Tactics against Space Wolves

[redsoxrule201]

Hey everyone,

Me and my friend have played about half a dozen games against each other, i have CSM and he has Space Wolves, for the fights we have split even in wins, but this was with dice rolls mainly it did not have much to do with our armies. I noticed that I would have lost all of the games if it did not happen that he was rolling really poorly. The thing is that I have tried a different army lists for most of the battles. There were two that i used the same exact list that i used in a previous win, but then he slaughtered me in the second battle.

His tactics have in general been the same which is more hth but will have at least one squad that is shooting missile launchers (usually 5 men). he also has used one or two ruin priests that have the canceling physic powers ability. Those are his people that he has used every game but then he has changed his army slightly each time.

Any help would be great for an army list (around 1500 pts is prob best for us) and also tactics too. I would like to win even if i am rolling poorly :P

[Iron Father Ferrum]

We need to know what both of you are running presently. Post up some army lists so we can see where the jam-ups are.

[chillin]

I play against SW's all the time and do well. I just use mostly squads of csm and usually 1 squad of brzrkrs, a chaos lord and either 2X2 oblits or 2 preds, nothing special. As for tactics I try to piecemeal, concentrate fire/hth from 2 of my squads on 1 of his. Also keep game objectives in mind the whole game, often we are tied in body count (sometimes I even losing body count) but when the game ends I control more objectives or have achieved the mission.

[Prot]

It's very odd to say this... in fact I find myself surprised to type it out but I don't have a problem with Wolves with my Chaos.

 

Not to be glib but the truth is the 'strong' Chaos lists (as boring and repetitive as they are) DO work.

 

I just played a guy who's been playing Wolves for years, but is still new to the new codex and had a massive win. I find I outshoot him, then force him to come to me, and then mop up in CC.

[Captain Tezdal]

I just throw 'zerks at em, tend's to work

[Zhukov]

I consider myself quite an experienced Chaos player and recently became a Space Wolves player too. I should be able to tell you some things, but dont have time right now. I'll come back to this topic tomorrow.

 

In short: you might have a problem -_-

[the jeske]

3x5 LF 2x3RL2xLC > 6oblits.

Rune priests turn your Warptime prince off , while at the same time we can do nothing about their psychic powers .

GH =>csm [same armed units of GH are actualy cheaper then csm] and SW can run more plasma + with more shots coming from LF then oblits and with zerkers/pms being fewer in numbers the zerkers/pms build suffers more.

 

all in all a short range/assault army just like us only more it is flexible[hoods , LF can split fire . so they can put 6 lascanons shots in to our rhinos and 9 RL in to our DPs in the same turn] , more shoty and with more builds then use.

[Zhukov]

Allright Jeske allright points out the main problems, although a little short and maybe a little incomprehensive for some people. I'll try to explain my thoughts about the matter in a bit more detail.

 

"Funny" fact: I played with my Wolves against my own optimised Chaos army (a friend played with my Chaos). I tabled him pretty easily. End turn 4 I think...

 

Chaos and Wolves in general have a lot in common if you take into account general builds:

 

-Troops

Generally they work best at close range for both armies while being decent at least in assault too. We both dont favour wielding heavy weapons in them (wolves cant even do this).

 

-Heavy support

Basicly it comes down to Long Fangs, the Havocs of the Wolves versur our Obliterators. Preds etc can still be taken, but are not really popular.

 

Biggest difference is in the HQ part: we can only take Close combat HQ's, generally Deamon Princes. They have the option to take Sorcerers with awesome powers; psychic protection while still being decent in assault.

 

Your biggest chances of winning is still by going with an optimised Chaos list, which should include at least 3x2 Obliterators. Deamon Princes normally already get shot down pretty fast; maybe even faster against Wolves; I would still take them though. Taking a Lord or sorcerers doesnt help anything. The shots which would go otherwise against your Princes now simply go against your transports or troops: no gain.

Troops: I would simply stay away from normal CSM. They dont cut it against Wolves. They are cheaper and have the Wolfstandard which gives them the edge in assault. If they fire against you and receive the charge, or charge themselves: both times CSM is in the disadvantage. Berzerkers can still win against them in CC if you get the charge. Plague Marines are still resilient enough. They are vulnerable to lots of Missile Launchers and Plasma though. Still they will fair better than CSM I think.

 

So I would still go with a normal Chaos build:

 

2x prince

1 or 2x Plagues in Rhinos

1 or 2x Berzerkers in Rhinos

3x2 Obliterators.

 

If you need an exact build, ask and I'll give it to you.

 

Taking other builds doesnt really help.

 

It now entirely depends on what your oponent fields. A lot of SW players tend to only take Missile Launchers in their Long Fangs/Havocs. If your oponent also does this: good. Why? Because they generally dont hurt your Obliterators a lot. Lascannons on the other hand do. Anyhow: I would try to take his Long Fangs out early, I probably rather kill them first, instead of shooting down his rhinos. This is rather odd, as I dont do this agains any other Marine army I think: I always shoot on transports first normally. Long Fangs just kill all things we got so quick, they must simply be removed as soon as possible. Things get a lot easier after this; as long as your Obliterators stay alive you have good chances: they can kill everything he has, its as simple as that; they are as against any other army the ultimate support unit.

 

Your Princes will die, very quick. Either the Long Fangs or his troops or something else will do this. If you get a charge off with them: great. If not: dont worry. But dont give them psychic powers; dont. They probably wont use them or Rune Priest will have a good chance of canceling them. (50%, instead of the usual ~42% normal Hoods have). I wouldnt bother with any Marks I think: T6 is of no use against all the S8 while a 4+ cover save can be gotten in other ways. Other 2 are CC marks, which your Princes might never use. Mark of Nurgle does however pretty much ensure your Prince can only be handled with Heavy Fire... So now that I think about it it might not be that bad actually. It at least forces your openent to fire some Missiles at him for example.

 

Rune Priests can be problematic if they keep using their psychic powers. Both living lightning and Jaws can be a pain for Chaos. 1 takes out Princes/transports, the other can take out quite some Plague Marines each time. Shoot down the rhino he is in, and try to kill him + the squad... Yeah not a brilliant plan I know but it doesnt get any better I'm afraid.

 

He could field lots of other things which can be strong against chaos: Thunderwolf cavalry (either a Lord or a complete unit), Wolf scouts which can kill your Obliterators.

 

I see it like this: Wolves arent much stronger compared to Chaos against most builds; however Wolves gainst Chaos favours Wolves.