Vanguard options?

[Abbadons Chosen]

im just wondering if a vanguard veteran can take both a power weapon and a storm shield, and if they can what do they lose?

 

Thanks in advance

[JamesI]

Yes, you would need to trade the chainsword and the boltpistol to get both a power weapon and a storm shield.

[Meatman]

Although if you did take a storm shield then a lightning claw would be better as you lose the +1 attack from taking the shield anyway.

[Abbadons Chosen]

the single lightning claw doesnt give +1 attack, so what would be the point in takingit instead of a power weapon?

[Meatman]

Because the storm shield makes you lose the +1 attack bonus as well, but the lightning claw lets you re-roll failed rolls to wound

[thade]

Because the storm shield makes you lose the +1 attack bonus as well, but the lightning claw lets you re-roll failed rolls to wound

^ This.

 

Storm Shield rules state that you can never gain a bonus offhand attack when using the SS...so no bonus attack for the power weapon. May as well take the lit claw, as vs infantry, statistically, the lit claw will wound more.

 

Honestly, though, I'd never take a storm shield and a power weapon upgrade on the same model in a vanguard unit, but that's a topic for the Tactics board (and has been addressed *many* times there).

[Abbadons Chosen]

i dont mind the cost i just like the idea of a fast moving unit that has a 3+ inv save and power weapon attacks. I like the sounds of lightning claws. If i gave the sergeant twin lighting claws and the rest shields and lighting claws how would the saves work?,

sorry if that is a really noob question

[Grey Mage]

You allocate wounds to models and thus the model would use the best save available to it.

[Frosty the Pyro]

i dont mind the cost i just like the idea of a fast moving unit that has a 3+ inv save and power weapon attacks. I like the sounds of lightning claws. If i gave the sergeant twin lighting claws and the rest shields and lighting claws how would the saves work?,

sorry if that is a really noob question

Indeed

 

Frosty's Wound Allocation Order of Operations

 

1. Enemy Rolls to hit

2. Enemy Rolls to wound (Uses Majority toughness)

3. Apply one wound to each MODEL untill each model has one wound, Then Apply a second, third, and so on untill there are no more wounds to allocate.

4. Seperate wounded models into different identical groups based on wargear and profile (so all marines with just a bolter in one group, ones with a boltpistal/ccw in another, plasmaguns in another, sergents in another and so on)

5. Roll armor saves for each GROUP

6. Within each group apply wounds in such a way to remove the maximum amount of models/wounds posible (for example intant death goes on the ones with the most wounds remaing), extra wounds do NOT carry over into other groups, they are lost.

[thade]

i dont mind the cost i just like the idea of a fast moving unit that has a 3+ inv save and power weapon attacks. I like the sounds of lightning claws. If i gave the sergeant twin lighting claws and the rest shields and lighting claws how would the saves work?,

sorry if that is a really noob question

 

Only do one lit claw for each guy with a storm shield; wielding a storm shield means you can never get a bonus attack for an offhand.

 

And my recommendation was not based on points...but that you don't want a guy with a lit claw taking a save if you can help it; you want guys in the squad that carry ONLY a storm shield (or nothing at all) for the purpose of soaking wounds.

[Arikel]

i dont mind the cost i just like the idea of a fast moving unit that has a 3+ inv save and power weapon attacks. I like the sounds of lightning claws. If i gave the sergeant twin lighting claws and the rest shields and lighting claws how would the saves work?,

sorry if that is a really noob question

 

Only do one lit claw for each guy with a storm shield; wielding a storm shield means you can never get a bonus attack for an offhand.

 

And my recommendation was not based on points...but that you don't want a guy with a lit claw taking a save if you can help it; you want guys in the squad that carry ONLY a storm shield (or nothing at all) for the purpose of soaking wounds.

The point is somewhat moot here thade, for regular vanguard marines, they have to trade a weapon to get a storm shield so they would never get +1 attack even if the storm shields allowed it for models with 2 weapons.

[thade]

i dont mind the cost i just like the idea of a fast moving unit that has a 3+ inv save and power weapon attacks. I like the sounds of lightning claws. If i gave the sergeant twin lighting claws and the rest shields and lighting claws how would the saves work?,

sorry if that is a really noob question

 

Only do one lit claw for each guy with a storm shield; wielding a storm shield means you can never get a bonus attack for an offhand.

 

And my recommendation was not based on points...but that you don't want a guy with a lit claw taking a save if you can help it; you want guys in the squad that carry ONLY a storm shield (or nothing at all) for the purpose of soaking wounds.

The point is somewhat moot here thade, for regular vanguard marines, they have to trade a weapon to get a storm shield so they would never get +1 attack even if the storm shields allowed it for models with 2 weapons.

 

I was more thinking about lit claws > power sword in the case where you would take a weapon and shield on the same model; but you are correct, as they replace CCW/BP with upgrades they choose.

[Frosty the Pyro]

Against the vast majority of targets a single power claw is better than a powersword+pistol. At least for models with 2 or more base attacks.