Melee "trickery" query.

[Velkairiwyth]

I have a query regarding casualty removal in melee (Not seen an answer with a brief search :P).

 

Suppose you have a power fist in the unit - you inflict a number of wounds on the enemy unit with your normal attacks... the enemy removes his casualties... is it possible for your opponent to isolate the powerfist so it never gets to attack back by removing casualties that the model is in base contact with (and I suppose the models in contact with anyone he can "tag onto" within 2")? Or would all units that were engaged as they charged in be able to strike the unit?

 

Im putting together a list with Calgar in, I want to make sure I work out if its worthwhile waiting to use his fists, or if i should strike first with the power sword at I5 and risk causing only a couple of wounds v possibly not getting to strike (cos fists = the love...).

 

I think this could split into two queries:

 

1) The situation above with fists in a unit.

2) A second unit fighting at same I - but attacking second. (Im sure in this case since the units are hitting at the same tim they would hit whomever would have been in contact with them...)

 

Its more situation 1 Im concerned about as per my explanation above!

 

e.g of 2) Unit of Banshees and an Avatar charge tyranid warriors... I opt to strike with surviving banshees first on the basis I want to see the avatar squash the unit... he removes the casualty in contact with my avatar. voila - avatar cant attack, he wins combat... (This is an example of what I was explaining above, not sure if it was a misunderstanding or some evil trickery on his part but its one of those little fun-breaker things :P)

 

(FYI: I can see the Banshees are I5 and Avatar I6 - so maybe I brought this on myself by screwing up initiative, but the query is still valid I think?)

 

Probably a silly and simple rules query, but my mind just isnt with it at the moment! ;)

[Thraxen]

Yes, your opponent can d this to deny you melee attacks, although you'd be doing a lot of damage for them to remove every enemy in base contact and 2" anyway.

 

It's no different from when you remove shooting casualties to deny an enemy a charge.

[jeffersonian000]

Per current 5th Ed rules, a unit that started close combat with the ability to attack that is still active on its initiative will still get its attacks, regardless of whether or not it's still in base contact with an enemy model. Just re-read the assault phase section of the BRB.

 

SJ

[JamesI]

Per current 5th Ed rules, a unit that started close combat with the ability to attack that is still active on its initiative will still get its attacks, regardless of whether or not it's still in base contact with an enemy model. Just re-read the assault phase section of the BRB.

 

SJ

Yep.

 

In 3rd and 4th it was possible to remove casualties to make sure the fist didn't fight. But now, if he was in base to base (or within 2 inches of a member of his unit that was in base to base) at the start of the combat he gets to fight, unless he dies before that or if the entire enemy unit is dead before his initiative 1.

[Hfran Morkai]

I take it this wouldn't apply to an IC who for some reason struck at a lower initiative? Because they count as a separate unit for combat purposes I can't see it working but they were engaged at the start of the combat.

 

(I like mine striking at initiative but there might be cases where it pops up)

[JamesI]

I take it this wouldn't apply to an IC who for some reason struck at a lower initiative? Because they count as a separate unit for combat purposes I can't see it working but they were engaged at the start of the combat.

 

(I like mine striking at initiative but there might be cases where it pops up)

If the IC was engaged at the start, he still gets to fight as long as he's alive and someone in the unit he was engaged with is still alive.

[thade]

If the IC was engaged at the start, he still gets to fight as long as he's alive and someone in the unit he was engaged with is still alive.

^ This.

 

Also, it's totally okay to allocate wounds and take saves on models other than the unit's PF model, provided there were not enough wounds to cover the whole unit. The PF must take saves allocated to him on his own, and if he fails but one, he's gone.

[Frosty the Pyro]

Who can hit who (aka is engaged) is decided before the assault (but after assault moves), initive 10.1 if you will. Nothing can change this (although there are powers/wargear/rules/whathave you that can reduce the number of attacks, sometimes even to zero).