Blood Angels and Grey Knights

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

I did a search and didnt find anything so has anyone done a Sanguinary guard army with Grey Knight allies? I think it would be a small elite army and Im not sure how it would be used but I think it would be awesome to have an angel/knight army. As it is I am thinking about using that kind of list for my Blood Angels succesor chapter which is supposed to be very pious.

 

So has anyone done it? also how would this army work tactics wise? would the SG work well in conjunction with the GK?

[cptphoenixck]

Fluff wise its great.......otherwise..not so great. It wouldnt be a very competitive army at all for starter the DH codex is so out of date especially in reagrd to points values you'd be paying over the odds.

Still I say do cause otherwise its a great idea :)

[daboarder]

S7 I5 marines...whats not too love.

[cptphoenixck]

S7 I5 marines...whats not too love.

the points cost?

[soots]

i've done it...worked pretty good

5 gkt + priest + gm vs 10 vanguards+shrike+ chaplin

gk won in 2 rounds

 

btw this was a 2k pt match

[billga]

Still run the IL + familiarand 2 mystice for 83 pts in most2K games.

[Slim Pickens]

Allies to me means: I cant stand on my own two feet and win by myself.

 

One codex per list.

 

Allies are a crutch, and hopefully will be written out with codex updates.

 

And if allies are a crutch that Inquisitor/mystic combo is a wheelchair...

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

Allies to me means: I cant stand on my own two feet and win by myself.

 

One codex per list.

 

Allies are a crutch, and hopefully will be written out with codex updates.

 

And if allies are a crutch that Inquisitor/mystic combo is a wheelchair...

 

Ouch man kinda harsh on the =I=

[Slim Pickens]

Allies to me means: I cant stand on my own two feet and win by myself.

 

One codex per list.

 

Allies are a crutch, and hopefully will be written out with codex updates.

 

And if allies are a crutch that Inquisitor/mystic combo is a wheelchair...

 

Ouch man kinda harsh on the =I=

 

Yeah, but that codex was written 2 editions ago, and was not meant to be used in combination with things like 6" buff bubbles from my big blood gulp cup that shouldnt be driving the =I= troops into a frenzy of furious charging feel no pain in the first place.

 

Im not trying to hate on the =I= Im trying to point out that using a old codex to game the rules a bit isnt really "winning", I more consider it rules laywering.

 

That being said, I certainly wouldnt give anyone grief about playing =I= troops in a way that wasnt obviously trying to take advantage of game mechanics not meant for that codex. But when all I see is 83 pt Inq/mystics in every army to screw DSing, I must concur that it is not the "fluff" that drives people to take this unit, but the fact that its rules happen to provide an advantage over many of the newer codexes which rely on DS.

 

Or stacking furious charge benefits on a +2S power weapon, which is clearly not intended by the developers as evidenced by the relic blade exclusion in our codex.

 

I am all for taking the stuff you feel is best, but I really do think the game was developed and playtested based on each codex standing alone in 5th edition., so I always limit my choices to one codex.

 

Wait a minute...who am I kidding... they dont playtest this game. :)

[Morticon]

Smoke em if you got em.

 

The allies will only be useable for a few more months before the new GK dex takes em away.

It is sadly a crutch.

 

That being said, it can also be fluffy, and fun. Depends entirely why you're using them.

 

I dont think its a problem, or an issue or rules lawyering - but it is definitely gamist.

Nothing wrong with that though.

 

 

Ive seen plenty of Pedro Kantor lists with GKs - why not us?

 

To be honest though- we dont need em :P

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

Allies to me means: I cant stand on my own two feet and win by myself.

 

One codex per list.

 

Allies are a crutch, and hopefully will be written out with codex updates.

 

And if allies are a crutch that Inquisitor/mystic combo is a wheelchair...

 

Ouch man kinda harsh on the =I=

 

Yeah, but that codex was written 2 editions ago, and was not meant to be used in combination with things like 6" buff bubbles from my big blood gulp cup that shouldnt be driving the =I= troops into a frenzy of furious charging feel no pain in the first place.

 

Im not trying to hate on the =I= Im trying to point out that using a old codex to game the rules a bit isnt really "winning", I more consider it rules laywering.

 

That being said, I certainly wouldnt give anyone grief about playing =I= troops in a way that wasnt obviously trying to take advantage of game mechanics not meant for that codex. But when all I see is 83 pt Inq/mystics in every army to screw DSing, I must concur that it is not the "fluff" that drives people to take this unit, but the fact that its rules happen to provide an advantage over many of the newer codexes which rely on DS.

 

Or stacking furious charge benefits on a +2S power weapon, which is clearly not intended by the developers as evidenced by the relic blade exclusion in our codex.

 

I am all for taking the stuff you feel is best, but I really do think the game was developed and playtested based on each codex standing alone in 5th edition., so I always limit my choices to one codex.

 

Wait a minute...who am I kidding... they dont playtest this game. :D

 

True true. Personally I dont like taking advantage of the rules like that, the reason I would do this is fluff and chapter representation. My chapter is apart of the Astartes Praeses and succesors of the Blood Angels and I am playing up the whole elite angel/army of heaven thing and of course we all know that Grey Knights are as ritchous as one can possibly get. So while my army will technicly be a BA GK ally they will all be painted and represented as members of my chapters 1st company. Besides that the fact that to me the GK and SG are 2 of the coolest units in the game. As far as army comp i would probably do something along these lines for a 2000 point game

 

HQ-

Dante

 

GK brother captain with terminator retinue

 

Elites-

GK terminator squad

 

Furioso dread librarian

 

Chaplain or Sanguinary preist

 

Troops-

4 or 5 squads of SG more if i can

 

Fast Attack-

maybe some land speeders

 

Heavy Support-

No clue

 

Now another thing is I dont know how I would use this army tactics wise. With the army composition I could feesibly deep strike the entire force. Use the SG for taking and contesting objectives and then the GK terminators will go after the big tough stuff, the land speeders will be tank hunters. Now if need be I probably wont take the Furioso so i can save points and take a normal dread as a heavy support that will be kitted for long range.

[daboarder]

damn slim ease up a little mate. Personally I take my allies (sob seraphim squad, sometimes my celestine) for fluff reasons when I run 'em nothing powergamey bout that.

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

Yeah for me its mostly fluffy to

[SamaNagol]

I am going to have to model a ton of new Grey Knights with the improved Storm Shields. The rumour was they would be getting access to NFW and Storm Shield for +X points in the new dex.

 

Not that that has any relevance to this part of the board.

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

I am going to have to model a ton of new Grey Knights with the improved Storm Shields. The rumour was they would be getting access to NFW and Storm Shield for +X points in the new dex.

 

Not that that has any relevance to this part of the board.

 

Yup non at all :P

[wookielips]

HQ-

Dante

 

GK brother captain with terminator retinue

 

Elites-

GK terminator squad

 

Furioso dread librarian

 

Chaplain or Sanguinary preist

 

Troops-

4 or 5 squads of SG more if i can

 

Fast Attack-

maybe some land speeders

 

Heavy Support-

No clue

 

Now another thing is I dont know how I would use this army tactics wise. With the army composition I could feesibly deep strike the entire force. Use the SG for taking and contesting objectives and then the GK terminators will go after the big tough stuff, the land speeders will be tank hunters. Now if need be I probably wont take the Furioso so i can save points and take a normal dread as a heavy support that will be kitted for long range.

 

i'd run it exactly like the classic water strat posted on the =I= forums, here: Water Warrior

 

GKs draw units into fire traps, while SG hit and run in the backfield/flanks. HS should/could be LR's to put the termi's where they belong

[SamaNagol]

I tried to do this as a stop gap to update Grey Knights and run a counts as list. I got as far as giving up writing a workable 1500pt list

 

Think I ended up going for a Reclusiarch in Terminator Armour, a Grand Master with a 3 man Terminator bodyguard including 1 with Thunder Hammer and 1 with an Incinerator and a Terminator Sanguinary Priest in a Storm Raven. Another Storm Raven with 5 Sanguinary Guard in with a Jump Pack Priest. 2 units of 10 Jump Pack Assault Marines. A Furioso with Talons in a Pod and a Multi Melta Dread in a Pod both with Beacons. All modelled as Grey Knights, not Blood Angels.

 

Alpha strike at it's finest.

 

Then I heard they were going to bring out the Grey Knights within the next year and realised I hadn't painted any of my 2500 odd points of Blood Angels crap I'd bought and was assembling, so put the idea to rest.

[BlessedSword]

Well, they are expensive but I've actually found GKT to be pretty good when used with a Sanguinary Priest. Their biggest strength is that they can be very effective against just about any type of unit due to 1) high strength attacks at initiative, 2) WS5 + decent no. of attacks, and 3) being able to take powerful ranged weaponry.

 

Fighting MEQ? Your striking first on the charge in most cases due to FC, than hitting on 3s, wounding on 2s and ignoring armor.

 

Facing Hordes? Add two incinerators into the squad and wreck them. Furthermore, FNP means it will take 50 WS4 S4 attacks on average to kill just one of your GKT.

 

What about MC? S7 on the charge means that even a Carnifex is getting wounded on 4+. Pair a priest and a chaplain with a 5 man GKT squad and your looking at ~7 wounds against T7 on average or enough to even kill a trygon before it can strike back (on average).

 

My personal setup is to run them with a sanguinary priest and librarian inside either and Land Raider or Storm Raven. The Librarian has unleash rage to give them that extra boost in assault power and shield of sanguinius to make the transport toiugher to crack.

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

But that focuses mainly on the GKT. I need to know how to use them in conjunction with the SG themselves. Like should I deep strike everyone and shoot (as I'll have flamers and heavy weapons (meltas if i can in SG) and of course flamers in each squad for each unit. Or should I put my GKT in LR and move them up the feild with my dread to keep my opponent occupied and then drop my SG in to assault the enemy and keep him locked up untill my GKT and dread get into close combat. Or should I just deploy them all at the same time and rush them up the field (the problem with this is do to point expensiveness my units will be fairly small. Or does it all depend on circumstance?

[SamaNagol]

Sanguinary Guard are best used sparingly, and to be honest when you have Terminators with S6 Power Weapon you could say you don't really need them.

 

But personally, as with any other time I'd consider using Sanguinary Guard, I would run them with a Priest with Power Weapon and Jump Pack and send them into some expensive elite infantry on the charge.

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

I may not need them but that dosent change that I still want them

[Daedalus Templarius]

I'll let you know how my small 1000pt game goes.

 

GKT paired with Corb and a Lib rolling in a Godhammer LR. This hammer will distract whoever I'm playing long enough for my 2 razorbacks + Assault troops to take objectives... I hope.

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

I'll let you know how my small 1000pt game goes.

 

GKT paired with Corb and a Lib rolling in a Godhammer LR. This hammer will distract whoever I'm playing long enough for my 2 razorbacks + Assault troops to take objectives... I hope.

 

Ok sounds good, good luck with your game.

 

Am I mistaken but is your avatar picture from Too Human? It looks like one of the suits of armor you can get.

 

Oops nevermind I saw your art

[Requiem of the Wolf]

I'll let you know how my small 1000pt game goes.

 

GKT paired with Corb and a Lib rolling in a Godhammer LR. This hammer will distract whoever I'm playing long enough for my 2 razorbacks + Assault troops to take objectives... I hope.

 

Ok sounds good, good luck with your game.

 

Am I mistaken but is your avatar picture from Too Human? It looks like one of the suits of armor you can get.

 

Oops nevermind I saw your art

*shrug* I for one hate to have to take the Inquisitor just to get my Favorite Thing from 3rd Edition. Back then,a Vindicare was an almost guarenteed good time in a small package. At the time,it was the perfect answer for the "Super Characters" that were running around. It shot twice if it didnt move. Your special ammo was better then it is now. Shield breakers used to destroy a shield.period.for the rest of the game but did no damage. Turbo Penetrator did 2 wounds and made it so even a Terminator couldnt save..I think it had like a -9 to its save,equivalent to a lascannon...This was back when Terminator armor had a 3+ on 2D6 lol. but the best part was its normal attack wasn't worthless. It could still pick out targets even if there were closer targets,or if the independant character was standing within spitting distance of a squad but hadn't joined it.

 

So on the one hand I am going to be really happy to see what the 5th edition Vindicare is like..I just don't look forward to not having the option to field it anymore without going and doing a full on army.

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

I'll let you know how my small 1000pt game goes.

 

GKT paired with Corb and a Lib rolling in a Godhammer LR. This hammer will distract whoever I'm playing long enough for my 2 razorbacks + Assault troops to take objectives... I hope.

 

Ok sounds good, good luck with your game.

 

Am I mistaken but is your avatar picture from Too Human? It looks like one of the suits of armor you can get.

 

Oops nevermind I saw your art

*shrug* I for one hate to have to take the Inquisitor just to get my Favorite Thing from 3rd Edition. Back then,a Vindicare was an almost guarenteed good time in a small package. At the time,it was the perfect answer for the "Super Characters" that were running around. It shot twice if it didnt move. Your special ammo was better then it is now. Shield breakers used to destroy a shield.period.for the rest of the game but did no damage. Turbo Penetrator did 2 wounds and made it so even a Terminator couldnt save..I think it had like a -9 to its save,equivalent to a lascannon...This was back when Terminator armor had a 3+ on 2D6 lol. but the best part was its normal attack wasn't worthless. It could still pick out targets even if there were closer targets,or if the independant character was standing within spitting distance of a squad but hadn't joined it.

 

So on the one hand I am going to be really happy to see what the 5th edition Vindicare is like..I just don't look forward to not having the option to field it anymore without going and doing a full on army.

 

Ummmm how exactly does this fit into the discussion? :D just wondering