3 or 4 troop choices?

[MagneticFreak]

Hi all,

 

I've been struggling for a while with my army list, and based on the comments I received, taking 4 troops is apparently too much. For us, troops represent significative investments, as Grey Gunters squads are quite expensive point wise. But our troops are still very good at playing the hammer role, even though it is not their main purpose.

 

So here is my dilemma: To add some more goodies to my army (i.e. Thunderwolves), should I take only 3 Grey Hunters squad? Currently, I have 4 GH squads, 2 are in razobacks, and 2 are 10-men squads in rhinos.

 

Many thanks

[Godhead]

How many points are you playing?

[saphius]

I would say a few things. First, it depends on how survivable they are. Whether or not you need them to kill things, or just hold objectives. The size of the units in question. The points occasionally entice me to grab another. But the most important factor on number of troop required, is scenarios. If your running ones from the book you need much less than if your playing say, scenario 1 in Ard boyz.

[rodgambit]

I started running 3 in 1500 points but lately I've been running 2 and using the extra points for hammer units to go after my opponent. However, with only 2 troops you do have to be careful with them.

[ReyRex]

I run 4 troops in 2500 points.

 

Two units in rhinos for close combat.

Full ten man squads.

 

 

Two units to go after objectives.

One ten man squad and one 6 man squad in a razorback.

 

Rex

[Godhead]

2500 I run 4. 2 10 man squads (one hammer with arjac), and 2 5 man squads in las/plas razorbacks that provides long range support scores.

 

in 2000 point and less games I run 3. 2 10 man squads and a 5 man in the same las/plas razorback set up.

 

Anything under 1500 I run 2 troop choices and it depends on my list on whether or not they are a 5 man or a 9-10 man squad.

[Grey Mage]

I run 1 per 500pts, occasionally an extra one if Im taking a large bloodclaw squad in a landraider- wich I think of more as a toy unit than anything else.

 

My GH squads run 200-230pts. Wich means that a little under half my points is troops. I never have issues putting fun units in there. GHs are arguably one of the most powerful troops in the game, and on pair with some armies more elite troops in their abilities.

 

Taking more GHs isnt an onus, its a pleasure, as it was in the 3rd ed codex.

[Iron-Daemon Forge]

For my own Space Wolves tournament list it will be

 

1000pts - Two troops

1500pts - Three troops chose w/Transport due to like mobilty warfare.

1750pts - I will have a fourth unit which is purely for baby sitting reason, it is pretty my 5x Grey Hunter, Melta, Razorback (nothing on it apart from the gear it come with).

 

I think depend the point if it gose further up, I'll stick to four from 1750pts to 2000, just so there not to many transport on the table, make it harder to hide from first turn fire. Use the pts to up my Wolf Guards & get some nice heavy support.

 

IP

[Zhukov]

Depends on points. 1500+ I use 4 more or less fully equiped Grey Hunter squads. This way I have some redundancy and so I can use them in the most efficient way. (might I lose 1 complete squad, not really a problem). I dont like taking minimum squad in razorbacks, which do little besides hoping to score and getting off some hail-mary shots. I rather invest a little more to make them truly usefull. But thats my style of play of course.

 

I know a lot veterans 'hate' to face lists with a lot Marines in it. It makes it very hard to win against. If someone doesnt have a lot of troops, you can much more easily focus on them to ensure a draw/victory, while trying to more or less evade your non-scoring hammer units; might they not be managable to also be taken out. They also have to be very carefull with their troops, which limits the ways he can use them, same reason why I said I use many troops myself.

[antique_nova]

For me, 4 scoring units is the par for 1500 points. 3 just is not enough. Why? Because when you place one to objective sit and the other two to contest the ones in your opponent's area, what are you going to do about the ones inbetween the enemy and your own DZ? That is why i take four:

One objective sitting - in my deployment zone

One objective contesting - any objectives in the middle up for grabs

Two objective capturers and denial - in the opponent's deployment zone.

 

The last two, unit contesters and unit capturing and denialers can swap duties to keep the pressure up on my opponent even if i suffer casulties.

thanks

antique_nova

[Quillen]

It's your play style that matters.

 

I usually do 3 Grey Hunter packs in lists. I have done 2 thou. And I have had 5 in one list. Just Grey Hunters and some Heavy tanks.

 

It's what you feel comfortable with.

 

Just like shooting a gun. You get pro with it by using it over and over. Some people like .22cals Some like 9mm, while others like .40cal. And they get good with them by shooting them over and over.

 

Look at what you think you would like to take and then use the crap out of it. Over and over so you know where each unit needs to go in what ever situation shows up. As you get use to the units then you can change it to see what works best for you.

 

If you table the guy 2 troops will work fine. Which is why I do not mind taking only 2 troops. Yet I love grey hunters, so I have run 5 before cause I have 6 squads and wanted to use as many as I could.

[antique_nova]

Quillen:

In those environments, you have no control over what makes the environment, absolutely no control, the situation. In a board game you do or to an larger extend of control over what happens, the situation does not change and if you know enough of the rulebook you will know roughly the outcome of almost everything bar the dice rolls and you need to play to the style that the game is based around. Since 5th edition specifically aims at having lots of scoring units, then i believe that you will need a reasonable amount of scoring units and not just bare minimum. I have tried to do different, but it does not work as well as a list with a good amount of scoring units, you scoring units don't have to be weak as well they can dish out as much punishment as a terminator squad or near enough.

thanks

antique_nova

[Ragnars Claw]

Grey Hunters are great but the problem i found with relying on too many units of them is that they do all the dirty work so come the end of the game they are usually dead or relatively easy to finish off just because they have had to get stuck in.

 

Which is why i think its a balancing act. I usually play 1,750 in which case i take 2 large units to be workhorses and a small unit in a razorback to take objectives closer to home.

 

Its horses for course though, you will get people that swear by 5 troops choices and some that swear by 2. At the end of the day its whatever works for you not what someone else thinks you should take :)

[MagneticFreak]

I play 1850. Scenarios will most likely be randomly generated from the BRB. I have included my list below (I know its not the armylist forum, but I just add it to answer questions raised in previous posts).

 

My main concern comes from the fact that some of my opponents armies (that I know), will be fairly offensive. I am affraid that relying to much on my GH will not give me enough punch to deal with hammer forces. My main hammer unit is truly efficient, but could be, in principle, isolated from the rest of my army by a cunning general. This means that I would rely only on my GH to do the dirty job. GH are great, but still, not against all units you find in a competitive tournament environment.

 

So, I though dropping a 10-man GH squad (***) to get a small unit of thunderwolves. ( I know I have no Fast attack slots left, but I could combine somehow my 2 fenrisian wolf squads). This would give me another hammer unit to deal with the more dangerous stuff out there (Monstrous creatures, Death Company, etc..).

 

What do you guys think in this particular case?

 

My army looks like:

 

Rune Priest - Chooser, talisman

Wolf Priest, talisman, saga of the wolfkin

WGBL - frost blade, SS

 

4 x WG - TDA, 2 x power wpn, 2xpower fist, all have SS (wolf priest and WGBL join)

 

8 x GH - melta, motw, standard, WG with powerfist, rhino (Rune priest joins)

9 x GH - melta, motw, standard, WG with powerfist, rhino (***)

5 x GH - flamer, razorback (twin lascannons)

5 x GH - flamer, razorback (twin hvy bolters)

 

10 x Fenrisian wolves

10 x Fenrisian wolves

Land speeder - MM

 

5 x Long Fangs - 4 rocket launchers

[Hotspur]

In my 2k list, I have four troop choices; I've been using two squads of GHs in rhinos and two squads of BCs in LRRs lately, and it's great fun.

 

The GHs are definitely a better choice than the BCs, but the look on peoples' faces when they see two LRRs filled with BCs on the table is priceless. I can't help but field a couple squads...

 

If you're playing to win tourneys, though, GHs are the way to go. The more you have, the better.

[antique_nova]

If you are introducing lists, then i would suggest a new thread in the army list section, because the mods will move this - when they see the list.

 

Ragnars Claw: I found that was a problem too, but if you have a squad of 7-8 with a wolf standard, a melta gun, a wolf guard with a thunder hammer and a combi-melta. Well then, they can take on anything in 1500 points, especially when you have three squads of them with a rune priest with jotww nearby. In drop pods......

 

thanks

antique_nova

[rodgambit]

You definitely have to manage 2 troops choices in 1500 points more than 3 or 4 and grey hunters are awesome, but I just don't find them particular effective against some of the units I run across when I play my buddies. I have friends that like to run Talos and Hammer Incubi units with DE, 4 MC's in demon list and the C'tan/pariahs in necrons. I find that careful use of the troops allows me to create more hammer/threat units like double longfangs, TWC or a tricked out Wolf Lord riding with 15 fen wolves. I also like our scouts and OBEL and find that I have more success with a balanced list. I also find that in most games I play holding 1 objective will generally get you a draw and 2 will win so the more fire power I have to take out his units the better.

[Grimtooth]

I run 3 at 1850 and ran 5 this past weekend at Ard Boyz.

 

Hammer units are nice, but don't really need more then one well balanced one if they are supported by your troops.

[Lord Ragnarok]

I run 1 per 500pts, occasionally an extra one if Im taking a large bloodclaw squad in a landraider- wich I think of more as a toy unit than anything else.

 

My GH squads run 200-230pts. Wich means that a little under half my points is troops. I never have issues putting fun units in there. GHs are arguably one of the most powerful troops in the game, and on pair with some armies more elite troops in their abilities.

 

Taking more GHs isnt an onus, its a pleasure, as it was in the 3rd ed codex.

 

I've not had the chance to play with our new dex yet, but I like this philosophy and is why I wanted four 8-10 sized GH packs in my 2000 pt list. Was still able to squeeze in 4TWC and a TWC lord, 2 speeders, and 2 DPing dreads.

[Lord Howland Greywolf]

I always find that 1 scoring unit per 500pts is plenty.

[Stormbrow II]

I always find that 1 scoring unit per 500pts is plenty.

There was someone else earlier in the thread said this too and I have to agree also. Most of my games are 1750 and I run a minimum of 4. My latest list has 5. At 1500 I'll run 3 if I can, but we don't really bother with this level anymore in my local group.

 

but I just don't find them particular effective against some of the units I run across when I play my buddies. I have friends that like to run Talos and Hammer Incubi units with DE, 4 MC's in demon list and the C'tan/pariahs in necrons.

Talos and Pariahs. :)

 

Your GH shouldn't be fighting them. That works belongs to your support units and Hammers.

[wiplash]

personally i use at 2000 points:

 

2x 10 blood claws in rhinos

2x 10 grey hunters

[Vash113]

I guess I'm unusual, in 1500 point events, if I'm feeling like being a little nuts, I'll run 6 full Troop choices. 4 full Grey Hunter units, 2 full Blood Claw units, and a Wolf Guard Battle Leader and 4 Wolf Guard Pack Leaders. Lots of Meltaguns, a few plasmas, and a nice helping of flamers, power weapons and power fists.

 

Yea it will get utterly annihilated by certain armies like the Leafblower and some others, but overall putting down over 70 Power Armored bodies in 1500 points makes opponents quail... and its just plain funny.

 

If I'm going more balanced I run 2 Grey Hunter units in Rhinos, and a Blood Claw unit in a Crusader, topped off by a couple Characters and usually some Wolf Scouts or a Venerable Dread depending on points and situation. The Grey Hunters grab objectives and the Blood Claws are there well... because they're amusing, they have a great ability to throw opponents off (nobody expects over a dozen PA Marines to come piling out of a LR for some reason) and do well at wiping enemy squads off of objectives and clearing the way for the following Grey Hunters.

 

1 troop per 500 points is generally a sound way to go, especially in 5th Edition.

[Grey Mage]

but I just don't find them particular effective against some of the units I run across when I play my buddies. I have friends that like to run Talos and Hammer Incubi units with DE, 4 MC's in demon list and the C'tan/pariahs in necrons.

Talos and Pariahs. :lol:

 

Your GH shouldn't be fighting them. That works belongs to your support units and Hammers.

Note, they shouldnt be fighting them in close combat. A GH pack with 2xPG and a PP, PF, Rhino ends up being 235pts, and can handle most any MC, especially if you can finish two of them off with a split fire pair of longfangs.

 

C'tan are a different game altogether, but if he has one you shouldnt be fighting- kill the servants and the gods will crumble.

[saphius]

I always find that 1 scoring unit per 500pts is plenty.

 

I guess if you want a point rule of thumb I would actually say 1 per 750. (Rounding up) That gives you 4 at 2500 points. I usually don't have problems with troops but typically I don't use them for opponent removal, just take and hold.