Arming a captain to lead a quad-plasma command squad.

[ShinyRhino]

I'm constructing a command squad that has 4x plasmaguns, and the Apothecary. Ideally, I'd like to park these gents in a commanding ruin with strong fields of fire, and let them rock the house with plasma shots, using armor saves and FNP to mitigate Gets Hot! rolls. Also, split them between levels so they can't all be flattened by a single pie plate.

 

If you were to attach a Captain this this squad, how would you arm him? Combi-plasma? Bolter with hellfire shells? Plasma pistol?

I know I want at least a relic blade, possibly artificer armor. This reliable setup just really works for me, and I like it a lot. 2+/4++ is great.

 

If I select a combi-plasma, I only get to contribute to plasma shooting once, which seems a waste. Hellfire shells match the fire ranges of the plasma, but will the armor save they grant allow targeted units to avoid being wiped out by virtue of having easier saves to make? For example, if I fire at a 5-man Marine squad, hit with six plasma shots, and two Hellfire shots...one enemy Marine can take both armor saves, and have a chance at not dying, whereas if I hadn't fired the hellfire, all five Marines would die.

Plasma pistol only works in 12" range, and won't add any attacks in close combat (relic blade). At 12", one extra shot is nice, but at that point I'm getting danger-close to being charged (though difficult terrain rolls to get into the ruin do help me out some).

 

Or, is it a better idea to simply leave off the captain altogether. Kit him how I like, and leave the Command Squad all by their lonesome? I'd give up any and all close-combat ability that the Captain brings, but would be able to add his boost to another unit in my army.

[thade]

Honestly I would kit the captain out as a CC nightmare for insurance (if they're going to get charged, they have to deal with I5 Relic Blade walloping). I agree that the combi-plasma sounds like a waste, but a combi-flamer or -melta might be nice in the insurance-category again.

 

Also if you choose to seperate him from the command team, you can do whatever you feel like with him. :D

 

EDIT: May I add, I'm going to be doing this same thing myself...and with the BA dex, the command team can all have Jump Packs. @_@ So I'll have rapid-fire plasma bounding around my deployment zone laying down plasma support fire. Probably throw in a flying techmarine (one of the few other ways to get a rapid fire weapon on a jump pack in my dex) for 50 points of giggles.

[ShinyRhino]

Honestly I would kit the captain out as a CC nightmare for insurance (if they're going to get charged, they have to deal with I5 Relic Blade walloping). I agree that the combi-plasma sounds like a waste, but a combi-flamer or -melta might be nice in the insurance-category again.

 

Also if you choose to seperate him from the command team, you can do whatever you feel like with him. :D

 

EDIT: May I add, I'm going to be doing this same thing myself...and with the BA dex, the command team can all have Jump Packs. @_@ So I'll have rapid-fire plasma bounding around my deployment zone laying down plasma support fire. Probably throw in a flying techmarine (one of the few other ways to get a rapid fire weapon on a jump pack in my dex) for 50 points of giggles.

 

Hmmm, you know, that's not a bad idea. Let the captain run off on his bike and make my biker squads Troops, and add a Techmarine with Harness into the command squad. Of course, it costs me an Elite slot, but I rarely use all of those anyways. He gets a twin-linked plasma pistol, and a flamer shot at anything that gets close, and can toss out two powerfist attacks should they end up in close combat.

[tahrikmili]

I use the same squad in my BA army (Honor Guard) but use a Librarian with 1 Long Range 1 Defensive power instead of a Captain. You could consider that..

 

If you don't like the Librarian idea you should probably go with a Relic Blade and a Combi-Melta. It sort of completes the squad and rounds its shortcomings.

[thade]

Vanilla Dex needs a captain to get a Command Squad.

 

BA Dex gets one (it's called "Honor Guard" for BA, not to be confused with the Honor Guard for the Vanilla Dex) no matter what HQ choice they take. Personally, I always have a Librarian on the field, sometimes two. Now that I can put them in Dreadnought armor, I'm going to try three. <3

 

Not sure I'd stick a techmarine w/ servo harness with the command squad; I'd do it as BA because the techmarine can get a JP and fly with them. Then again, that 2+ save with five attacks (and you can give him a power weapon for his first three attacks and still get the servo-harness PF chaser attacks)...I used to do that with my Vanguard back in the day. That tech marine would tear apart entire squads of Boyz (that didn't have power klawz).

[minigun762]

For Codex Marines, I like the old Relic Blade/Storm Bolter Captain. He's cheap but effective. However loading up with Plasma guns means you won't be assaulting so I'd probably just take the Hellfire Rounds for a Bolter because against the targets you'd be firing Plasma at (MCs, Terminators) the 2+ wound would be more useful compared to the ability to move/fire out to 24".

 

As a Chaos player, I don't see as much of a reason to always load up with A. Armor when you already have a 3+/4++ save with FnP.

[DarkGuard]

I'm using a unit just like yours at the moment ShinyRhino. I was considering at first only three plasma guns with a thunder hammer in there to help with close combat, but I feel that I'll benefit more from quad-plasma guns in the long run, kill more people earlier on.

 

I run the unit a little differently to you it seems, sticking them in a Razorback and using them to counter-attack or hunt MCs, TEQ/MEQ, and so I equip my Captain under the basis that he will only be able to shoot and not assault after jumping out. To fit in with the elite anti-MC nature of the unit I went for hellfire rounds with artificer armour, relic blade and digi weapons. A combi-plasma would also be viable, and you can load it with hellfire rounds if you want, I just don't like combi weapons. That's if you're using the Captain with the squad however, if you are I'd pick a decent rapid-fire ranged weapon to go with the relic blade (hellfire rounds).

 

The other option is to run him in a different squad, like RB/SS jump Captain with Assault Marines. Done this too, was ok, but not too good.

 

And minigun726, experience has taught me that a 3+/4++ save is actually very fragile, especially when you haven't got Eternal Warrior. You're as likely to die of concentrated fire as other Marines and you only have half a chance to save a power fist hit. I believe that artificer armour or a storm shield (or both) are necessary to mitigate these weaknesses and give better endurance, in this case artificer armour.

[Xeonic]

Artificer armor is good in the case of attaching him to a command squad, espescially a shooty one, as with only 5 bodies you will likely have to be making saves on the captain. 2+ with a 4+ FnP is incredibly hard to put wounds onto.

On the other hand, it's only a bit better than 3+ FnP since he'll really only be taking the odd potshot anyways, you should be putting the lascannon shots on the vets, even if you give him a SS.

2+, FnP, 10 bolter wounds average .41 wounds on your captain.

3+, FnP, 10 bolter wounds average .83 wounds on your captain.

That said, AA is for sure useful, moreso when he is being forcused on in CC by attackers without power weapons or fists(which is to say, it rarely helps at all).

 

I personally run either Sicarius or a relic blade/combi-melta(part time artificer armor) captain leading my plasma command squad.

That said, he often leads the aggressively kitted sternguard squad or termies instead and leaves the command squad do do it's job unhindered by the CC heavy captain model.

I've also lead this squad with a plasma pistol power weapon captain, though he only fired his pistol once, and didn't need the FnP save.

 

I've been tempted to try this though: Combi-melta, aux grenade launcher, hellfire bolts. Maybe throw in a CC weapon of some sort(lightning claw for cheapness?), but mainly keep it shooty. He should be able to add nicely to the squads adequate ranged punch with a bolter that wounds on a 2+, a S6 shot from the grenade launcher, and of course the ability to totally demolish a tank if need be. Of course you could argue that meltabombs and a stock hellfire bolter would be more effective in this situation but I like the combi-melta captain.

[Captain Idaho]

Oh it has to be a power weapon/plasma pistol combo! An extra plasma shot up close and reasonable assault capacity for only 130pts for the pleasure ain't too shabby.

[Brother Gaius]

One bit of craziness you can do with a Command Squad is 4xplasmagun, 4Xmeltagun. Throw in your captain with a bolter/combi bolter of choice w Hellfire, aux grenade launcher, and Relicblade and you have a unit that can shoot troops, armor and is can fight its way clear of a tarpit reliably.

 

Just my .02

[DarkGuard]

One bit of craziness you can do with a Command Squad is 4xplasmagun, 4Xmeltagun. Throw in your captain with a bolter/combi bolter of choice w Hellfire, aux grenade launcher, and Relicblade and you have a unit that can shoot troops, armor and is can fight its way clear of a tarpit reliably.

 

Just my .02

 

That Command Squad would be infeasible for its points, as plasma guns can take out many tanks, except the big ones which your MM ABs or Land Speeders should be dealing with. Furthermore, melta would decrease your ability to handle troops. Also, you can easily get melta into the Space Marine lists with MM ABs and Speeders. Flamers and bolters are easily found on Tact squads which can tackle infantry. All plasma guns fill a niche role in the list in being able to tackle MCs and TEQ with no problems.

[Koremu]

Whenever I go for a Plasma Command Squad I tend to lead them with Sicarius. He has a Plasma Pistol to fit in with the Squad, a Power Sword with a Special Rule for giggles, Artificer Armour and a bunch of funky extras like making your whole army Ld10 and handing out USRs to Tactical Squads.

[DarkGuard]

Whenever I go for a Plasma Command Squad I tend to lead them with Sicarius. He has a Plasma Pistol to fit in with the Squad, a Power Sword with a Special Rule for giggles, Artificer Armour and a bunch of funky extras like making your whole army Ld10 and handing out USRs to Tactical Squads.

 

Sicarius is indeed a good choice, and I'm currently playing with the idea of using him a tourney list with Kantor (in a quad-plasma gun unit), Stubborn and Ld10 can be fun. However, there is also cost to consider. I know Sicarius does a lot for the army, but he is still 165pts. Now for actual combat potential, and especially if you're running low on points, the artificer armour, digi weapons, relic blade, hellfire rounds bolter armed Captain is only 165pts. Of course if you have the points and don't mind special characters I'd go with him.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I'm building a command squad right now that has a RB/combiplas captain and all five veterans (the Apothecary still counts, yes?) with THs and plasma guns. It's hideously expensive and I'll probably never take them in an actual game, but it makes for a characterful modelling project.

 

That being said, relic blade & stormbolter is a good cheap captain who can put down some damage in close combat. For a plasma command squad, I like either the plasma pistol or a combiplasma (with hellfire rounds). Two extra plasma shots hitting on 2+ is decent even if it only gets one shot, but you can also use the hellfire rounds to plink wounds if you need to save the plasma shot for something special (or already used it).

[Koremu]

(the Apothecary still counts, yes?)

No.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

(the Apothecary still counts, yes?)

No.

 

Hmmm. Army Builder lets you do it. Oh well, I'll have an extra hammer and plasma gun then.

[Xeonic]

The apothecary is not a veteran, he has a seperate(but otherwise identical) statline and no upgrade options due to the fact that he is not infact, a veteran as delineated by the "veteran" statline and title. And yes, his statline is identical aside from the title. Silliness, really.

 

I'm somewhat suprised to see people advocating leading a rapidfiring squad with a storm bolter captain really, though the storm bolter is cheap to him I'd still rather just use hellfire bolts since it actually matches the target profile of the rest of the squad(good vs elites and MCs at least). I'd even go so far as to say the apoth should be packing a bolter instead of BP just because it also matches the plasma gun effective range and will at least help out vs some of their intended targets.

[Giga]

Or, is it a better idea to simply leave off the captain altogether. Kit him how I like, and leave the Command Squad all by their lonesome? I'd give up any and all close-combat ability that the Captain brings, but would be able to add his boost to another unit in my army.

This.

 

This sort of unit works very well on their own. They go around hunting monstrous creatures, heavy infantry, and light vehicles, and they usually slaughter whatever they shoot at.

 

The captain is better off kitted out for close combat and driven around in a LR, with some hammernators keeping him company. This way you can take the advantage of his close combat capabilities, while also adding some great target saturation which will in turn keep your command squad safer.

[DarkGuard]

The apothecary is not a veteran, he has a seperate(but otherwise identical) statline and no upgrade options due to the fact that he is not infact, a veteran as delineated by the "veteran" statline and title. And yes, his statline is identical aside from the title. Silliness, really.

 

I'm somewhat suprised to see people advocating leading a rapidfiring squad with a storm bolter captain really, though the storm bolter is cheap to him I'd still rather just use hellfire bolts since it actually matches the target profile of the rest of the squad(good vs elites and MCs at least). I'd even go so far as to say the apoth should be packing a bolter instead of BP just because it also matches the plasma gun effective range and will at least help out vs some of their intended targets.

 

I agree with you on everything here Xeonic, the Captain should have hellfire rounds in a bolter, which means he should also take a RB because he won't be getting the +1A anyway and the RB is gold against MCs and MEQ. I've also considered giving the Apoth a bolter instead of a bolt pistol, but decided against it. Reason why is because that uni with its 4 plasma guns will get assaulted, especially as you have to be in rapid fire range to make them work well. IMO the extra bolt shot won't do much damage compared to the plasma guns and hellfire rounds, but the extra attack can help a lot in combat against things that aren't MCs. Of course it's an argument about when you want to apply an extra S4 hit. I'd prefer it in combat, but some people will be different.

[Fatuous]

Your tactics for this squad are centered around leaving them in a fix postion from the sounds of it, which I'm not sure is the best use for the squad, as few poeople are really going to leave much in 12" range of their terrain, so you will be significantly decreasing the fire output from the squad, and making a plasma pistol a bit useful.

 

I really think that units like this need transport of some kind to bring the fight to the enemy. So i'd prob throw them all in a razor back with las plas upgrade, and kit the commander with a power weapon and pistol for emergencey chargin if needed, or a plasma pistol and combi plas, if you want that double tap, but prob a bit extreme tbh.

[ShinyRhino]

Some interesting ideas here, all.

 

I don't see a ton of MCs in my local meta any more, since most of the Nidzilla players have moved on to other armies. It's a very MEQ-heavy, and Ork-heavy environment. I want the plasma for burning down Terminators and Trukks, and Marines advancing on foot.

 

I think I'll try running the squad wth Sicarius (since I already have him modelled from the Commander box set), and then again with my Biker Captain (staple of my army).

 

I didn't even think of giving my Apothecary a bolter. I've got the old metal one with the chainsword, so I'll probably run him bp/ccw.

[Xeonic]

I'd only give them an upgraded razorback in a razor spam army. Anything beyond plain HB and it's an expensive fire magnet. Personally with a plasma squad I just take a rhino and "ghettoback" it up, if you move 6", you can still rapidfire two plasmaguns out the top, and you won't feel like you're wasting points moving them up to support other elements of your army.

 

Having your captain go off and do his own thing isn't a bad idea, the great part about the plasma command squad is that it relies on nothing else to do it's job, they function in a rhino, razor, on foot, or on bikes relatively well and they don't have to be babysat by an IC to do their intended job. They murder anything that's not a massive blob or AV13/14 tank, and really quite durable in cover, all for around the cost of one tac squad, whilst taking no FoC slots.

 

The reason I suggested a bolter apoth was because if the squad is in CC, you're wasting 60 pts of upgrades. I understand that you can't always stay out of CC though, but 1 attack IMO is hardly going to make or break a squad either way. Personally though since the squad is designed to engage at range I'd rather have a bolter apoth just for the added effectiveness where you want to focus the squad. Properly arming any ICs attached to the squad is far more important than if or not the apothecary has a bolter or pistol. <_<

A fist would be far better insurance than one S4 attack in CC, but a fist would also increase the cost of the squad by quite a bit. Better still is to simply support them with other units that can fill in for their weaknesses.

[Wildfire]

If I was going to take a static captian to put in a static plasma command squad, I'd go Lysander. He's got termie armor, storm shield, and eternal warrior, so can take any kind of apoth-negating firepower you like. Plus he has Bolster Defences, to increase a piece of terrain for the command squad to hide in.

[Fatuous]

If you are planning on going plasma heavy, I would avoid spending points on CC ablity as well. They may get in to CC, but that is not their roles, those points could buff a dedicated cc unit instead, and you really want to be extracting said squad from combat, ready to fire again. Not getting bogged down in an assault. So yeah a bolter on the medic and some form of transport is poss the best option.

[Mustalid]

Don't forget the bikes option. If your command squad has bikes, then they are relentless. Therefore, they can rapid fire THEN charge, and the captain w/ relic blade + plus whatever other toys you like works great. Otherwise, I wouldn't tie down my captain hanging out in the fire base when he's best at CC.