Orc strat

[Rybnick]

What is the best counter to the Orc kan wall build that has overrun my LGS. If I recal the guy I'm playing tonight runs a list of 6-9 kans, 1 bigmech, 90 boys, snikrot and kommandos, and 1 truk w/deathrolla and 5 mega nobs inside.

 

I don't have quite everything I'd like to model wise for this type of army (I ordered what I'm missing online but it hasn't come yet sadly). Currently based on what I own right now my list looks like this:

 

HQ

Reclusiarch - 155

-JP

 

Elite

Sanguinary Priest x2 - 155

- JP

- 2x Power Weapon

 

Sternguard - 240

- 5x Combi-flamer

- Razorback w/ TL Assault Cannon

 

Furioso Dread - 170

- Blood Talons

- Heavy Flamer

- Drop Pod

 

Troops

5 man ASM x2 - 350

- Flamer

- 2x Power Weapon

- Razorback w/ TL Assault Cannon

 

10 man ASM - 235

- 2x Meltagun

- Power Fist

 

Fast Attack

Baal Pred - 160

- HB Sponsons

- Storm Bolter

- Dozer Blade

 

Heavy Support

Predator - 135

- LC Sponsons

 

10 man Devastator Squad - 210

- 4x ML

 

total 1810

 

I realize it's not ideal but it's essentially everything I have to work with at the momment (I do have a Mephiston model, but haven't tried to squeeze him in yet, would he be a better HQ choice in this instance?), and due to Amazon taking forever to ship my order to me (why anyone would choose to ship only via USPS is beyond me) I'm stuck with this unless I can borrow some proxies from friends tonight.

 

General thoughts are to have everything on the field on turn 1 to pump out as many shots as possible. for the D-pod it's either dropped empty on an objective or with the dread inside @ a midfield flank location. I have no concerns about the 30 man boyz squads, my first shooting target will be his truck as it needs to die asap. combat squading the dev's will allow me to split up their shooting at multiple targets. the 10 man ASM will likely go after kans or nobs depending on what looks better (should they have a different loadout to be reliable kan killers?)

 

Any thoughts or suggestions are most appreciated. I'll try and post up a batrep tomorrow after our game this evening as well.

[Red Fury]

1810 total? What size game are you actually playing, 1850?

 

Yeah I'd put Mephiston in there for sure. You don't really have a super killy OTT deathstar unit without him. I also think you are missing a bit of ranged antitank firepower. You may swap an ass cannon or two for TLLC on the razors, it would go well on the sternguards ride at least. I'd give the stern a couple combi meltas too, just in case.

If you end up with points left over to get to 1850 and no more models, I'd give all the ICs either Infernus pistols or hand flamers, probably keep them all the same since you'll be proxying them.

 

-Fury

[Rybnick]

Yes this is an 1850 game, sorry about that I meant to mention that I was 40pts under my target but forgot. I did a semi-rewrite with Meph included.

 

HQ

Mephiston - 250

 

Elite

Corbulo - 105

 

Sanguinary Priest - 75

- JP

 

Sternguard - 240

- 3x Combi-flamer

- 2x Combi-melta

- Razor w/ TL Assault Cannon

 

Furioso Dread - 170

- Blood Talons

- Heavy Flamer

- Drop Pod

 

Troops

5 man ASM x2 - 280

- Flamer

- Power Weapon

- Razor w/ TL Flamer

 

10 man ASM - 235

- 2x Meltagun

- Power Fist

 

Fast Attack

Baal Pred - 150

- Assault Cannon

- HB Sponsons

- Dozer Blade

 

Heavy Support

Pred - 135

- Autocannon

- LC Sponsons

 

10 man Dev squad - 210

- 4x ML

 

Total 1850

 

From what I've seen previously from this orc player he pretty much sets his line up and then marches straight towards any objectives on my side of the board.

 

I don't really want to play entirely shooty as it doesn't feel very BA to me. My Angels Encarmine want to soften him up then rush in on a final gory charge for victory. Planning on jumping the 10 man ASM w/ priest and Mephy up behind the 3 razors, and dread (likely only moving 12 inches first turn to give me some firing befire the mob hits). The Baal wil lscout forward and pump fire into a boyz squad on a flank, then fall back as needed while pumping daka into orcs. combat squad the devs to split their fire, they along with my heavy pred focus first on popping his truck and then on Kans (also have to keep them away from the board edge to avoid Snikrot). I plan on being within assault range by turn 3 with my slow advance and his all out advance meeting in a bloody encounter about midfield.

 

In a perfect world that's how I see it. Any one else have any other thoughts/critiques/tactics?

[angel of justice]

target priority would be truck cans then anything that is green.

 

you have a lot of anti armour in your army so it shouldn't be a problem taking down the truck or cans at your discretion, however 90 boys will be trouble if they overrun you be sure to use your flamers to best effect. Snikrot will most likely come after your devastator squad but unless there are burnas in the squad there are no power weapons so i would have a sanguinary priest with your devastators and your unit should be able to handle that pretty well.

[Sorien]

I think you're worrying too much about the kans and not enough about the boys. You simply don't have enough punch to deal with units of 30 either by shooting or CC. Even mephiston, at best, gets tied up in combat for 3-4 phases before wiping out a unit..if he survives the hidden PK that is. Even 4 missile templates isn't a big deal..as half the hits won't wound and there is always the KFF save.

 

The only threat you have is the blood talons, and assuming everything is armed with rokkits all it takes is 1 immobilized result to remove that threat. And blood talons are not that big of a threat to kans anyway (remember no re-rolling armor pens) so putting kans in your way will work as well.

 

Reality is flamers don't work that well against a good ork player unless 1. you play lash or 2. he just assaulted a vehicle and is all bunched up.

 

I would personally go with a 2nd TLAC/HB baal instead of a normal pred. It can still threaten the kans (squadron means immobilized is destroyed so HB are still good) and gives you flexibility to kill up to 10 orks a turn. The only downside is the range..rokkits are also 24". Mow down boys with the Baals while the ML take shots at the kans, and hope he does not roll above average on the KFF.

[Rybnick]

Thanks for the responses guys. Sorien I think your right that I have a little too much AT so switching the Pred to a Baal makes sense. I can still pump out those rockets at the kans and it would really increase my boyz killing capacity. In regards to Snikrot targetting my Dev's thats one reason I took 10 so I could have two squads, I plan on deploying them away from the board edge so maybe Snikrot will have a jucier target somewhere else. He does usually have a burna or two in with Snikrot so an SP with them would be less valuable. I'm planning on Corbulo sticking with the Sternguard and the JP priest with my JP ASM. I'm toying with the idea of dropping the dread in favor of more Asscans on the Razors, and possibly a landspeeder (provided I can bum one from a friend).

[SamaNagol]

Surely the Predator with Sponsons is perfect for taking down units of Kans?

[Glendor]

I would keep the dread with blood talons, I do not have alot of experience with 40k but in the two games I have used them they will on average kill about 5-10 NECRONS, this means without the 4+ save from the res orb, there will be alot more orks dying. I love blood talons!

[Priest33]

yeap Furioso's are awesoem against orks. S6 means you can even blow up a trukk with them in cmose combat and they have a melta for poping transports then assaulting the goo inside.

 

Another thing is Killa Kans are only bs3 so hitting on 4's not bad but still gives you a chance that they wont even hit with shooting. Baal preds are also great for taking down orks be they trukks or mobs of boys. As remember rending is insta pen.

[Whitefireinferno]

Hell with talons you can still bash to bits a Wagon since in CC against AV things without a WS you bash the back armour and yeah also my other advide is Kill em with FIRE it really has worked wonders for me in the past so yeah.

[lorider2]

I'm not sure about the pod and the need for a priest and corbs. You don't have that many boots on the ground to really need both. I don't even feel your army would be that spread out. Change just a few things around and you can get a second dread which I feel is great against orcs. Either against kans, nobs, or boys any space marine dread seems to be a great option to me, especially our talons. I'd also probably switch out the devs, for say a pred and speeder (mostly distraction/bait) - but that's just me as 4 MLs will certainly wreck kans.

[Rybnick]

Thought I would post a quick bat-rep from last nights encounter. 1850 orc vs Angels Encarmine.

 

My list was as above in post#3 minus the drop pod (which in hind sight might have been a good thing to have)

 

Orcs were

1 trukk w/ 4 mega armor nobs and boss mech (forget what he's called)

3 squads of 30 boys each

2 squadrons of 3 kanz

1 dread

 

We drew dawn of war, I placed my objective in a building near a corner of the table and he placed his along the board edge opposite my objectove. I got first turn and took it, I deployed 2 ASM razors midfield about 5 inches from the center of the board with Mephiston behind them, and he deployed 60 boys behind some trees near the corner of his half of the board. He failed to seize initiative.

 

Turn 1

I kept nothing in reserve and placed my dread, baal and sternguard razor w/ priest on either side of the building housing my objective. my Dev squads came in midfield with my pred just to their right and my 10 man ASM w/ priest jumped up behind mephy. My shooting didn't amount to much as he rolled excellent cover saves so I only took out 3 boyz. He rolled his entire force onto the board as well grouping his truck and 1 squad of kanz behind a power plant in his corner his dred and 2nd kanz squad mid field opposite my Razors and his last 30 boyz to the right of them. His shooting faired much better as he immobilized 1 of my ASM razors. His troops slogged forward slowly.

 

Turn 2

Slowly pushed my ASM razor forward 6 pumping out some fire into a boyz squad and killing 2. pushed my sternguard razor forward 6 disembarked and shot into the same squad killing 5. Dred ran forward preparing to assault a boyz squad next turn. Baal fired at his truk but failed to do anything, heavy pred shot at the truk as well but he passed his cover save. Dev squad shot at his 2nd Kaz squad but failed to produce. Mephy hopped forward w/ wings and gambling to get into charge range of his dread rolled a 5 on his run when he needed a 6 so he was out of assault range and left in the wide open til next turn. 10 man ASM jumped up behind some cover going kan hunting.

the immobilized razors squad got out and moved up towards some boyz. His shooting once again was very lucky, he managed to get 1 rocket to hit my dread and of course blew it up. Managed to take down 3 sternguard, shot an entire 30 boyz at mephy and didnt put a single wound on him (something like 65 shots).

 

Turn 3

Baal moved back and shot at his trukk but again failed to roll 6's, sterguard razor shot at the truk as well but still no 6's, Sternguard moved up and unloaded 2 combi-flamers into a squad of 20-ish boyz killing 8, during assault they assaulted and killed 5 more making them no longer fearless they swung back and killled the priest and 1 guard the lone mand left passed leadership. The immobilized 5 man squad ran further but still too far away to do anything. 10 man asm hopped closer to the cans while staying out of their assault range. Meph hopped up within 6 of his dread and shot his pp at it for fun but missed, then during assault charge in and blew him up handily taking 5 boyz out in the resulting blast, but no wounds himself. Pred fired at his trukk again but still produced nothing. His shooting once again was pretty successful immobilized and blew the gun off the second ASM razor, Immobilized the sternguard razor near my objective (it was contesting it at least), Snikrot rolled in behind my dev's but was having an off-day and when he assaulted only managed to kill 2 boltgunners, while I managed to kill 3 kommandos they passed leadership so we dug in there. 25ish sqaud of boys assaulted Mephy he took 5 of them out but took 3 wounds himself (1 from perils and 2 from a snake-eyes 2+ save roll on the only 2 wounds he actually took from them) Finally to end the turn on a high note his trukk rammed my baal destroying it, and unloading the meganob's inside.

 

Turn 4

10 man ASM hopped back towards my objectives in between my immobilized razors, hoping to make it to my objective. The last sternguard killed 1 more orc before being butchered himself. The footslogging 5 man moved up and flamered the vitories 4 boys+nob killing the boys and putting 1 wound on the nob, then during assault charged in killing the nob. My 2nd 5 man hopped out of their immobilized razor and charged into the squad attacking mephy killing 8 boys, Mephy killed 3 more, and took another wound. Pred shot at a Mega nob and vaporized one with it's LC. Dev's continued with Snikrot killing 2 more commandoes but taking 4 casualties themselves. 1st 26ish boys marched towards my razor at my objective but were just outside assault range. Kanz moved into assault the 5 man squad assaulting the squad assaulting mephiston (phew). They and Mephiston managed to kill off the boyz squad and the consolidate forward and lost 3 men to the kanz and passed leadership. Snikrot finished off the devs and moved towards my pred but missed assault range. his mega nobs assaulted a 5 man squad and killed them off after they put 1 wound on them.

 

Turn 5

Mephy flew up toward the mega nobs and shot his pp doing nothing. 10 man ASM hopped up and then assaulted the 3 kanz on 2 marines killing 2 kanz the last kan killed off the last 2 from the 5 man squad. Pred's LC vaporized another Nob bringing the squad down to 2 nobs and the warboss or whomever (he had 2 wounds that I forgot to mention earlier and don't want to go back and add :)). Meph charged the nobs w/ unleased rage and sword of sanguinius and annihilted the last 2 nobs but the warboss got the best of him on his final wound. his 2nd squad of kanz asaulted my 10 man ASM they managed to fell one kan before the other hit back killing 4 w/ power klaws they failed leadership and began ran 5inches towards my board edge. The warboss ran forward but didnt reach my pred. Snikrot assaulted the pred destroying a LC and shaking it. his last 20ish squad of boys assaulted my immobilzied razor and blew it up as well as taking the objective.

 

Turn 6

rolled a 3 so the game continued but I called it as the weather was getting bad (we had some tornados in the area, darned Oklahoma weather) and it was pretty obvious that the orcs had my number by this point.

 

All in all I learned a lot from the encounter, and it being only my 3rd game I think I faired decently. I should not have place my objective where I did it should have been closer to where the mass of my troops deployed. Also having my dread destroyed before it could do anything of consequence really hurt, as well as the immobilized razor on turn 1. My shooting dice rolls were pretty horrible and he had a good amount of cover to hide behind.

 

This was my frist game with Mephiston and I have to say I rather liked him. He is an absolute beast and even with only a 2+ still fairly resiliant (granted I was up against orc shooting but still). I should have deepstruck with my 10 man ASM squad and ouflanked with my Baal. deepstriking the 10 man could have made a huge difference in the outcome. I somehow neglected to fire smoke after my first razor movement phase which was a mistake as well.

 

I think I've decided that my stance with razors will be to keep them nice and cheap from now on and give them either TLHB's or TLHF's. I only ran them this way in this game as I didn't have the models to run anything else. I'm looking forward to a rematch once I've got a set up I'm happy with and a firmer grasp on the rules and flow of my army. Not to mention more of them painted. So far I've completed a 10 man ASM squad, pred and 2 razors. From playing with them last night I have to say it's much much mor fun to have completed models on the table, Mephistons pewter body got fairly annoying by the end of the match!

 

Thanks for reading and any C&C are most appreciated.

[Glendor]

As remember rending is insta pen.

 

What do you mean? I though that rending was an extra d3?

[lorider2]

Thanks for the barep. The devs just seem like such a points sink to me, especially in DoW. Also for DoW the transport counts as a unit so only one razor should be deployed. I often prefer deploying nothing and going second - that way he has nothing to fire at in turn 1 and everything will be smoked in turn 2 (though that can go both ways). As good as razors are, for HG and stern I question their use. If it was a rhino you could of moved forward 6 fired the stormbolters (I like having 2) and have the stern shot from inside the protected rhino.

 

Baal moved back and shot at his trukk but again failed to roll 6's,

 

Are not truks AV 10? I'm surprised it took so much fire and smashed into your baal so successfully. Was it a battlewagon?

[sp4rky]

As remember rending is insta pen.

 

I think what Priest means is that with the weapon being str 6, a roll of 6 gets you to 12. If the thing you're attacking is AV12 then no matter what you roll on the additional D3, you've penned.

[Jarakin]

Opened this thread only to be disappointed there's no pictures of an Orc inspired Fender Strat. :lol:

[Rybnick]

Are not truks AV 10? I'm surprised it took so much fire and smashed into your baal so successfully. Was it a battlewagon?

Yes it was a battlewagon with a death rolla, I just fail at remembering names of Orcish units. I agree that dev's were a less optimal choice than other's available to the BA but I was playing with essentially every model I currently own so that limited my choices. Ideally I would have taken something else, possibly another ac/lc pred.

[Leonaides]

Fight a smaller game. If you're having to stretch your models to suit him - how about making him trim his list to suit you! See what he takes out if you go for 1500 pts. A couple of big boys mobs? Maybe one of those kans mobs? Maybe the Battlewaggon? Maybe less Nobs?

 

When you have to use every model you own, you're guaranteed to be using units that arent particularly good against the enemy you're facing. I'd suggest if you have 1850pts worth of marines, fight at 1250-1500 pts so you have some flexibility to use different models. When you end up with 2500 play up to 2k competitively and go the whole hog for fun games...

[Rybnick]

1850 is kind of the jumping off point army size wise at my local game store. I have the stuff on order that I feel I was missing in this game (should arrive today actually) I had just hoped it would arive on tuesday :P I'll be ready for him next time, and should give him a much better match.

[Priest33]

round here its usually 1750 point matches.. 1850 would be interesting.. wonder what I could get for an extra 100 points

 

With the rending thing I meant that against av 10 (truk) your insta pen them with rending, against battlewagos side armor then a rending is an insta pen as well. you even have the chance of pen'ing against av14. Rending is great really.