Then again...a smart player would concentrate on the game and not the Jedi Mind Tricks...

 

For me...I have a couple of things that I do to mess with my opponents mind.First and foremost...I tell my dice what number I want. And the moment I start rolling more then half the dice at that number or higher,9 times out of 10 it starts freaking people out. but here is the thing...Its not about me telling the dice what to do. Its about the first time chance favors me and I roll well,all of a sudden I have my opponent going um...how did he do that. If it happens more then twice in a row,especially for instance if I switch between shooting and wounding to rolling under leadership for a psychic ability,My opponent starts wondering if I am doing it purposefully. And then every time It happens again,he focuses on it more and more. The more attention he puts to the thought of "how do i beat someone that can control their dice" the less attention he puts into the game. And best of all,it helps me keep track of what I need to roll for successes *grins*

[Grey Mage]

See and me, I just train my dice to roll well. Theyre very cooperative, weve been working together for years now. Ticks off my LGS to no end though.... but they know Im not cheating, as about 1 game in 30 everything just goes to hell.

[Requiem of the Wolf]

See and me, I just train my dice to roll well. Theyre very cooperative, weve been working together for years now. Ticks off my LGS to no end though.... but they know Im not cheating, as about 1 game in 30 everything just goes to hell.

Well...It certainly helps that I have trained my dice to roll well also. The only trouble came along when I had to get a new set of dice for 40k,since my opponents were not thrilled with me having to reroll 4 dice again and again. And of course the first time I used a RP...periled myself to death lol.rolled double six's the first turn,then when I explained to my dice I needed them to roll low since it was leadership,the next turn they rolled snake eyes. So I still have some training to do.

[Spacefrisian]

So you going to an extreme tourney with a non extreme list. That sounds more like asking for trouble.

[Simo429]

as some people have brought up sports we certainly do see sportsmanship in sports

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWdf5ZLbtYo

 

paulo dicanio (a ;) and a racist) manages it here by stopping play while evertons keeper is injured instead of putting the ball in an open net so I dont see why its unreasonable to expect it from one person who is more than likely over the age of 15 playing with toy soldiers in a friendly competition

[Stormbrow II]

as some people have brought up sports we certainly do see sportsmanship in sports

Yes we do. But isn't that more an issue of having respect and manners during the game?

 

How exactly does someone's army build come into it, as many tournaments are wont to punish certain choices and players that take them?

[Simo429]

as some people have brought up sports we certainly do see sportsmanship in sports

Yes we do. But isn't that more an issue of having respect and manners during the game?

 

How exactly does someone's army build come into it, as many tournaments are wont to punish certain choices and players that take them?

I think its all to do with the mindset of the individual no matter what you are doing

 

do you want to be fair and honest or do you want to win at all cost

 

personally I dont have a problem with 'cheesy' lists

 

I do have problems with people not being respectful and making it difficult for the opposition to enjoy themselves

 

however I think the main thing is the ard boyz tournament in general

 

It seems like something designed to be cheesy rather than a showcase for the hobby,

 

I think ive said in this thread Ive never played in a tournament but I have been at a number and ive not seen behaviour like this before, I was at warhammer world playing 40k this afternoon and there was a warhammer historical battles tournament on played in great spirit, maybe if the spirit of the tournament was different so to would be the spirit of the participants

[Requiem of the Wolf]

as some people have brought up sports we certainly do see sportsmanship in sports

Yes we do. But isn't that more an issue of having respect and manners during the game?

 

How exactly does someone's army build come into it, as many tournaments are wont to punish certain choices and players that take them?

I think its all to do with the mindset of the individual no matter what you are doing

 

do you want to be fair and honest or do you want to win at all cost

 

personally I dont have a problem with 'cheesy' lists

 

I do have problems with people not being respectful and making it difficult for the opposition to enjoy themselves

 

however I think the main thing is the ard boyz tournament in general

 

It seems like something designed to be cheesy rather than a showcase for the hobby,

 

I think ive said in this thread Ive never played in a tournament but I have been at a number and ive not seen behaviour like this before, I was at warhammer world playing 40k this afternoon and there was a warhammer historical battles tournament on played in great spirit, maybe if the spirit of the tournament was different so to would be the spirit of the participants

I suppose as far as the Mind tricks and rituals almost everyone has,whether they admit it or not, it would depend on how ya do it. I mean,thats why I made the distinction about the act my friend put on,how he never flirted with his opponents,just took advantage of their unreasoning homophobia to set them off their game. When someone exhibits a unpleasent behavior,I see no problem with turning it into a weapon against them. Other then that situation...the way I look at it is the question of how is my opponent behaving. If from the very beginning,my opponent has been a cool guy,we have a good back and forth comraderie,Then without a doubt I am gonna commiserate over his misfortunes and laugh at my own,and ensure that no matter who wins,we both have a good time and end the game with a handshake and a wish of luck in future games. I think it is my passive agressive nature,but the way I have allways looked at it is I will be as nice a guy as people let me be. Because at heart,I am a coldhearted evil bastige who decided to do his best to be a decent human being. But it takes a lot of effort,so if my opponent doesn't bother to be a decent then I see no reason to expend the effort myself. Under no circumstances would I cheat,because well..that shows a complete lack of style and ability.But other then that...My behavior is completely dependant on how my Opponent acts that first turn. I give people the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise but once they have, I don't hold back.

 

Perfect example...there are two guys I play against regularly at my game store. One has without a doubt been the coolest guy I have ever played. We joke, laugh and in general allways have a blast no matter who wins.I have regularly let him take back mistakes,go back and do something he forgot in a earlier turn. He's done the same for me,though more often then not I insist that it stays the way it happened with me because I hate screwing up and view it as training lol. The other guy,He has played questionably many times,'forgotten' rules even though he has been playing for far longer.Him..I play cold and emotionless,concentrating pretty much on only killing him without remorse and pity. He is one that I use the "telling my dice what they should roll" bit on. And it tends to bug the living hell out of him when it starts working. I don't play this guy except in tournaments or when there is literally no other choice available. The first guy? 8 times out of 10 I play him every time I come to the game store and I couldn't be happier.