Chaos Lord

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

I have a conversion planned for my Chaos Lord and some of his war gear is already set because of it (the conversion is based off of what I want him to have). What I am having trouble with is what my weapons will be. My Lord will have wings and I want him to be an all rounder as in he can handle infantry and tanks. Now I know this is limited in that I could either take a combi-flamer and a power fist or i could take a combi-melta and either a Khornate, undevided or Nurgle daemon weapon. Now these are just what I can see doing, does anyone know of a good way to run a winged chaos lord thats fairly good at both horde and tank killing?

[minigun762]

Considering what you are looking for, I would go with this:

 

Chaos Lord, Wings, Combi-Melta and either Nurgle DW or Undivided Daemon Weapon.

 

I prefer the Combi-Melta over Meltabombs because you often have a much better chance of hitting something due to BS5, plus it gives you the option of popping open a transport then assaulting the stuff inside.

 

Never take a Power Fist for your HQ unless its totally for a theme list, its a waste of your I5.

[Xeonic]

Basically going to parrot everything minigun says, but anyways, a Daemon weapon of any flavor and a combi-melta -or- meltabombs and twinned lightning claws(MoK optional) are the only really viable lord builds I can think of...anything else and you're always better off with another choice.

You're often off with a better choice anyways, but chaos lords offer awesome conversion potential and their CC prowess is occasionally stunning(daemon weapon randomness being what it is). :P

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

Ok well I do also have a Daemon prince in my army.

 

I think what I'll do is take wings, a combi-melta and an undevided daemon weapon. But this brings up another question, I am wanting to put my lord into a unit of 10 raptors (I know alot of chaos players dont use them but they work pretty well for me). The squad has 2 meltaguns and the champion has a power fist and all have the mark of Khorne. Now are there any restrictions about a character without the MoK joining that unit? I know if he does he wont be affected by the +1 attack but can he actually join the unit?

[Arnil]

I am not positive on the rules but as long as you don't have Marks of Slannesh on the Lord you should be fine...Khorne Hates Slannesh right?

[minigun762]

There is no ruling saying that he can't join the squad. Hell even if he did have Mark of Slaanesh, technically he still can join.

 

It sounds like a pretty good squad, 3 Melta shots and the Power Fist will give you a good punch against armor and the volume of attacks + DW will knock down infantry. The one thing to be concerned about is that you are LD10 with no reroll or ATSKNF, so if you lose combat and have a bad roll, you might find yourself running.

[Giga]

If I ever make a chaos lord for my budding nurgle army (quite possible, someday), he'll be equipped with terminator armor, dual lightning claws, and mark of nurgle. His purpose would be to accompany a group of 4 terminators or a bunch of plague marines in a land raider. He wouldn't be expected to survive any single battle.

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

Well I'm not exactly looking for a suicide lord. I would like for him to be able to stay alive through at least half the game and I think I'll use his squad in a support role. I'll hold them back and use them to aid the units that need it and if i have the oppurtunity I'll kill a few tanks and heavys.

[Giga]

I don't think it's possible to make a non-suicide lord.

 

His invulnerable save is 5+, and his base toughness is 4. This means he's very likely to be owned by power weapon attacks and almost certain to die to a single power fist wound. Add to it the fact that he's probably gonna take a wound from his own daemon weapon every now and then, and you come to the conclusion that a chaos lord is hardly the most durable of ICs.

 

What's more, chaos lords can't really shoot as they're pretty much specialized for assault. Hence, avoiding those power weapons and power fists becomes more or less impossible.

 

Which is why I subscribe to the terminator armor+dual LCs+mark of nurgle philosophy. With T4(5) he'll be taking much fewer wounds from normal and power weapons alike. 2+ save will keep him alive against regular shooting and hitting. The dual LCs mean that he's very likely to kill at least some enemy models before they get to strike + the LCs can't rebel against their master.

 

But at the end of the day, that chaos lord is prolly gonna kill a few models and then bite the dust. The only way to keep him alive for the entire battle is to pay special attention to power fists (to keep them locked in combat with other models and the lord not in base-to-base with the power fist sergeants), and not to let him get into combat with MCs and units with lots of power weapons.

[minigun762]

But at the end of the day, that chaos lord is prolly gonna kill a few models and then bite the dust. The only way to keep him alive for the entire battle is to pay special attention to power fists (to keep them locked in combat with other models and the lord not in base-to-base with the power fist sergeants), and not to let him get into combat with MCs and units with lots of power weapons.

 

I agree with your point Giga but I think there is more that can be done to mitigate the risk.

1) Send your Chaos Lord in with strong assault element like Berzerkers. Now instead of killing 2-3 Marines on the charge, you're much more likely to wipe out the majority of the squad, including that pesky Power Fist. Its not always going to happen and sometimes you will get squished but it puts things in your favor. Also remember that your average Tac Squad Sarge has 2 swings, hitting on 4's, wounding on 2's and passing a 5++ save. This comes out to 0.55 wounds on average which means it should take 2 rounds of combat to get lucky enough to Fist your HQ and if you can kill him before that, you're typically safe.

 

2) Once you deploy your squad from their Rhino, break off the Chaos Lord and send him towards a shooting squad by himself. This is a great reason to include Wings, as you can extend your threat radius. Say you're fighting Orks, you leave your Berzerker buddies to charge that 30 Boyz squad while you hop off and charge the Lootas over there. Chances are good you'll run them down or at the very least stop them from firing. The same can be done with Long Fangs, Tacticals w/o Power Fists, most any IG squad etc etc.

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

hence why I am putting him in a unit of raptors. plus it goes with my fluff (not Night Lords)

[Sanctjud]

What is this Chaos Lord you speak of?

All I see are Daemon Princes and Sorcerers... <_<

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

:lol: well at least I have one of those

[Giga]

@minigun762

 

That's pretty much the way I use most close-combat HQs. The thing with chaos lords is that they are a lot less survivable then most other assault HQs. Loyalists have access to iron halos, belts of russ, storm shields, thunderwolves, FNP, sage of the bear, etc. while the chaos lord is generally quite limited when it comes to survivability. Hence, while lords aren't pushovers, they're still a lot more susceptible to those power fists and the like.

 

Also, can lords with wings actually ride in land raiders? Isn't a lord with wings same as jump infantry ie. not-transportable?

[Brother Nihm]

Also, can lords with wings actually ride in land raiders? Isn't a lord with wings same as jump infantry ie. not-transportable?

Q: Does taking 'Wings' classify a model as jump-infantry?

A: No, it simply allows the model to move as jump-infantry.

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

But if you are smart about it you can avoid those powerfists and power weapons as well as allocating those wounds to his supporting squad

[Brother Nihm]

Unless you're bending the rules I don't see how that is possible.

You are required to react after each assault phase (e.g. pile in) and if you hold him back he's useless.

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

Bending the rules has nothing to do with it. Shooting a unit with heavy weapons to weaken it and then assaulting it with 10 khorne raptors and an initive 5 chaos lord with a daemon weapon to finish of the survivors isnt exactly bending the rules or holding your character back. Now yes it may not always completly wipe out the enemy unit but theres a good chance it will be severly depleted. And allocating wounds isnt manipulating the rules either, thinking smart and using strategy is how you can avoid those dangerous weapons.

[Justicar Valius]

Don't IC rules mean you can be picked out (why I love 3rd ed retinue rules for my grandmaster). The thing is does mark of nurgle act like a bike for Instant death or actually like T5? If the latter giveing Nurgle to the lord would be a great choice.

 

Remember if you want to math hammer how likely you are to win against a unit: Heresy combat calculator You'll see how scary it can be against 29 Orks + Nob with a power klaw. the answer, VERY.

 

Sadly I don't know any chaos stats, so do it yourself then maybe post the results, be afrai of the nobz be very afraid.

[Sanctjud]

No, Bikes and MoN do not increase the base toughness, so str 8 will still kill ID them.

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

Don't IC rules mean you can be picked out (why I love 3rd ed retinue rules for my grandmaster). The thing is does mark of nurgle act like a bike for Instant death or actually like T5? If the latter giveing Nurgle to the lord would be a great choice.

 

Remember if you want to math hammer how likely you are to win against a unit: Heresy combat calculator You'll see how scary it can be against 29 Orks + Nob with a power klaw. the answer, VERY.

 

Sadly I don't know any chaos stats, so do it yourself then maybe post the results, be afrai of the nobz be very afraid.

 

I stand corrected. I misunderstood the section about allocating wounds and the section about ICs being treated as a seperate unit in terms of wound allocation. But what I said about swamping the enemy with shots and attacks still stands. If you shoot a unit and cuase enough damage and then assault the survivors with a good assault force (above mentioned khorne raptors with lord) chances are you will wipe out that unit before they get a chance to attack back.

 

Now as the dice gods and the gods of fate like to be fickle in their favor this may not always work out and it is a different story for ICs and such. But all im saying is that if you play wisely you can avoid those weapons which will take out your lord and if you cant avoid them then just pray that the gods favor your ++ role. And if not then thats a part of the game, you never know what will happen on the battle field and I personally am not in it to hands down destroy everyone I play against. For me half the fun is seeing what does happen, if my lord cuts the head from a rampaging carnifex or is cut down himself by a lowly guardsman.

 

As for the ork nobz I field a unit in my Iron Skull clan and think everyone should be afraid of them :lol