Thunder-Lord lists

[Grimtooth]

Well starting with Goat Boys list at Adepticon and what I have read and seen first hand with successful Ard Boyz lists, Thunder-Lord lists have become one of our stronger lists.

 

When I first brought it up after Adepticon with a topic here on the forums, there were many people saying that it was a lucky list that would not fair well against IG or Mech lists. This past Ard Boyz, I happened to see it tear through both IG and SM mech lists leaving a wake of destruction behind them.

 

So what makes a good Thunder0-Lord list?

 

1. Wolf Lord on TWM, accompanied by a TWC unit or other Wolf Lords on TWM.

2. Mechanized Troops

3. Fenrisian wolves as bullet magnets for joined hammer unit

4. Long Fangs, either mechanized or foot slogging.

5. Not much armored beyond transports.

6. Lack of Wolf Guard completely

 

Considering what seems to be the fast decapitating kill tactics, I wonder how the following would fit into a Thunder-Lord list:

 

1. Swift Claw biker pack, led by a WGPL on a bike or Wolf Priest on a bike.

2. Rune Priest on a bike

3. Speeders

4. Wolf Scouts

5. Dakka Dreads

 

Anyone else have an opinion on this pretty decent army list?

[Wispy]

the thing about those kinds of lists is you need they require a greater then 1500 point value to make work.

 

Default 40k generally starts at 1500, and I rarely play about that.

[Requiem of the Wolf]

the thing about those kinds of lists is you need they require a greater then 1500 point value to make work.

 

Default 40k generally starts at 1500, and I rarely play about that.

The game store I play at just started up less then two months ago,so it has been doing lower point games so that people could build up their forces without having to scramble or stay on the side lines.

[wolf363839]

This doesn't make a true Thunderlord list, but having a few basic units of Grey Hunters led by a naster Thunderwolf Lord with Saga of the Bear can fit into very small lists but still gives the Wolves the hero-hammer ability that makes them cool and fun to play.

 

I typically play 2000pts with a Thunderwolf Lord leading a 5-wolf pack of Fenrisian Wolves. He leads my mechanized force and has been crushing folks pretty well. He and his wolves are essentially another maneuver unit that hits pretty hard against all but the toughest deathstar type unit. If I need to kill the deathstar, just add GHs to the combat!

 

Just my $0.02.

[Godhead]

You can still easily fit a Thunderlord with a SS/TH attached to a squad of fen wolves. It would still allow the use of plenty of grey hunters and long fangs or speeders or whatever you needed. I have actually ran a 3 man TWC and a WGBL list at 1k points. Obviously it was my deathstar unit, but two 5 man GH's in a las/plas razorback with a vindi was plenty to table my opponent.

[Grimtooth]

It pretty easy to downgrade a Thunder Lord to just a WGBL on TWM and still retain a fair amount of hammer. The stores I regularly play at are at 1750pts which leaves me plenty of room to add and subtract.

[Grey Mage]

Eh, theyre a good unit, and we were talking about TWM'd lord with a pack of FWs within a week of the codex coming out.

 

Are they the most uber things in the world? No, not really. Their main advantage is that they dont spend as long running accross the board, atleast, not quite as long. Remember they still only move 6" a turn, however impressive their charge range can potentially be.

 

Drop Pods will get your men there just as quickly, and get them into firing range even faster.

[commander alexander]

At lower point levels, an Iron Priest mounted on his Thunderwolf and accompanied by Cyberwolves is a good buy. Or at least it is in my opinion. I would run that unit up the middle in between two rhinos popping smoke, with a wolf lord on a bike with saga of the bear behind him, flying by once he's in range to assault something. The way I kit them out, theres about 225 pts left after all this in a 1000 pt army.

[Simo429]

similar to what im having a go with tomorrow

 

 

HQ

Wolf Lord - 195

Thunderwolf Mount

Storm Shield

Fenrisian Wolf

 

Rune Priest - 120

TDA

Living Lightening

JOTWW

 

Wolf Priest - 120

TDA

 

Troops

 

Grey Hunters x 10- 165 Points

1 x melta

1 x melta

1 x wolf standard

 

Grey Hunters x 10- 170 Points

1 x Plasma gun

1 x Plasma gun

1 x wolf standard

 

Blood Claws x 15 - 235

1 x Wolf standard

 

Heavy Support

 

Long Fangs x 6- 170

3 x Missile Launcher

2 x Las Cannon

 

Fast Attack

 

Thunder Wolf Cavalry x 4 - 255

1 x Storm Shield

4 x Melta Bombs

 

Transports

 

Rhino -35

Rhino - 35

[Grey Mage]

Thats alot of HQs for 1500pts dont you think?

[Simo429]

Thats alot of HQs for 1500pts dont you think?

maybe but ive never had a game without a rune priest and I wanted to try a wolf priest with my blood claws because someone suggested that they work well

[Grey Mage]

Oh they do, Bloodclaws are the kind of unit where ever attack on the charge needs to count, and a wolf priest is frankly your best bet to make sure thats the case.

 

I tend to get 10/11 hits after the rerolls, wich is really really nice.

[Simo429]

Oh they do, Bloodclaws are the kind of unit where ever attack on the charge needs to count, and a wolf priest is frankly your best bet to make sure thats the case.

my previous lists had all included ragnar

 

each week i keep changing my list to try different combos

[commander alexander]

I do have to agree though with the OP's observation. With 'Ard Boyz being the first time I finally got to play with my wolves, I had some observations. I realized at that points level, a thunder-wolf unit would have been easy to fit in, and it would still be very powerful. Wouldn't it have been epic to have a wolf lord on his thunder-wolf, with saga of the Beast-slayer, go up against something like a Trygon in the third scenario?

 

=Edit= Oh and I do have to agree with the comment about wolf priests, I find it hard to field a unit of claws without one.

[Godhead]

I personally find bloodclaws hard to field ever :). I tend to want to take advantage of the fact that they can actually have a larger unit size than just about any other space marine chapter out there (BT's i think can field 20 man strong units). Then I hate footslogging them, so I start looking at a crusader, then I have to have a baby sitter, so WP, or at least a wgpl. Once it's all said and done I've spent alot of points on a unit that runs amok if it's baby sitter dies, and just gets beat up with return attacks, and has very little versatility. They can assault....or assault.....or assault. My GH's shoot, assault, pop tanks, and gets hit less on return attacks.

 

@Greymage- Yes drop pods can get your units into a fight just as fast as a TWM (probably faster in most cases), but then that unit is on foot unless you have a ride coming to meet them, is only t4 vs t5, and can't fleet. I have also found that the 12in charge gives me the ability to get into subsequent combats soooooo much faster than anything else. Plus,str 10 weapons are godly. If I had drop podded a unit and the monolith landed near that squad, str 8 would have STRUGGLED to do anything. As it was between my TWC and Arjac, I killed 2 monoliths and the deciever in 1st two turns of the game.

 

Once i'm in enemy lines, I look and just get to decide where I want to fight, not what can I get to. The other thing about TWC/TWM units is that there is nothing else in our codex a durable, barring TDA (which you can argue, t4 vs t5 and the 1w vs 2w as to which is more durable).

[Grimtooth]

Eh, theyre a good unit, and we were talking about TWM'd lord with a pack of FWs within a week of the codex coming out.

 

Are they the most uber things in the world? No, not really. Their main advantage is that they dont spend as long running accross the board, atleast, not quite as long. Remember they still only move 6" a turn, however impressive their charge range can potentially be.

 

Drop Pods will get your men there just as quickly, and get them into firing range even faster.

 

Firing range of your enemy as well without being able to charge.

 

I know we were talking about it within a week of the codex coming out. My point is that in two very large tournament settings Thunder Lord lists have proven themselves quite nicely.

 

I have messed around with dropping Wolf Lords down to WGBL and then adding an Iron Priest on a TWM as well. I think that would be a decent unit to use in lower point games.

[Simo429]

there were 5 wolf players at the the battle for terra tournament at warhammer world this week and they all had TWC bar one i think, i dont know if any of them had thunder lords though

[commander alexander]

Anything that has a potential of 16" or more of movement per turn, can get into combat quickly. In the second scenario of Ard Boyz, the one with spear head deployment, there was a great big rock in the middle. My opponent had an infantry heavy tau list. I got first turn, so being behind the rock didn't matter, but being within 14" of the fire-warriors did. What I'm trying to say, is units of cavalry can easily get into combat the first turn, especially if you go first, so if you really have invested in thunder wolf cavalry, you should also invest in Bjorn to try and get first turn.

[Wolf Guard Nostromo]

Verging off topic, but I see your thunderlord, and I offer an alternative...

 

...the bike lord! Can move 24" every turn, has a 10 point start over the thunderbun and can have a modest 25 point-per-model power armour pack with him. Gets a 3+ invunerable for the whole pack if he puts his foot down too, and can fire-off his relentless weapon to his hearts content.

 

Is the thunderwolf really worth it over this? Not for me. Forget that 'running' business... Try and keep out of this guys charge range :)

[commander alexander]

In smaller games, I would definitely go with the bikes over wolves, but at larger points cost, I would go with the wolves. They would have way more hitting power than the bikes. Although, like I said before, if I had my heart set on a unit of wolves at the smaller point levels, I would go with the Iron Priest.

[Grimtooth]

Verging off topic, but I see your thunderlord, and I offer an alternative...

 

...the bike lord! Can move 24" every turn, has a 10 point start over the thunderbun and can have a modest 25 point-per-model power armour pack with him. Gets a 3+ invunerable for the whole pack if he puts his foot down too, and can fire-off his relentless weapon to his hearts content.

 

Is the thunderwolf really worth it over this? Not for me. Forget that 'running' business... Try and keep out of this guys charge range :)

 

Except your entire unit, lacking Saga of Bear on your WOL, is prone to ID since you are considered t4. And sure it is a 24" move which gets you a 3+ save, but then you can do absolutely nothing for an entire turn in which you enemy is going to shoot the heck out of you (3+ still can be failed), move away from you, or assault you.

 

I will stick with my Thunder Lords.

[Requiem of the Wolf]

Verging off topic, but I see your thunderlord, and I offer an alternative...

 

...the bike lord! Can move 24" every turn, has a 10 point start over the thunderbun and can have a modest 25 point-per-model power armour pack with him. Gets a 3+ invunerable for the whole pack if he puts his foot down too, and can fire-off his relentless weapon to his hearts content.

 

Is the thunderwolf really worth it over this? Not for me. Forget that 'running' business... Try and keep out of this guys charge range :)

 

Except your entire unit, lacking Saga of Bear on your WOL, is prone to ID since you are considered t4. And sure it is a 24" move which gets you a 3+ save, but then you can do absolutely nothing for an entire turn in which you enemy is going to shoot the heck out of you (3+ still can be failed), move away from you, or assault you.

 

I will stick with my Thunder Lords.

24 inches without any actions,or 19-24 inches and an assault. And since my TWM Lord will be Rocking a Storm Shield...he will allready have the 3+ invulnerable, a S6 due to the Frost Blade,and the same number of attacks as your bike lord. His pack escorting him will be more expensive granted...But you can gear them the same way,and still ensure that their weaponry is varied enough that you can do all sorts of amusing wound allocations.TH,PF,FB,WC & Melta Bombs,FB & Melta Bombs. and give all five SS's. Yes its Expensive....But the expression on your opponent's face when you tell him that its a 3+ invulnerable for all of them is priceless. Benefit is that loadout gives you 4 of the 5 vehicle killers,and 2 of the 5 Dread killers.

[Godhead]

STR 5/10 >>>> ALL, IMO.

 

A 6 inch charge is standard and everyone accounts for that. A 12 inch charge range gets people crapping their pants going "OH SNAP I FORGOT THEY RUN 6"AND CHARGE 12". The 24" flat out can you across the table sooner, but it can also get you seperated from the rest of your pack as well, leaving you alone to die, with the rest of your army out of reach to support the unit.

 

TWC and lord all have at least 2 wounds and T5 vs 1 wound for the standard bike trooper and a t5(4). I will grant you that you can take saga of the bear and then the (4) becomes a moot point, but the rest of your squad still gets pounded by it. Also if you use bikes, you give up either mobility if you take fen wolves or ablative wounds from shooting by not taking fen wolves from the wargear selection.

[Wolf Guard Nostromo]

Verging off topic, but I see your thunderlord, and I offer an alternative...

 

...the bike lord! Can move 24" every turn, has a 10 point start over the thunderbun and can have a modest 25 point-per-model power armour pack with him. Gets a 3+ invunerable for the whole pack if he puts his foot down too, and can fire-off his relentless weapon to his hearts content.

 

Is the thunderwolf really worth it over this? Not for me. Forget that 'running' business... Try and keep out of this guys charge range :(

 

Except your entire unit, lacking Saga of Bear on your WOL, is prone to ID since you are considered t4. And sure it is a 24" move which gets you a 3+ save, but then you can do absolutely nothing for an entire turn in which you enemy is going to shoot the heck out of you (3+ still can be failed), move away from you, or assault you.

 

I will stick with my Thunder Lords.

 

As I said, I was offering an alternative.

 

Instant death seems like an odd argument for the whole unit as most of a bike pack only have one wound :) . ICs will always be vuneralbe to various weapons, psychic powers and other tricks, and in most cases the bike lord has the same toughness - it is only ID that it ignores, and turning into a chaos spawn or an I or L test will have the same pitfalls. Its not even like thunderwolves ignore instant death anyway, its just harder - vindicator? Smash! It would have exactly the same effect on thunderwolves as it would on the bikes. With more models on the table in an equivalent point bike pack more would survive anyway (both from the seperation perspective and from the wound roll 1s)! I also think you forget that with the bigger movement of bikes, and frankly, the lower models, you can use cover more easily than thunderwolves, thereby blocking lines of sight. If you don't use the maneuvrability of either of these units you are wasting their principle advantage, and bikes are simply faster in more situations.

 

Your comment about an opponent simply taking one of three options against approaching bikes is purely an issue of generalship - I would hardly use a 24" move and put myself straight in my opponents crosshairs while you tactically move your thunderwolves around and avoid it - both unit types have movement benefits over the other, but I would hardly claim this means bikes get shot up and thunderwolves don't.

 

Again, I emphasise, Im offering an alternative - my belief is that the benefits of bikes outway those of thunderwolves, and chief amongst a few motivators is the points cost - that is why I can understand the IC in a pack of wolves more easily. The boosts to profile provided by the thunderwolf look great but since you don't get an extra W or I, both of which I would pay the points for, and you are paying for the rending ability and mostly not using it, I don't think it outweighs the bike option.

 

As to the comment of buying them all storm shields... really? That pack is 80 points per model minimum. Think what you can buy for that, and they still have the same chance of taking a wound from a boltgun as a biker, and while wound allocation would certainly help, the points investment would be enormous and your opponents target selection decision would be pretty simple. They would die. Fast. The removal of old-school line rolling via sweeping advance has made this sort of pack much less appealing - even if they get into combat, they will be exposed again at some point and will take a massive slice of your points with them if they get hammered.

 

Finally, I wouldn't ever take wolves with a bike lord - it stops turbo boost and most of the movement advantages - a foolish sacrifice.

 

Its a trade off and, while I can see there are benefits to taking thunderwolves, I simply think bikes are the stronger alternative.

[Wispy]

I used to run bike HQ's frequently, and they got instant death'd in the early turns of the game all the time all the times.

 

A bike and Saga of the Bear certainly gives you the Thunderwolf durability, but the extra attack and point in strength makes it more then worth it over the bike lord, I think.