thade Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 Okay, consider the following scenario: HQ Battlesuit with two shield drones. Elite unit with two battlesuits, each suit has two shield drones. The HQ joins the elite team (he's an IC) so now we have three battle suits with six shield drones. I have a stellar round of bolterfire and lay down nine wounds on this target for them to save...So, every model (three battle suits, six shield drones) has one save to take, and we roll them in batches. What batches? The HQ and the two battle suits are easy enough, but what about the shield drones? My instinct is I roll all of their saves in one go...but the HQs shield drones are different (they leave with him if he leaves) so it almost makes more sense to roll saves for the HQs drones separately from the Elite team's drones. Then again, if one of the Elite models dies...do it's shield drones get removed at the end of a phase (as the ICs would should he die?), and so do I roll each controller's shield drone saves separately? AAAHHHH my head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 Yea, I've fought against that often enough. You would have to roll for each suit's drones and the commander's drones seperately, as rolling them together potentially has the same effect of batch rolling 9 wounds on a reduced tactical squad with different loadouts. If they split up, the Tau player could simply say "Oh, both units still have at least one drone" without referencing which dude actually has one. Rolling them seperately prevents any problems whatsoever (and contrary to popular belief, doesn't actually take any more noticeable time). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 Technically it would be each controllers shield drones seperately. Because it affects the game a bit. My own group plays a simpler form, where you remove as even a number of drones from each controller as possible, with odd ones being the owning players choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted May 18, 2010 Author Share Posted May 18, 2010 Thanks, guys; it seems less confusing now that I see two of you say it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleDV8 Posted May 18, 2010 Share Posted May 18, 2010 I'm afraid I disagree with Grey Mage and Seahawk. When grouping models for saves we put the ones that are 'identical in gaming terms ' together. How we determine this is BRB pg.25 "have the same profile of characteristics, the same special rules and the same weapons and wargear." By this criteria all of the shield drones are identical, being an HQ or an Elite choice would not matter. Yes it can cause trouble , but the RAW is pretty clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted May 18, 2010 Author Share Posted May 18, 2010 I'm afraid I disagree with Grey Mage and Seahawk.When grouping models for saves we put the ones that are 'identical in gaming terms ' together. How we determine this is BRB pg.25 "have the same profile of characteristics, the same special rules and the same weapons and wargear." By this criteria all of the shield drones are identical, being an HQ or an Elite choice would not matter. Yes it can cause trouble , but the RAW is pretty clear. Actually, I think you are in the mistaken because the way Grey Mage and Seahawk do it, they are grouping the identical ones...and I believe you are not. "Identical in gaming terms" means they are all the same...and that goes beyond their stats and abilities. In this case, if you don't keep track of what Crisis Suit controls what drones, how do you know which drones to remove (if any) when a Crisis Suit with a drone controller is a casualty? Maybe you just allow them the benefit of the doubt? Or your Tau players never seperate their ICs from their squads? Or if they do, you let them take drones as they wish? I wonder how you resolve that? It wast these questions that brought me here in the first place. =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted May 18, 2010 Share Posted May 18, 2010 Theyre part of different squads and are frankly the wargear of different models. You keep track of wich basic tactical marines your rolling for even if the template hits two squads, you should do the same here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleDV8 Posted May 18, 2010 Share Posted May 18, 2010 Theyre part of different squads and are frankly the wargear of different models. You keep track of wich basic tactical marines your rolling for even if the template hits two squads, you should do the same here. Except they are not seperate squads, you have an IC (With wargear ) joined with a unit of suits (with wargear). This is one squad/unit. In that it is a shooting attack they could not be targeted if it was a different squad. "Identical in gaming terms" means they are all the same...and that goes beyond their stats and abilities no, it doesn't Look at my post again, we are told (BRB pg.25) how we determine what is 'identical in gaming terms" 4 things: characteristics, special rules, weapons and wargear. Thats it. The sheild drones have the same characteristics and the same special rules. In that they have no weapons or wargear that is also the same. The Tau player could choose whichever drone to remove as he wishes. if you don't keep track of what Crisis Suit controls what drones, how do you know which drones to remove (if any) when a Crisis Suit with a drone controller is a casualty? The same way you would have to in any case. The answer to this question does not change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted May 18, 2010 Share Posted May 18, 2010 They are in CC, and that comes up almost as often as shooting them, and one would expect it to follow the same guidelines for tracking them. They dont have wargear, your right. However I think your forgetting the part where they ARE wargear. That they have a profile doesnt change that, nor does it change that whose wargear is operational and whose is not needs to be kept track of just like remembering wich model has fired their combi-weapons can be important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleDV8 Posted May 18, 2010 Share Posted May 18, 2010 Of course being in CC would be different as the IC's drones could not be targeted with the units drones. In CC they count as two seperate units. Yes they are wargear and models in the unit, identical to the other drones except for who owns them. Ownership is not one of the four criteria that determine 'identical in gaming terms'. Another example is a Terminator Sgt. with twin lighting claws. Even though he has a different name (title) , if he meets the other 4 points, same profile of characteristics, the same special rules , the same weapons and wargear he would have to be grouped with the members of his squad with twin lighting claws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shatter Posted May 19, 2010 Share Posted May 19, 2010 ?? They don't have the same wargear. Crazy. Those drones are his, these ones belong to that guy and this two are for the other guy. While the ICs are creating a unit together, the drones are not attached to the unit. They're still attached to individuals. Are they not? Are people moving their IC's drones more than 2" away from the owner? Doesn't codex trump BRB? I don't play tau, but this seems to me how it should be working. And as for your sig... Kill me, I've used a d4. =p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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