Has anyone read "Redemption Corps"?

[Reclusiarch Darius]

My opinions;

 

- Good story, I kept reading to the end without much effort

- Tyranid/Ork hybrid stuff is in keeping with the background

- Istavannian philosophy is what drove the Inquisitor (forget his name, read the book) to let the Rok destroy Mortesons home world. They wanna produce survivors of apocalypse, because they believe the weak should be culled.

- Sisters are following the Inquisitor's instructions. To satisfy their own beliefs, they need Mortenson to confess to being the leader of a hero cult. The fact that he isn't kinda escapes their attention.

- Some of the action scenes were stolen from 'Black Hawk Down'. However, I feel the author did an interesting variation on the theme, and Kreig is an interesting character.

- Heroism is always relative. If the author wants the Stormtrooper to win, he'll win. Preed stretched credibility but in the spirit of 'badass > logic', I kinda went with it.

 

As response to the petulant whinefest from some SoB fans;

 

- It's a novel. You can choose to read it or not. I found it enjoyable. You might not.

- Sisters of battle are not Space Marines.

- They were the bad guys in this story, hence they cop it from the heroes. Just like every action novel written EVER.

- You need to take 40k less seriously. Really, don't bother trying to impose logic or order (or in this case, your childish feelings of indirect criticism from having something you love criticised), it's a futile effort. Any story written in the 40k universe is going to be skewed by the author and the context.

[Gree]

As response to the petulant whinefest from some SoB fans;

 

Borderline flaming. How nice. If you can't handle my opinion then don't bother to respond.

 

- It's a novel. You can choose to read it or not. I found it enjoyable. You might not.

 

And your point? I beleive I had already expressed my opinion. I don't know why you are getting so offended.

 

- Sisters of battle are not Space Marines.

 

Again, your point? That does not change the fact that they are elite soldiers in power armor.

 

- You need to take 40k less seriously. Really, don't bother trying to impose logic or order (or in this case, your childish feelings of indirect criticism from having something you love criticised), it's a futile effort. Any story written in the 40k universe is going to be skewed by the author and the context.

 

Again, more borderline flaming. It seems like you really can't handle someone else's opinion.

[Inquisitor Fox]

Alright, this is rapidly approaching enough. Keep it in line, civil and polite people or I'll be closing it down. It is now simply responding with the same reasoning over and over, so unless there's something new to add leave it alone. I'll be watching this one closely to make sure it stays on the up and up. As a general rule this is one of the most polite helpful forums I've seen and I want to keep it that way.

[Panzerkopf]

As response to the petulant whinefest from some SoB fans;

 

- It's a novel. You can choose to read it or not. I found it enjoyable. You might not.

- Sisters of battle are not Space Marines.

- They were the bad guys in this story, hence they cop it from the heroes. Just like every action novel written EVER.

- You need to take 40k less seriously. Really, don't bother trying to impose logic or order (or in this case, your childish feelings of indirect criticism from having something you love criticised), it's a futile effort. Any story written in the 40k universe is going to be skewed by the author and the context.

 

This isn't petulant whining, it's a criticism of the huge leap of logic that needs to be taken in order to have Sisters knowingly work for an Istvaanian Inquisitor. I'm not saying it can never happen, I'm just saying that it needs to be explained extremely well and I get the sense that it isn't in this book. I'm probably going to read it after all, just so I can see for myself what's happening there.

And yes, I am imposing logic on 40k because it does follow its own logic. How often do you see an Ultramarine and a Black Legion traitor stranded together on a deserted planet and eventually developing a friendship and learning that despite different colored armor and bizarre mutations, we're all the same on the inside? You don't, and loyal Sisters willingly abetting heresy won't happen either.

[Hfran Morkai]

The sacrifice of one of a million worlds is nothing if it would enable the defense of the other planets, the goal was to enable the Imperium to survive, the loss of a planet full of hive scum would be deemed worthy.

 

That is why the Inquisition exists, in order to protect the Imperium as a whole, the Sisters of battle are merely a tool of the Inquisition, as is pretty much any Imperial force (just some refuse to believe it)

[Gree]

The sacrifice of one of a million worlds is nothing if it would enable the defense of the other planets, the goal was to enable the Imperium to survive, the loss of a planet full of hive scum would be deemed worthy.

 

That is why the Inquisition exists, in order to protect the Imperium as a whole, the Sisters of battle are merely a tool of the Inquisition, as is pretty much any Imperial force (just some refuse to believe it)

 

But the whole Istavaanian belief was considered radical for a reason. And Sisters traditionally don't deal well with radicals. In fact the whole Istavaanian logic is ridiculous considering they could have simply recruited more Guardsmen to die against the enemy. In fact Salvar is ten times worse than Gommorah and they still churn out Guard. Not to mention the planet was a hive world, so it must have produced weapons as well.

[Walter Payton]

The Sisters still are elite soldiers, wear power armor boosting their strength

 

Actually, Sororitas Power Armour has no strength enhancing or life support capabilities beyond being able to support its own weight. Sisters also do not have a neural interface with it, as Space Marines do.

[Hfran Morkai]

Gomorrah was deemed as a world of non-believers, they didn't deserve to live according to the Imperium and its servants. They hoped that destroying a world could bring faith to others, raise warriors worthy of the Imperium.

 

They believed the Orks to be just that, dumb and predictable, they hadn't counted on alien intelligence. Defeating an enemy grants the victor power and knowledge, if a world or two was lost in the process of creating warriors suitable for defeating aliens so what? The Inquisition does not care so long as the Imperium prevails.

[Gree]

The Sisters still are elite soldiers, wear power armor boosting their strength

 

Actually, Sororitas Power Armour has no strength enhancing or life support capabilities beyond being able to support its own weight. Sisters also do not have a neural interface with it, as Space Marines do.

 

Actually no, it does increase their strength. This is noted in the Cain novels and in Helsreach. And old Canoness can carry and fire a bolter thanks to her power amror (she was an old crone) and the Sisters are noted as having enhanced strength due to their armor in Duty Calls.

 

Gomorrah was deemed as a world of non-believers, they didn't deserve to live according to the Imperium and its servants. They hoped that destroying a world could bring faith to others, raise warriors worthy of the Imperium.

 

So is Salvar, and yet they still produce Guard regiments. Even Gomorrah has the excuse of having factories. In fact Gommorah even had a Schola on the planet. So their was some major Imperial precence there. In fact if you want o get warriors worthy of the Imperium go look in the freaking Schola. The place that trains orphans from birth into elite storm troopers who love the Emperor and produce Sisters. Or get the Astartes. The Istavvanians are idiots.

 

If you need elite soldiers form destroyed planets and warzones you don't need to create one. This is 40k, the galaxy is littered with destroyed planets and warzones.

 

They believed the Orks to be just that, dumb and predictable, they hadn't counted on alien intelligence. Defeating an enemy grants the victor power and knowledge, if a world or two was lost in the process of creating warriors suitable for defeating aliens so what? The Inquisition does not care so long as the Imperium prevails.

 

I would point out that 1. the whole idea is radical. and 2 simply raisng more Guardsmen works better. You know, like Salvar and Armageddon. Not to mention the loss of a hive world would affect things greatly across the sector in terms of Guard tithes and arms production, amoung the loss of a Schola.

[Hfran Morkai]

simply raisng more Guardsmen works better. You know, like Salvar and Armageddon. Not to mention the loss of a hive world would affect things greatly across the sector in terms of Guard tithes and arms production, amoung the loss of a Schola.

 

Not if those guardsman had no faith in the Imperium, a warrior without belief in his cause is useless, this rings true for military people today, if they have no passion or belief in their purpose they won't fight hard and they won't win.

 

Belief is a powerful weapon, especially in the 41st millennium

[Gree]

simply raisng more Guardsmen works better. You know, like Salvar and Armageddon. Not to mention the loss of a hive world would affect things greatly across the sector in terms of Guard tithes and arms production, amoung the loss of a Schola.

 

Not if those guardsman had no faith in the Imperium, a warrior without belief in his cause is useless, this rings true for military people today, if they have no passion or belief in their purpose they won't fight hard and they won't win.

 

Belief is a powerful weapon, especially in the 41st millennium

 

Salvar Guardsmen are motivated by plunder, not faith, and they only fight so they can leave Salvar. They are all prisoners. And yet their world still exists and provides guard regiments.

 

Not to mention there is also a Schola present. You know, the instituation that produces faithful Sisters and Stormtroopers?

[Judanas]

Wait, there was a Schola on the planet?

 

The place run by Sisters and Abbots in order to train faithful servants of the Emperor?

 

I honestly think that a Cannoness would rather die than work with an Istavaanian. The Sisters, as an organisation are strict Thorians. They would not accept the destruction of a planet as 'nesessery to make the others more faithful', they are a very 'rage, rage against the dying of the light' organisation.

 

An Inquisitor I can see doing this, as well as his personal men or guard regiments. Sisters, not so much. This is the type of crap they don't do.

[Panzerkopf]

The sacrifice of one of a million worlds is nothing if it would enable the defense of the other planets, the goal was to enable the Imperium to survive, the loss of a planet full of hive scum would be deemed worthy.

 

Your statement is true but it doesn't apply in this situation. Sisters hate aliens and people who work with them. Thus, an Inquisitor who uses an alien race to destroy his enemy are just as bad as those same enemies. Ergo, they wouldn't help that Inquisitor without some extremely creative explanation on the part of the author.

 

And here's the skinny on Sororitas power armor from the codex:

 

"... it provides the same degree of armored protection, yet must forgo the more advanced (my emphasis) life support systems and strength enhancing abilities used by the Space Marines." (pg. 19, Codex: Witch Hunters)

 

This, to me, strongly implies that it does enhance strength and provide life-support, just not as well as a Marine's gear. See also the entry on the Sabbat Pattern Sororitas Helm:

 

"...the helm contains an integral rebreather, allowing the Sister to operate in total vacuum for limited periods." (pg. 19) If that's not life support, I don't know what is.

[Chengar Qordath]

I have to agree with Judanas, Sisters of Battle would not knowingly and willingly work for such an extreme Istvaanian agenda, especially not under the circumstances described in the books. The Sisters, as a whole, tend towards Thorianism.

 

That's not to say that Sisters will never work with Radicals. There are some strains of Radical that the Sisters' agenda does not come into too much conflict with: Occlurians, Libracar, and the saner Recongregators could all work. In particular, a Seculous Attendous Inquisitor could easily work with the Sisters given that one of the purposes of the Sisters is to ensure that the Ecclesiarchy can never bring about another Age of Apostasy. Pretty much any type of Radical could be justified under the right circumstances; Sisters would probably even work alongside a Xanthite so long as the cause was clearly in the interests of the Imperium and the Xanthite did not go too far. There is also the possibility that the Sisters do not realize how Radical the Inquisitor they are working with is; such as handing over some proscribed texts to an Inquisitor so that he can "dispose" of them personally.

 

I think the main thing that annoys Sisters of Battle players is that the Black Library pretty much always turns Sisters into jobbers or bad guys.

[Panzerkopf]

I completely agree, it could happen but it needs to be explained well to be plausible. Could someone please tell me, by PM or by sterilized spoiler post, how the alliance of the Sisters and the Istvaanian is rationalized?

 

I don't know what a "jobber" is and I believe this is the only book that makes them straight bad guys, but Sisters don't get anywhere near the love they deserve from BL. "Faith and Fire" was only alright and "Daemonifuge" was disappointing. It seems like they only come into their own as side-characters in other faction's stories. The best portayal of them I have ever seen was in "Crossfire", the Arbites novel. That whole series was simply amazing anyway, all of you have to read it.

[Chengar Qordath]

I completely agree, it could happen but it needs to be explained well to be plausible. Could someone please tell me, by PM or by sterilized spoiler post, how the alliance of the Sisters and the Istvaanian is rationalized?

 

I don't know what a "jobber" is and I believe this is the only book that makes them straight bad guys, but Sisters don't get anywhere near the love they deserve from BL. "Faith and Fire" was only alright and "Daemonifuge" was disappointing. It seems like they only come into their own as side-characters in other faction's stories. The best portrayal of them I have ever seen was in "Crossfire", the Arbites novel. That whole series was simply amazing anyway, all of you have to read it.

Jobbers are essentially people who get killed/beaten up to establish that the villain is powerful and dangerous. It does seem like a lot of the time Sisters show up in the Black Library, it is so that the big bad can kill them all so that when the Space Marines, Guard, or other (almost always male, incidentally) servants of the Imperium show up and win the battle it is that much more impressive. "Chaos Lord Bob the Unclean must be dangerous, he killed an entire Sororitas convent! Luckily, we have a couple dozen plucky guardsmen to stop him where a thousand elite power-armored soldiers failed!"

 

Also, while Sisters are rarely cast as straight-up bad guys, they do tend to get pigeonholed into the role of hostile misguided fanatics being manipulated by the big bad evil guy a lot. The Black Library also, at least in the books I've read, tends to seriously downplay their faith powers. Considering how important Acts of Faith are to the Sister in tabletop, so cutting them out leads to a serious drop in their fighting ability.

 

I'll need to get my hands on a copy of Crossfire, it sounds good.

[Panzerkopf]

Really? In the books I've read the Sisters aren't even there. They do get pigeon holed a lot though, but they really are fanatics. Though I've never thought of them as the dopey, human-wave kind. To me, Sisters represent the frighteningly competent and clinical fanatics one could have found in the Waffen-SS. They're absolutely willing to die for their cause, but they have the intelligence and tactical acumen to make the enemy die for his instead.

 

As for "Crossfire", don't read it just for the Sisters. They actually don't get that much coverage and they do end up being jobbers in the end. It wasn't too bad though, there were only a handful of them and they were caught in a nasty ambush. They died well though. That actually makes it pretty sad that this is their best portrayal.

Read it because it's just an extremely good novel that shows the day-to-day grind of the Imperium in an interesting and exciting way. All of the characters are fleshed out wonderfully and it shows the complex interactions of Imperial agencies in a good way. The plot is intricate, mature, and engrossing; I honestly can't think of anything bad about it. Also, this may be the only portrayal of the Ordos Famulous in existence and they kick major ass to boot!

[Inache]

You guys are focusing on their actions, but their motives would explain why they're taking an Istaavanian approach. Unfortunately the book doesn't really cover it. It does say however that the Canoness has been working with the =][= for her whole life, so the possibility of some gruesome fate befalling her Order during the course of their duties drove her to do unthinkable things is quite likely. I mean, We've seen it happen to almost everybody else in 40k, why should the Sister's be any different.

[Judanas]

I mean, We've seen it happen to almost everybody else in 40k, why should the Sister's be any different.

 

Because Sisters are more resistant to corruption than space marines? Or anyone else bar grey knights? That they are devoted to the memory of Sebastian Thor, a man who said 'The strength of the Emperor is Humanity, and the strength of Humanity is the Emperor'. They are the the most pure and fanatical followers of what the Emperor wants and what they believe is right?

 

The Istaavanian beliefs runs opposed to their very nature, that of a light in the darkness. They are shining examples of the imperium at it's most holy and united, not a mob of nutters who would destroy a planet by giving it to the enemy of mankind. If the planet had been jusdged unholy or not pure enough they would have put it to the torch but not have given it to the orks or used them as a tool to destroy it.

 

And...I'm ranting...

[Chengar Qordath]

I mean, We've seen it happen to almost everybody else in 40k, why should the Sister's be any different.

 

Because Sisters are more resistant to corruption than space marines? Or anyone else bar grey knights? That they are devoted to the memory of Sebastian Thor, a man who said 'The strength of the Emperor is Humanity, and the strength of Humanity is the Emperor'. They are the the most pure and fanatical followers of what the Emperor wants and what they believe is right?

 

The Istaavanian beliefs runs opposed to their very nature, that of a light in the darkness. They are shining examples of the imperium at it's most holy and united, not a mob of nutters who would destroy a planet by giving it to the enemy of mankind. If the planet had been jusdged unholy or not pure enough they would have put it to the torch but not have given it to the orks or used them as a tool to destroy it.

 

And...I'm ranting...

It's a fair point though; canonically, the Sisters are different.

[Inache]

In that because of their fanaticism they've been lead astray before?

 

Duty Calls, heretic Inquisitor uses the a convent of Sisters to his own means, and they don't even realize it.

 

Cain's Last Stand, a mission of one of the Orders has been completely converted to Slaanesh and is fighting the IG

 

And the best one, their founding mistake, The Daughters of the Emperor.

 

Fanatics are easy to manipulate, especially when they think they're doing the right thing.

[Gree]

You guys are focusing on their actions, but their motives would explain why they're taking an Istaavanian approach. Unfortunately the book doesn't really cover it. It does say however that the Canoness has been working with the =][= for her whole life, so the possibility of some gruesome fate befalling her Order during the course of their duties drove her to do unthinkable things is quite likely. I mean, We've seen it happen to almost everybody else in 40k, why should the Sister's be any different.

 

That would be, if she did not clearly taek pleasure in having Mortenson as her plaything.

 

Duty Calls, heretic Inquisitor uses the a convent of Sisters to his own means, and they don't even realize it.

 

However once they realized what has happening they turned against him. If they had known what his radical goals were they would have never cooperated. Wheras the sisters in Redemption Corps knew full well what was happening.

 

Cain's Last Stand, a mission of one of the Orders has been completely converted to Slaanesh and is fighting the IG

 

Actually no, The Sisters were being mind-controlled by Varan, once they broke free they commited suicide.

[Inache]

That's kinda what I was getting at. The Sisters are generally more shielded by faith than the average Imperial servant, but at the same time, that doesn't mean that them going off the deep end or just dipping their toes in the Radical pool doesn't occasionally happen.

 

And the fact that she takes pleasure in either A) Converting him or B ) Killing him is kinda in keeping with the ideals of the Sisters. Either redemption or the death of a heretic. Either or is cause for praising the Emperor.

 

The Sisters on Periremunda wouldn't have blinked twice to keep following him unless Cain and Vail had shown up and opened their eyes. It seems that they rationalized their actions pretty well, and I have no doubt that rationalization plays a big part in Istaavanian beliefs.

 

And they were being controlled by Varan's abillities, but I could have sworn they had daubed Slaaneshi markings on their power armor as well. It's been awhile since I've read it though, so I might be remembering incorrectly. In either case, the Inquisitor with the Sisters was a potent psyker as well. They never really confirmed if he was pulling the Sister's strings or if he was just kind of an observer of the whole mess. I got mixed signals from that because he helped Kreig.

[Judanas]

That's kinda what I was getting at. The Sisters are generally more shielded by faith than the average Imperial servant, but at the same time, that doesn't mean that them going off the deep end or just dipping their toes in the Radical pool doesn't occasionally happen.

 

If by occasionally you mean once? The Sisters are pretty much exclusively Thorian, with a bit of Recongregationism or Amalathianism depeding on the particualar group but they are violently opposed to Istvaanism, a belief set that believes that the Horus Heresy and The Age of Apostasy were good things for the Imperium.

 

And they were being controlled by Varan's abillities, but I could have sworn they had daubed Slaaneshi markings on their power armor as well. It's been awhile since I've read it though, so I might be remembering incorrectly.

 

That one was mind control pure and simple.

[Walter Payton]

The Sisters still are elite soldiers, wear power armor boosting their strength

 

Actually, Sororitas Power Armour has no strength enhancing or life support capabilities beyond being able to support its own weight. Sisters also do not have a neural interface with it, as Space Marines do.

 

Codex>BL