Tell Me All About......

[Bannus]

TELL ME ALL ABOUT...

The Way of the Air Warrior


I refer you to this article as the foundation and introduction of the different ways to play Space Marine armies and this thread as an example of how I would like it to progress (except as it relates to Codex Space Marines instead of Grey Knights).

You may also find this thread helpful as well.


We want to know all about the air elemental combat style as it apply to Codex Space Marines. There are several different army types that can fit within each of these themes - let's explore them all. As with all of these threads, we want to keep the discussions focused and on topic. The more we stray or ask off-topic questions, the harder it is going to be for our volunteer editors to sift through the material and put together a concise article. Unnecessary posts will be deleted for clarity.

In this topic (as with all of them), we want to focus on those aspects that only apply to any Space Marine army.

Let the discussion begin............

[Arnil]

White Scars Biker List.

 

My personal favorite. It is both fun to play, and appealing to look at.

 

It is a very simple list. With vanilla marines one takes Kor'sarro Khan and puts everything on a bike.

 

Pros: Fast moving allowing for the last minute Turbo boost on to an objective tactic last turn. Denial of flank. Quickly change the theater of war in a single turn. Twin-linked Relentless Bolters. Tougher than a normal marine in close combat. Cover saves from turbo boosts! Fast moving heavy weapons on attack bikes.

 

Cons: Expensive, in both money and points. Smaller force, relies on NOT dying by moving too fast to hit or get stuck-in. Will get hurt by high strenght fast attack choices such as winged Blood Thirsters or Winged Hive Tyrants.

 

A Posteriori: It is better to take full squads of bikers with an attack bike (about 9 models total). They allow for the heavy weapons to survive longer and are ipso facto a useful unit.

[Paulochromis]

White Scars Biker List.

Was this supposed to be a link?

 

A Posteriori: It is better to take full squads of bikers with an attack bike (about 9 models total). They allow for the heavy weapons to survive longer and are ipso facto a useful unit.

Not at all sure about this - I think that MSU (Multiple Small Units) embodiesspirits the concept of Air better, especially in light of

-- enhanced manoeuvrability

-- better special weapon density

 

Cheers, Paul.

[Bannus]

Just an FYI - from the artcle I linked to above:

 

Air

An air army wants to out manoeuvre it's opponent, and is characterised by high mobility. Good Air armies are very fast, often at the expense of numbers.

 

Movement Phase

 

This the bit where Air armies try to win. They get to choose where and when they hit you, and will choose a time and place that limits any counter attack.

 

Shooting Phase

 

Unlike Fire and Earth, there is no strong tendency for Air to go shooting or assault, as both are well represented. Good Air armies do tend to specialise in one or the other, however.

 

Assault Phase

 

As above.

 

Example: Ravenwing.

 

Personal Comment: Played Air for a long time. Very intellectual style, and Air v Air battles are some of the most impressive to watch. Table size and the tactical scale of 40k limit the style greatly, however.

[Tutteman]

I have tried to play Air once or twice and I might start a new army with this aim in mind, I just prefer this idea of more thought on the field. However I'm not really that great a gamer.

 

But some things I'm told/remember is how important it is to use your mobility to deny the enemy the chance to actually fight. Unless you are going to win the fight, why are you in it? I believe Air generally ends up with a lower model count due to how points are spent on mobility rather than large numbers. Also it's easier I suppose to move five men into a good position then ten. (Just realised this is in the intro of Silent Requiem's take :P )

 

But basically lower numbers means you have less depth to take damage. So kill things quickly, otherwise you get bogged down. A unit of bikes charging a 30 strong mob of orks needs to make sure that they can kill the orks fast (1 turn preferably?) and then be able to get out before the rest of the ork army descends on them to mob them and you lose an expensive unit. Biker armies (mentioned above) are typical example, because with a biker captain they can be troops and so everything can be fast. Scout armies can take Storms. But then can only have 15 models if you max out and then you deprive yourself of the FA slots. I suppose you could mech the army, but I'd call this more of a Fire style.

 

Well thats my random ramblings done :RTBBB: Please correct me if I have the wrong idea. (I know I've been a bit more generalistic)

[Gamelli Streamfisher]

My outlook on "Air" or "Mobile" armies.

 

Air armies are much more difficult to play with then Earth armies because they rely more on tactical maneuvering and positioning rather then sheer volume of fire or number of attacks. Air armies invest heavy in transports and mobility at the expense of more models and firepower. Air armies use their mobility as a weapon in itself. An Air army will try to win by focusing their force on one element of the opposing force and crushing that element utterly. This process is repeated until the opposing force has been picked apart one piece at a time. This is basically the direct opposite of an Earth army.

[Arnil]

Another thing is the ability to tank shock models off the table in their deployment zone, literally killing in the movement phase. I did this to my buddy's chaos Chosen squad the other day with my land speeder. That land speeder then was close enough to his defiler i got an exploded result on the table which cut his greater slanneshi deamon down to one wound. Thus in a single turn with proper movement and a few lucky dice rolls i killed 10 chosens, one delifer, and half a deamon. The exploded result though killed a termie i had deep struck that turn, on the flip side the defile was right next to my biker squad and they all survived while my terminator died.....fail :huh:

[bystrom]

A land speeder's not a tank, and can't tank shock.

 

I play against a Saim-Hann eldar, and if I can't reduce his mobility, he has the ability to contest every objective on the board. The same could be said about most air armies, in that if they have mobile elements left, even when they're losing, they can still claim a draw by contesting objectives.

[death_incarnite]

as any general should do is analyse his own weaknesses one trick to fighting mechanised armies is cripple the tanks mid flow, what this means is if a blood angels rhino is trying to move quick to get its squad in to cover blow it up half way to its path, then the unit will be stuck in the open at regular speed easily attackable by your air units or gun lines.

[Arnil]

Shhhhhhhh!!! DOnt tell the chaos my land speeder cant do that!!! HAha okay so yeah i was wrong on that sorry. For future reference dont put that thing about land speeders in the tactics haha but it is still the fastest heavy weapon firebase you can have this side of blood angels!

[LardO'Blood]

My army is basically deploying small squads effectively, backing each tactical combat squad with a 5 man sternguard or terminator squad and using dreadnoughts and a LR for scare factor. I'm definitely not fire and to far away from water.

 

Air armies IMO have the most tactical options which to me = more fun. I have to emphasize the power of deep-striking units, the ability to place a unit where you want and skip 3 or 4 turns of maneuvering is extremely helpful. Regardless of your style, I find it important to have some sort of wildcard to kill stronger enemies. Two examples are a LR and a Chapter Master with honor guard.

[Bannus]

OK. As discussions of the general topic wear down, let's look at the next step:

 

What units would you include in your first 500 points of this style army and - more importantly - why?

[nurglez]

well, i believe air is more about how you play then what you play with, I rarely have a master plan before i sit down to the table, depending on where my opponent deploys, what the objective is and what they have determines my plan of attack.

 

Basically, having everything either in a vehicle or with jetpacks (with the advent of how popular mech is this should cover most sm/csm armies) would work for an air army id guess.

[LardO'Blood]

well, i believe air is more about how you play then what you play with, I rarely have a master plan before i sit down to the table, depending on where my opponent deploys, what the objective is and what they have determines my plan of attack.

Fully agree, I don't think speed is necessarily important with an air army, what I do is make my enemy prioritize and make your units "leave the table" behind cover while you get into position for a burst of assaults/firepower or objective taking.

[Ookami_81]

IMHO, there are units that are mandatory in a C:SM air army.

 

I would start my post by telling that in 500-750 pts it's hard to have a "style-oriented" selection. So I'm considering 1000-2500 pts range.

 

First, HQ. The best two are biker oriented, that is, depending on your playstyle (more conventional or very air-oriented):

- Biker captain with relic blade and hellfire rounds. artificer armour if you've got the points, but since the captain is not alone, it's not mandatory. Same goes for storm shield.

- Khan on Moondrakan. What else ? ^_^

 

Second, HQ companion. In medium points game (1000-1500) I tend to give him a full biker squad, in 2000pts + I love these:

- Biker command squad. Three flavours: shooty, assaulty, death star

Shooty: apothecary, 4 meltaguns/plasmaguns, eventually some storm shields and a banner.

Assaulty: apo, champion, 2 LCs, 1 PF/TH, 2-3 storm shields, banner.

Death Star: apo, champion (or not), banner, 2(3) LCs, 1 TH, 3 storm shields, 3(4) meltaguns.

 

The death star config is very expensive, but can be a total nightmare associated with the captain, or even more with Khan, and furious charge.

 

Air troops = bikes. I don't know well scout bikers, but friends told me they are excellent. For bikers, I recommend:

- PF biker sarge, 5 regular bikers, 2 meltabikers, 1 MM assault bike. Very dangerous vs tanks, and vs transports: shooting it to pieces before destroying the loadup in assault. If you combat squad you've got one light assaulty unit with the sarge, usefull to mop up very damaged enemy units, and a potent but fragile anti tank hunting unit. If you attach the biker captain to the assault component you've got a much better assault unit, but be careful, even with that it's not the kind of squad you put in the face of assault termies !

 

- PF biker sarge, 5 regular bikers, 2 plasmabikers, 1 HB assault bike. An excellent anti infantery air unit, but I tend to prefer the others because there are so many tanks to pop up these days... ;)

 

My 2cts. Have fun with the air style !

[Bannus]

well, i believe air is more about how you play then what you play with, I rarely have a master plan before i sit down to the table, depending on where my opponent deploys, what the objective is and what they have determines my plan of attack.

 

Basically, having everything either in a vehicle or with jetpacks (with the advent of how popular mech is this should cover most sm/csm armies) would work for an air army id guess.

Yes, it is about how you play - but that also influences the army build.

 

There are a number of ways I can see an Air army being built according to the C:SM list - Mechanized, Biker - even Drop Pod-based armies (with mobile support) can function using Air tactics.

[bystrom]

drop pods using air tactics? Please explain, it seems to me its the same as a scout army, they're both delayed deployment, but not too airy.

[Paulochromis]

There are a number of ways I can see an Air army being built according to the C:SM list - Mechanized, Biker - even Drop Pod-based armies (with mobile support) can function using Air tactics.

What about gating librarians?

Maybe teleporting termies?

[Ookami_81]

IMHO none of these solutions are "air-level mobility", except maybe gating librarians.

 

DS units cannot charge after deployment, drop pods are static after deploying.

 

The art of air army lies in mobility each single turn, allowing fast redeployment to avoid enemy troops/firepower concentrations, striking with nearly all your firepower on a weak or a capital point (Clausewitz's Schwerpunkt). Air army management is W40K's direct transposition of manoeuver warfare. You're outnumbered, generally underpowered, BUT you can apply your entire firepower on a single point in every place in the field of battle, avoiding many dispersed threats, in order to achieve surprise, shock and awe, and, more than everything, overwhelming destructive power LOCALLY.

 

If you want to achieve this in the world of W40K PA armies, at least for venilla marines, capable units are:

 

- (very) long range weaponry, better if rapidly redeployable, and that is:

1) Landspeeder Typhoons

2) Riflemen dreads or TLLC/ML ones

3) Predators, but just barely.

4) Mechanized devastator, but it's still a poor choice.

 

- very mobile troops with good firepower, and the ability to charge and firing to full efficiency most of the time

1) Bikes

2) It might be possible to see assault marines/vanguards like this, but....

 

- mobile short range heavy firepower

1) Vindicators, adding protection to the bikes and being protected by them (the beauty of it), and you can protect landspeeders and assault marines on the move also.

2) MM/HF Landspeeders

 

And that's it. Other units are not suitable to real air tactics. A pure air army should use:

1) Bikes as troops and of course captain on bike as HQ + eventually command squad on bike in 1500 pts +

2) Typhoons as Fast Attack.

3) Vindicators as Heavy Support, or dakka/combi Predators if you want to enhance your firebase, but you lack heavy protection for your bikes. Vindic / Pred is a choice like more mobile protection / more static reliable firepower.

4) Eventually long range dreads as Elite.

5) Some people including me introduce assault squad to complement the relative lack of assault capacity of bikes, using them as counter charge units protected and protecting bikes and vindis. But it's more fire than air.

[Grey Mage]

For an Air Aspected list at 500pts Id field:

 

Captain- Relicblade, Bike- 165pts.

4 Bikes- Attack Bike, MM, MG- 175pts.

5 Scouts- Powerfist- 100pts.

Landspeeder Storm- Hvy Flamer- 60pts.

 

The captain makes the bikes a troops unit, and runs with them to add to their durability and CC potential.

 

Everything in this army can move 24" a turn. At 500pts you should never be caught until you want to be. The MM gives some LR antitank, while the list as a whole is good at popping any armor youll see at this level- IE anything other than a monolith.

 

Scouts I think are also a good choice in an air aspected list- their cheapness counteracts the general priceyness of C:SMs primary air troop, the biker. They hit as hard as an assault marine in CC, or can be a good objective camper if outfitted properly, at a slightly cheaper price than tacticals. The Storm seals the deal, giving them increased mobility and reinforcing their interesting deployment options.

[Ookami_81]

I tried this one but I don't even think it's legal (only one troop). It was a friendly game and it was fun, though...

 

Captain- Relicblade, Bike

4 Bikes- HB Attack Bike, a flamer IIRC

2 Landspeeder Typhoons

 

Basic: Shoot everything to death from afar with the typhoons, kite with the bikes, charge to finish survivors. I admit that the list is only viable if your opponent is not fielding real tanks, just transports. In my case it was an ork army with two trucks, so... it went pretty well ! :)

 

As soon as I'm home I'll give you my version of an air list, then an air-fire list, with explanations, but it'll be in 1500 pts.

 

EDIT: Ha, here are my lists, starting from a very basic 500 pts air list. Far from excellent, but just to give an idea:

 

HQ: Captain, bike, power sword, 150 pts

Troops: 4 Bikers, 2 meltaguns, 1 MM AB, 185 pts

4 Bikers, 2 flamers, 1 HB AB, 165 pts

 

Pretty simple: Everything works together. Turn 1 everyone "cissors turbobosting", a good way of going forward just a little, and still having the 3+ cover save. You choose the angle of the scissors in order to have good placement turn 2.

Subsequent turns, while avoiding CC one troop is popping tanks and transports, the captain + the other troop shoot to death infantry and charge only if necessary, stil only the captain is worth its salt in CC.

 

For a true air list, I've got a decent one at 1500 pts:

 

HQ: Captain, bike, relic blade, hellfire rounds, arty armour, 190 pts

Command squad, bikes, champion, banner, 1 TH, 2 LCs, 3 meltaguns, 3 SS, tailored for each guy to be different

Troops: 4 Bikers, 2 meltaguns, 1 MM AB, meltabomb, 190 pts

6 Bikers, 2 flamers, 1 HB AB, combi-flamer 230 pts

Fast Attack: 3 Typhoons landspeeders, 270 pts

H.support: 2 Vindicators, siege shield, 250 pts

 

Here it's pretty different: you've got an excellent killer unit both CC and shooty with all the HQs. This is a mighty hammer, if properly supported. Typhoons weaken everything from afar while Vindis make holes into the enemy to break it in smaller parts, which are then teared to pieces either by Mrs Death Star or the big biker troop with flamers, depending of the threat level. The other troop is a dedicated LReq destroyer, and tend to be safe a little behind otherwise, to contest or even take objectives. The most important here is to use bikes and vindies in close conjunction, to cover each other. Of course Vindies are slower than bikes especially when firing, but with the scissors manoeuver you can match bikes and vindies and give them good cover while going to the enemy at the desired speed.

 

Here's now another one I use against friends complaining about my death star unit. It's more air-fire than pure air, but I use the bridge bike - vindicator - assault marine to create synergy: vindicators and bikes help together, assault marines protect bikes and vindicators as counter charge units. I found it helpful against close combat oriented armies like orks.

 

HQ: Captain, bike, relic blade, hellfire rounds, arty armour, 190 pts

Chaplain, JP, 125 pts

Troops: 4 Bikers, 2 meltaguns, 1 MM AB, meltabomb, 190 pts

6 Bikers, 2 flamers, 1 HB AB, combi-flamer 230 pts

Fast Attack: 3 Typhoons landspeeders, 270 pts

Assault squad, 10 marines, PFist, PPl, Flamer, meltabombs, 245 pts

H.support: 2 Vindicators, siege shield, 250 pts

 

Even if some people don't like to mix bikes and assault marines, I find they go well together here. Not a list I'll play in tournament, but fun and effective.

[Ryjak]

In my mind, I can't distinguish between an "Air" and "Water" army for Space Marines, and from scanning the forums, I'm not the only one. So, with that goal in mind…

 

First, what is the best example of an Air army? Earth is pretty easy (Imperial Guard/Gunlines) as is Fire (just about every army out there) but Air and Water…

 

Second, what are the most important qualities for an Air army? I think Fast/Skimmer units constantly repositioning, last-minute objective grabs, destroying isolated units, and perhaps most importantly, preventing your opponent from engaging you in any way. Air armies are more concerned about preserving their forces than destroying their opponent.

 

What does this mean for Space Marine unit selection? For Troops, this means small Bike squads, made possible with a Captain on a Bike. These should be augmented by lots of Landspeeders. Other units to consider are Whirlwinds, 5-man Scout squads supported by Storms, Scout Bikes, and Attack Bikes.

 

Rhinos and Razorbacks don’t really support an Air army well, but one or two squads with transports could serve as a firebase and bait unit to give your opponent something to focus on. Ideally, the transport would be hidden out of site, but close enough so the unit can embark and run away when the opponent closes, thus preventing the enemy from effectively engaging.

 

How do you play an Air Army? In general, an Air army will be the Control army, and thus has a general objective of using mobility to deny their opponent’s ability to effectively engage them. Objectives don’t matter, as an Air army can contest all of them at the last minute. Concentrate on safely crippling or eliminating targets of opportunity, and if a situation isn’t favorable, reposition.

 

The difficulty for an Air army is realizing when it’s the Beatdown. This will usually come up when it faces a more mobile Air army, when the terrain doesn’t provide any hiding places, or in certain scenarios. The army may come up against certain units that can threaten the entire army with damage or anti-mobility, armies with enough range, mobility, and numbers that Control tactics are ineffective, or a solid defensive set-up where no units are isolated. In these cases, the Air army must turn itself into a focused whirlwind of destruction, hopefully causing enough damage before burning itself out.

[Ookami_81]

In space marines armies, playing water or air is more a matter of playing style than army list building.

Basically both will include bikes as the only really mobile troop choice.

Water will tend to add less mobile troops like mechanized infantry, Air will focus on ultra mobility.

Water will adapt to the enemy's strategy, Air will use mobility to survive, hide, and win in the last turn.

 

I think Air is not a good playing style for annihilation missions, it's basically a way to win objective based games. That's why a biker commander should know how to play both styles, or a mix of the two.

 

The motto of an air army is that you can indeed achieve victory without fighting, like the old Sun Tzu said. It's a style of finesse.

It's mandatory, when playing pure air style, to prepare yourself not to do what you really want to do as a space marine: to beat the crap out of the enemy. You should be a "cunning coward", much like an eldar. :lol:

 

That's why I don't usually play pure air, but more a mix between everything "not earth".

 

What you should understand when choosing a style and playing loyal marines is that if you meet an alien force tailored to the same style, with the same level of commandship, you'll lose.

I never manage to win on a regular basis with an air army against air eldar lists, for example, or even dark eldar.

That's because you shouldn't have dogma while playing SM, you can't afford it: you must win for the Emperor, and nothing else ! :tu:

 

I can't help but hating earth style, it's just no fun to sit and shoot IG "old" style. First and foremost, I want to move. Then, I must admit I like to win using fight, and not only hiding.

 

Basically I use my guys on bike much like a heavy armed recon unit. I consider each of my bikers like a light and fast tank. I know they'll not survive against too many infantry or heavier tanks (like real tanks on the tabletop game) in frontal attack.

I know, on the other side, that their mobility allow them to break the frontline logic, and play it like AirCav in Vietnam. I also know, and like them for that, that if they focus on one point everything in that point will die.

 

For the rest of the play, I pray the Emperor to guide my Typhoons missiles towards victory. They are usually responsible for most of the kills of my army, that is when I don't score a lucky strike with my Vindies.

[Magnus the red]

For me, the way of the Air warrior is about any combination the following:

 

. Being able to fight who you want, where you want, when you want. Your force is generally elite/reliant on transports so taking your opponent on face to face is a bad idea, but your superior maneuverability is invaluable for letting you choose the battles you want to be involved in.

 

. Being able to dominate movement through a combination of your speed and your ability to harass your opponent's units.

 

. Prioritising targets and making surgical strikes.

 

. Baiting your opponent into less than optimal positions.

 

. Exploiting your opponent's carelessness/ignorance/bad moves.

 

. Being an offensive powerhouse who is a little weaker defensively.

 

. Using terrain to great effect.

 

. Forcing your opponent to react to your moves, then retreating and reshaping your assault to hammer the elements they leave exposed.

 

. Being highly adaptable and adaptive.

 

. Having the ability to rapidly retreat when things are going badly for you.

 

. Hitting little flaws in your opponent's army he didn't even realise were there.

 

. Dictating the tempo of the game.