Tell Me All About......

[Bannus]

TELL ME ALL ABOUT...

The Way of the Fire Warrior


I refer you to this article as the foundation and introduction of the different ways to play Space Marine armies and this thread as an example of how I would like it to progress (except as it relates to Codex Space Marines instead of Grey Knights).

You may also find this thread helpful as well.


We want to know all about the fire elemental combat style as it apply to Codex Space Marines. There are several different army types that can fit within each of these themes - let's explore them all. As with all of these threads, we want to keep the discussions focused and on topic. The more we stray or ask off-topic questions, the harder it is going to be for our volunteer editors to sift through the material and put together a concise article. Unnecessary posts will be deleted for clarity.

In this topic (as with all of them), we want to focus on those aspects that only apply to any Space Marine army.

Let the discussion begin............

[Arnil]

Elites: Sure these are your termies and your dreds but this can also apply to other choices rather well! A land raider Redeemer or Crusader can easily fill the roll of a squad of Sternguard veterans. Similarly the Vanguard veterans ARE the same as Sternguards but they can take Power weapons.

 

A 10 man squad of Vanguards with JP and Dual wielded Lightning Claws will cost 600 points but will(if used right) kill anything in close combat from shear weight of wounding hits. Armor ignoring Wounding hit. Run them with a Chaplain for extra rerolls! Unit like(not necissarily exactly like this one) this are crucial to a fire army! Every unit should be an army unto itself! Good thing our space marines are each an army unto themselves!

 

AVE IMPERATOR!

[Giga]

Basically, it's an army that relies on rushing and killing the enemy as fast as possible. These armies almost always want to get to grips with the enemy as soon as possible, and usually consist of a bunch of killy units that aren't overly survivable and don't have overly great range.

 

Vulkan He'Stan lists are excellent examples of fire armies, and not just fluff-wise. They max out on short-range (but extremely destructive) firepower, and rely on a bunch of fast in-yo-face units and combinations to cripple/destroy the enemy as soon as possible.

 

Vanilla dex has a bunch of units that really compliment the fire playstyle;

 

MM/HF speeders

MM attack bikes

assault terminators

bike squads (especially when armed with flamers and/or meltas)

land raider redeemer

ironclads

assault marines

vanguard veterans

+ a bunch of HQs, such as vulkan, lysander, generic captains/masters/chaplains, etc.

 

Many of these units don't have the survivability/numbers to survive prolonged fights/shooting, and usually relies on destroying its target in a single turn rather then fighting for protracted periods of time.

 

A great example of a fire unit are land speeder storms with MMs and 5 scouts with combimelta and meltabombs - they die easily, but have the potential to rush and destroy important targets before the enemy can even react.

[Justicar Valius]

The Land raider crusader is also a fire vehicle.

 

Fire basically tries to overwhelm the enemy very quickly. If they aren't in a winning position quickly they most likely won't win.

 

Normal Fire lists tend to be effectie in combat more than shooting and don't invest too much in speed although if cheap speed (rhinos) are taken.

[Giga]

Crusader can be used in a variety of ways. The redeemer is really THE fire land raider, and not just in the fluff sense. ;)

[Zynk Kaladin]

Sorry, but gotta say this: Isn't a Fire Warrior a Tau? *lame joke*

 

Anyway, from a tactics point of view, (I think Giga already mentioned this) fire is all about making rash decisions. A Fire Warrior's tactics should resemble that of a Blood Claw's. Get into the fight as quickly as possible and beat the living hell out of your enemy. Destroying your enemy as quickly as possible is a must.

[Ookami_81]

Go to the enemy, fast, and kill him, fast => Think like a Blood Angel ! They are THE PA army for firewarriors. (Plus they love fire warriors, they eat them alive by dozens for breakfast in CC :lol:)

[Arnil]

Fast and hard is the way of the fire warrior. Drop pod lists. Terminator lists(Space Wolves). Kor'sarro Khan's outflanking lists(Consisting of everything in a land raider or other dedicated transport). And Kavaan Shrike's infiltrators. Are all Fire lists!

 

I'm familiar with The Khan's style. He allows everything to outflank. So only take things one can get into killing range of the enemy, you killing him not the other way around, first or second turn. Drop pod Sternguards. Heroic Intervention Vanguards. Termies, nuf said. Dedicated Redeemers outflanking into the enemy's army. All are ways to be a fire warrior....without blue blood that is.

[Bannus]

Fast and hard is the way of the fire warrior. Drop pod lists. Terminator lists(Space Wolves). Kor'sarro Khan's outflanking lists(Consisting of everything in a land raider or other dedicated transport). And Kavaan Shrike's infiltrators. Are all Fire lists!

I'm not sure. Some of these armies (and the Khan army too) might be better considered as Air armies. Don't you think?

 

Just as a reminder, this is how a Fire army is described in the article:

 

Fire

 

A Fire army wants to overwhelm it's opponents, and is characterised by it's specialisation. Good Fire armies often have high model counts and use specialist troops.

 

Movement Phase

 

Fire armies, for reasons given below, tend to be assault armies. This means that they have a vested interest in getting to the enemy fast, so Fire armies often have good mobility, though not on the level of an Air army. This is where Fire armies may lose, as their specialist troops must survive in enough numbers that they can overwhelm the enemy in assault.

 

Shooting Phase

 

There is one shooting phase (that you can use) for every two assault phases. This means that it is easier to overwhelm an opponent with assault superiority than fire superiority. Moreover, assault tends to be a more 'one on one' affair than shooting wars, and the specialist nature of fire troops really shines when compared model for model with other armies. Thus most Fire armies will focus on assault, and because of their troops specialist nature, shooting will be weak, or non-existent.

 

Assault Phase

 

This is where most Fire armies try to win. Ideally, their specialist troops empty their kill zone before the enemy can strike back, avoiding the protracted fights that often shows up the lack of resilience that characterises many Fire armies.

 

Example: An all genestealer army.

 

Personal Comment: I dislike Fire armies as the play style tends to be very one track. It also requires a certain flair that I lack.

[Meatman]

Quite a good fire unit, I think, would be the humble ccw scouts. 10 man with powerfist is 27 attacks and 3 powerfist attacks on the charge, as effective against MEQs as assault marines, all for only 165 points!

 

Infiltrate and scout move gets them VERY close to your opponent very quickly, or you can outflank. Take Shrike and you can get 1st turn charges thanks to fleet.

 

They're fairly mobile, thanks to infiltrate and scout move, they can output a lot of attacks and are cheap. A prime example of a fire unit.

[Arnil]

I'm not sure. Some of these armies (and the Khan army too) might be better considered as Air armies. Don't you think?

 

I should have been more speicific. These armies are good for fire IF used that way. Fire is technically a playstyle not a list makeing strategy. The Khan's speed is great for air for obvious reasons but outflanking Redeemer dropping off Assault terminators into MEQ area and instantly killing them with AP 3 Flamer templates sounds like fire to me....no pun intended.

[Bannus]

OK. As discussions of the general topic wear down, let's look at the next step:

 

What units would you include in your first 500 points of this style army and - more importantly - why?

[Ookami_81]

Depends on how you count "first" 500 pts. Either you attempt to build a viable army, or you just start with HQ + something not necessarily playable.

 

It's hard to avoid light HQ + 2 troops + 1 transport + niceties in 500 pts with vanilla marines, the more usefull for me seeming to be naked librarian + HB razor + 2 10 men tacticals. But it's neither air, nor water, nor fire nor earth.

 

Strating with HQ, in fire style you need something that has a real punch in CC. I'm thinking of, depending of the points range:

1) Relic blade artificer armour captain => unnamed HQ, really deadly in CC. In a transport with others of course

2) The same on a bike, I know it seems Air, but if you thinq CC command squad with LC and TH + biker captain, the overall is a serious CC deathstar unit. Oh, and around 500 pts alone. :)

3) Khan on bike + CC command squad. Same as above, but you've got furious charge for the unit, and it's really deadly

4) The usual LRC + 7 hammernators + Lysander, but it also exceeds 500 pts.

 

Can you clarify "the first 500 pts" for us to precise our answers ?

[LardO'Blood]

I would use an assault squad with a chaplain, maybe vanguard in a rhino? I'd stay away from Uber characters here, they can only be one place at a time and I would rather use a librarian or chaplain to provide general support for the troops. (Don't librarians have a power that conveys a 5+ invulnerable? Helpful vs a carnifex or something like that. If they don't have that power they DO have a power that can take away enemy invulnerables)

SW are completely stacked for this, skyclaws, bloodclaws, thunderwolves are all good ideas. PA wolfguard with logan could be a good (Scoring!) CC base.

DA are more or less at the level of C:SM here.

I haven't played or read the BA codex but with assault squads as troops this should be rather natural.

[Bannus]

When I say "first 500 points" - I am referring to the core of a larger army, but also a viable fighting entity in its own right.

 

Basically, what a player just getting started with this type of army would field in small games, but plans on expanding into a larger force.

[Brother Dylan]

Well I would start with my troops. For most fire armies, or at least the ones I'm familiar with, rely extensively on their troops to do most of the fighting. Each squad should be versatile to take on any unit it may encounter, typically armed with powerfists or meltaguns. Supported with a transport of some kind to get them to the fight as fast as possible, rhinos or landraiders would be the most common form of transportation.

 

Edit: This thread might also be a good read for fire warriors. Melisia's flame warrior thread for sisters as it deals with fire warrior army that works more in the shooting phase.

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=152667