Flesh Tearer army idea

[Brother-Captain Devlonir]

Dear all,

 

As a first poster here, I came on a search for advice. I have been actively out of the game for a very long time but with the new Blood Angels codex coming out the old fire inside started burning again and I decided to start collecting a new army of my favorite chapter again. But, to be a bit of a variant of what I already had, I decided to want to make it a Flesh Tearers fully mobilized army.

 

The idea of the basic army is very simple: Fast Vehicle Assaults. My first calculations came up with a 1500 points army that looked, in general, a bit like this:

 

HQ:

1. Chapter Master Seth (joins VAS)

Elites:

1. Chaplain with Power Fist (joins DC)

2. Sanguinary Priest (joins VAS)

Troops:

1. Death Company (9) in Rhino

2. Assault Squad (5) in Razorback (with lascannons)

3. Assault Squad (5) in Razorback (with lascannons)

Fast Attack:

1. Vanguard Veteran Squad (8) in Rhino. (heavy on power wpns, power fist and special pistols)

 

 

Now.. I had the idea to make all these squads from 6 boxes of Death Company, using the options in the box to equip all and using other bits (like flesh tearer shoulder pads) to make it even more iconic.

But there are a few problems I have combe across so far:

 

First of all: Considering the Flesh Tearer color scheme and the DC color scheme being very close, it will be really hard to make the squads really stand apart. Any tips on how to make the color schemes a bit more different without loosing the iconic aspects of both? I especially consider this important because the base model for the DC and assault marines are the same, the DC models.

 

Second: I would consider it silly for Flesh Tearers to use the same helmet color schemes as the normal Blood Angels do. What do you suggest as a scheme for the veterans vs normal assault marines?

 

Third: I considered it nice to make the 3 sergeants use Thunder Hammers, not because I especially like the weapon above a power fist, but because it would be iconic if all leaders (Seth and the sergeants) would be wielding large 2 handed weapons. Am I nerfing myself with this decision?

 

Fourth: Is there anything I am missing about a real iconic Flesh Tearers army? I know they are known for jump packs, but also for quick vehicle assaults. I choose to go for the second part. But is there anything else I miss?

 

Fifth: Is there anything I am missing in general about playing Flesh Tearers / Blood Angels in the current edition?

 

Thank you in advance from a returning player after nearly a decade!

[jeremy1391]

hmmmm since you dont want to have the standardized helmet colors of regular blood angels how about a gold stripe down the middle of the helmet for vets?

[Exterminatus Machine]

I run Tearers and I'm doing a white stripe on the helmets for the sergeants. For my Sternguard, I'm going with a white helmet w/ black accents...you gotta remember, up until evolving into a nearly all assault force, they were in fact a codex astartes chapter. And flesh tearers have the widest variety of skills at the individual level...meaning a flesh tearer marine will know tactical operations, dev. stuff, assault stuff and know the vehicles....

 

My only question with your list...why not deep strike vanguard vets. Heroic intervention is boss...assault on the turn you deep strike = win.

[Whitefireinferno]

Howdy Brother welcome to the family. Okay to start answering some of ya Q's

 

First of all: Considering the Flesh Tearer color scheme and the DC color scheme being very close, it will be really hard to make the squads really stand apart. Any tips on how to make the color schemes a bit more different without loosing the iconic aspects of both? I especially consider this important because the base model for the DC and assault marines are the same, the DC models.

??? Confused Our scheme is dark red (Red Gore for me) Black helms,Shoulders and backpacks oh and the right Kneepad , But from what I have worked out our DC just follow the BA style of LOTS of Black and Red red X's and since all yours are being made from the DC boxes either dont use the things with X's outside of your DC or remove them or something.

 

Second: I would consider it silly for Flesh Tearers to use the same helmet color schemes as the normal Blood Angels do. What do you suggest as a scheme for the veterans vs normal assault marines?

We have Black Helmets No matter what we are doing and our Vets are all over the show so yeah no way of picking them out sort of thing

 

Third: I considered it nice to make the 3 sergeants use Thunder Hammers, not because I especially like the weapon above a power fist, but because it would be iconic if all leaders (Seth and the sergeants) would be wielding large 2 handed weapons. Am I nerfing myself with this decision?

Bah Thunder hammers are made of Pure undiluted Bad assery go for it ^_^

 

Fourth: Is there anything I am missing about a real iconic Flesh Tearers army? I know they are known for jump packs, but also for quick vehicle assaults. I choose to go for the second part. But is there anything else I miss?

Well accually there isnt alot of fluff saying we use loads of JPs from what I have read its been more footslogging our in transports but yeah we will have JP's, oh and we Fight Dinosaurs with our bare hands in our downtime.

[Prosedragon]

Flesh Tearers are supposed to be pretty Spartan in their adornment, so if you're looking for an accurate representation of how they'd look I wouldn't use any fancy bits. Even for their Sanguinary guard, if you chose to use them, I would do regular armor and jump packs, and just use the Sanguard weapons. Use the money you save to bitz order some chainaxes. The only exception to the no fancy bits would be terminator honors on veterans.

 

As to differentiating the models - the thunder hammer will be a dead giveaway as to who's your sergeant, same for heavy weapons and devastators.

[SamaNagol]

According to Black Tide, Flesh Tearer Veterans have gold helmets.

 

Other than that they are black helms.

[Brother-Captain Devlonir]

Thank you for the answers so far! Let me reply a bit:

 

About the color schemes:

A very good point about the DC. If I focus on a different tint of black and the red crosses and make sure not to highlight these on my assault marines. The lack of the chapter sign on the DC will mean I'll also need to point this out more on my assault Marines.

 

I like the idea of the colored stripes instead of the full colored helmets. Going for no stripe for the assault marines (as they are more the basic marines seeing they are non-jumppacked) and a golden or white stripe and kneepad for the Vets sounds pretty nice to make them stand out.

 

Speaking of Vets: Heroic Intervention is nice indeed, but 10 points for each jump pack isnt. Also, I want my Vets to be support for Seth. I am not 100% sure here, but does heroic intervention also work when deep striked through a Drop Pod?

 

And another thing by the way: This is more a general BA thing. I have played a bit with my old DC models in a Rhino, and I find that they are great if they get dropped in the right spot, but horrible if you can't get them there. I was considering using their Relentless rule and make 4-5 of my DC marines actually carry Boltguns and loose 1 attack in melee for more versatility and usefulness at longer range. What are people's thoughts on DC with boltguns?

[SamaNagol]

I would advise that, instead of spending points on Vanguard, you would be better off taking an Honour Guard. They have the untargettable Sanguinary Novitiate and access to the Chapter Banner which are both golden. Admittedly they are only a 5 man squad, but those 5 with Seth will take on nearly any opposition easily enough.

[Whitefireinferno]

I plan on having 5 of my 10 DC with bolters and one will have a TH the other 5 one will be PW/pistol and the other4 will be CCW/BP running in a trans of some sort most likely a LRC in playtest they have worked Great. I would also suggest the HG over the VAS and nope no HI on a pod

[Brother-Captain Devlonir]

Thanks for the advice Sama. But when it comes to the game board there is actually a simple reason I want full second rhino. To give the enemy that horrible thing called: choice.

 

If I charge ahead with only 1 really dangerous rhino full of DC, it will be shot down and it will be the prime target.. keep them away from me!

If there are 2 rhinos storming down the map. 1 with a DC in and another with a VAS + Sang Priest + Seth in, they will be forced to choose which target to pick off in that 1, maybe 2 turns they have untill the rhinos are in their face.

 

The enemy, unless if they are very shooty and/or lucky, will not be able to pick off both fully packed transports before the fun begins.

 

Now, if I only had 1 of those rhinos, or 2 rhinos but 1 had RAS, the choice would always be simple: Make sure the DC doesn't get close enough! Now, making sure the DC stays away means you still get another rhino in your face with equally dangerous assault troops in there.

 

That is the idea actually.

[wookielips]

i'd suggest putting the powerfist on a DC model rather than the chaplain. you are losing a free power-weapon giving the chappie the fist.

[SamaNagol]

A Rhino with a full honour guard and Seth in it presents a very imminent threat.

 

Putting a power fist on a Chaplain is arguably the biggest waste of points you could muster as well.

 

And you'll find it isn't very difficult to stop 2 Rhinos with today's competitive builds. Lots of melta/rocket launchers/lances and lascannon.

 

You have to look at what job you want each unit to do, and a 10 man squad of DC and Vanguard is often overkill. That means you are over-spending on your hammer units and under-spending on your ranged support and scoring units.

 

In an objectives game I'd have no problem completely ignoring your 2 nasty CC units in Rhinos and making sure I wiped out the 10 bodies which can claim objectives in their tin foil AV11 transports. You need a bit more balance in your list.

[Brother-Captain Devlonir]

Hmmm.. just had a look at the honor guard and it is indeed a very nice thing to add with Seth in a Rhino. Might just go and do that instead of go for the Vanguard Veterans. Could open up some points for a Furioso with Drop Pod (to put a big LoS blocking thing in front of the rhino charge path)

 

Another good point is also on the scoring units. Possibly going for a small jumpy Assault Squad could be the way to go to fill points untill 1500/1650.

 

About the 2 Rhinos.. I somehow doubt that still to get them off with heavies before they are too close. 18 inch movement means 6+ in melee, add a smoke launcher for invulnerable saves as they are still in transit and in my testing games with old models so far it has been a very strong way to get my models in the face of the enemy.

 

Still though, adding a Furioso as other heavy weapon target you cannot ignore could possibly be an even better way to go.

Then there is the option of Bikes and/or Land Speeders to use as tank hunters as well.

Or go the (Baal) Predator road for another bit of long range fire support to go with the 2 lascannon razorbacks.

 

By the way, why is the power fist a waste on the Chaplain? The way I read it, the PF goes next to the Power Weapon and casts only 15 points. Alright, you can't use both at the same time, but some stuff your DC will be fighting will want an extra power fist over another power weapon (monsters and vehicles mostly). I like the option of having both on one char and that it is 10 points cheaper than the DC version of the same weapon.

 

Still, thanks for the advice in saving points on the Vanguard Veterans and using an Honour Guard. It is a cool thing to add, but maybe rather take a smaller one with jump packs vs stuffing them in a Rhino.

 

Short question about the HG though: I assume Flesh Tearers don't have them running around in Gold Armor right? :-P

[Vilicate]

Putting a power fist on a Chaplain is arguably the biggest waste of points you could muster as well.

 

I'm curious to hear you defend that statement. I would argue he is perhaps the *best* IC to put a powerfist on.

[SamaNagol]

Only Dante's Honour Guard are gold armoured. Other Honour Guard painted up in the codex are just red with gold helms.

 

While there is no official word on different helmet colour for Flesh Tearers, as I said they do mention in the James Swallow BA novel 'Black Tide' that the golden helmet of the Flesh Tearer marine sent to deliver Seth's message signalled him out as a member of Seth's own personal honour guard. But Black Library novels are not always taken as fact.

 

I apologise for being so brusque in my dismissal of the fist on the Chaplain. Yes, with only I4 it is not as much a waste of an option, and it does save 10pts. You are indeed correct. However, it means you have 10 models and only ever get to strike with one special weapon. Putting the Fist on a DC means he will be 'hidden' in the unit behind 8 other guys with FnP and will pretty much always get to strike.

 

Personally I would put Seth and an Honour Guard in a Razorback to give you extra ranger fire support for almost the same price as a Rhino so you don't waste empty transport slots.

 

I would definitely recommend adding either a Vindicator or an Autocannon/Lascannon sponson Predator as well if you can. You want to add in targets which will make your opponent make choices, and these will both do that. The Vindicator is a very big threat to almost all players' lists and will draw a lot of fire away from your nasty Assault units in their transports.

[Vilicate]

Only Dante's Honour Guard are gold armoured. Other Honour Guard painted up in the codex are just red with gold helms.

 

While there is no official word on different helmet colour for Flesh Tearers, as I said they do mention in the James Swallow BA novel 'Black Tide' that the golden helmet of the Flesh Tearer marine sent to deliver Seth's message signalled him out as a member of Seth's own personal honour guard. But Black Library novels are not always taken as fact.

 

I apologise for being so brusque in my dismissal of the fist on the Chaplain. Yes, with only I4 it is not as much a waste of an option, and it does save 10pts. You are indeed correct. However, it means you have 10 models and only ever get to strike with one special weapon. Putting the Fist on a DC means he will be 'hidden' in the unit behind 8 other guys with FnP and will pretty much always get to strike.

 

Personally I would put Seth and an Honour Guard in a Razorback to give you extra ranger fire support for almost the same price as a Rhino so you don't waste empty transport slots.

 

I would definitely recommend adding either a Vindicator or an Autocannon/Lascannon sponson Predator as well if you can. You want to add in targets which will make your opponent make choices, and these will both do that. The Vindicator is a very big threat to almost all players' lists and will draw a lot of fire away from your nasty Assault units in their transports.

 

I think this is some pretty solid advice. I had just assumed that the OP had not included equipment options on his units; if it's true that you haven't given your DC anything, definitely drop the PF on the chaplain to give them something; I like to give mine at least one power weapon and a thunderhammer.

 

Also, the need for something frightening for your opponent to shoot at is a must. A vindicator (or two!) would be a great addition to your list.

[Brother-Captain Devlonir]

Thank you for your advice so far, a single DC Rhino, 2 or 3 Razorbacks and a Vindicator/Predator sound like a nice armored assault army and will surely be worth it I am sure. If I go 3 Razorbacks (2 with RAS and 1 with Seth + HG) would it be worth it to make one without lascannons?

[Vilicate]

Honestly, I feel like if you have the parts for the models, I'd go with Assault Cannons or Las/Plasma turrets. I feel like those are the best options. Failing that, the Heavy Flamer conversion using baal sponson bits is pretty solid too.

[SamaNagol]

There's numerous threads about making different versions of the Razorback turrets. Assault Cannon is a great choice because with the 12" move they have a 36" threat range, statistically are just as good if not better at popping normal armour than the Lascannon and hugely more useful for taking on hordes of infantry.

 

I'd say go 2 TLAC and 1 TLLC for the razorbacks if you are running 3.

 

I myself have 5 Razorbacks in my 1500pt list along with a Vindicator and an Inquisitor in a Rhino, so am very mobile which I feel is important when looking to defeat a stronger enemy by weight of numbers, or redeploying to deny a short ranged shooty force easy kills. Sort of like Tau with weaker guns and stronger close combat units.

[Brother-Captain Devlonir]

Ok.. a small recap of the army idea then (no idea how much points it will come out as though and dont have my codex here..)

 

HQ:

Seth + Honor Guard mounted in TLAC Razorback

Elites:

Chaplain

Sang Priest wth Jump Pack and Pwr Wpn

Furioso Dread in Drop Pod

Troops:

DC (9) in Rhino (2 Power Fists, 2 plasma pistols, a few power weapons en 4-5 with bolters)

Assault Squad (5-6) in TLAC Razorback

Assault Squad (5-6) in TLLC Razorback

Assault Squad (5-10) with Jump Packs

Fast Attack:

Attack Bike Squadron with MMs

 

As said, all sergeants will use Thunder Hammers to be recognizable and iconic.

The Dread in Drop Pod will be there to drop in somewhere to block LoS for the immobile heavy weapons of the enemy and give my transports an extra turn to move in, or to Drop behind a firing line and start killing stuff in the rear.

The jumpy assault squad is there 100% to support the two in Razorbacks. To counter any large assault of the enemy towards one of the key points in the map. Not to mention to quickly take any scoring location if possible.

The Bike Squadron is a nice cheap way to get nasty and mobile Multi Meltas in and act as tank hunters.

 

Still enough Flesh Tearer iconic? Also, what are the thoughts on a DC Dread vs the Furioso Dread? And should I go for the HQ or Elite Chaplain?

[Captain Augustus]

Well I have just done the gold helmet style on my 1st assault marine so I will post a picture up of it tomorrow. I'm not the best painter but I like it an will be more than tabletop quality imo.

[Brother-Captain Devlonir]

Well I have just done the gold helmet style on my 1st assault marine so I will post a picture up of it tomorrow. I'm not the best painter but I like it an will be more than tabletop quality imo.

 

Oh yeah, that would be nice to see!

 

I'd love to see some great examples of painted FT's.. and not just normal models, also Honor Guard, Tanks, Bikes, Dreads, etc..

 

Just to get some inspiration

[SamaNagol]

Yeh, there's not a lot of examples of Flesh Tearer vehicles.

 

I am going to paint mine based with the red, and then have the corner panels, turrets and sponsons as black to try and emulate the power armour scheme.

[Captain Augustus]

Well I have just done the gold helmet style on my 1st assault marine so I will post a picture up of it tomorrow. I'm not the best painter but I like it an will be more than tabletop quality imo.

 

Oh yeah, that would be nice to see!

 

I'd love to see some great examples of painted FT's.. and not just normal models, also Honor Guard, Tanks, Bikes, Dreads, etc..

 

Just to get some inspiration

 

Yea no worries, like I said I'm not the best painter but it should give you a rough idea

[kollar]

I'm curious to hear you defend that statement. I would argue he is perhaps the *best* IC to put a powerfist on.

 

Because he is an IC, and thus can be picked out. By giving him a weapon that fights at I1, you are almost certainly ensuring that he will be the target of a large number of attacks, killing him before he even has a chance to attack. You also "lose" the power weapon attacks that he has already wrapped in his base cost. Byt putting the PF on the DC member instead, you ensure he can't be "sniped" before he gets to attack, and also means you are free to use the power weapon on the Chaplain.

 

You are, in essence "wasting points" by putting the power fist on the chaplain. I think SamaNagol was dead on in his criticism.