Blood Angels and Grey Knights

[Requiem of the Wolf]

I'll let you know how my small 1000pt game goes.

 

GKT paired with Corb and a Lib rolling in a Godhammer LR. This hammer will distract whoever I'm playing long enough for my 2 razorbacks + Assault troops to take objectives... I hope.

 

Ok sounds good, good luck with your game.

 

Am I mistaken but is your avatar picture from Too Human? It looks like one of the suits of armor you can get.

 

Oops nevermind I saw your art

*shrug* I for one hate to have to take the Inquisitor just to get my Favorite Thing from 3rd Edition. Back then,a Vindicare was an almost guarenteed good time in a small package. At the time,it was the perfect answer for the "Super Characters" that were running around. It shot twice if it didnt move. Your special ammo was better then it is now. Shield breakers used to destroy a shield.period.for the rest of the game but did no damage. Turbo Penetrator did 2 wounds and made it so even a Terminator couldnt save..I think it had like a -9 to its save,equivalent to a lascannon...This was back when Terminator armor had a 3+ on 2D6 lol. but the best part was its normal attack wasn't worthless. It could still pick out targets even if there were closer targets,or if the independant character was standing within spitting distance of a squad but hadn't joined it.

 

So on the one hand I am going to be really happy to see what the 5th edition Vindicare is like..I just don't look forward to not having the option to field it anymore without going and doing a full on army.

 

Ummmm how exactly does this fit into the discussion? :P just wondering

*looks up from re-routing the thread off into parts unknown* Huh? ummm...*points behind Jarl* Look!, a Distraction! *disappears back to the Fang*

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

Nice brother

[BlessedSword]

But that focuses mainly on the GKT. I need to know how to use them in conjunction with the SG themselves. Like should I deep strike everyone and shoot (as I'll have flamers and heavy weapons (meltas if i can in SG) and of course flamers in each squad for each unit. Or should I put my GKT in LR and move them up the feild with my dread to keep my opponent occupied and then drop my SG in to assault the enemy and keep him locked up untill my GKT and dread get into close combat. Or should I just deploy them all at the same time and rush them up the field (the problem with this is do to point expensiveness my units will be fairly small. Or does it all depend on circumstance?

 

Hmm, in my opinion, your best option would probably be to deploy them in stormravens. Get 2-3 stormravens, keep all of your forces in reserve, and deepstrike everything but the stormravens. That way, you can ensure that the GKT have mobility and can keep up with the SG. I mean they are pretty good shooting-wise but I wouldn't footslog them unless I have a static gunline in which case, they become a counter-charge unit. Deepstriking everything might also work but its risky, especially given (as you have already mentioned) how small your units are.

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

Would I need 3 Storm Ravens though as I only have 2 units of GKT. Or is the other SR for the dreadnought? which in that case is it better to take a SR for the dread or a DP? (keep in mind I dont have the BA codex yet so I dont know the rules for Storm Ravens)? I think my army will do better up close and so I agree that I need to get in quickly and deep striking is a little risky for my GKT as they are going to be a big chunk of my army. The SG I'm not so worried about because with Dante and the decent of angels rule they have a pretty good chance of landing where I want them to.

[BlessedSword]

I think either two or three is fine, three is ideal if you have points to spare but given the cost of fielding 2 GKT squads it will be hard to fit in without significantly cutting other parts of your army. The main reason for fielding three is so that you increase the effectiveness of your Stormravens as transports since your opponent will be forced to either divert his shooting or focus on one at the expense of the others (meaning your forces have a better chance of getting to where they need to be). You'll also be better equipped to absorb fire and wipe out tanks since they can move 24" (receive a 4+ cover save) and still fire (due to POTMS). If you do consider fielding 3, put a SG squad and Dread into the third, they'll make a nice hammer unit combined.

[Daedalus Templarius]

As much as I like the idea of the new flying unit, I'd rather just use LRs.

 

I guess that might have to do with the fact I have 4, though.

 

2 Godhammers, 1 Crusader, 1 GK Redeemer (from forge world)

[Sanguinarian]

Our Storm Ravens do not carry TDA, only up to 12 PA troops or up to 6 JP troops and 1 Dreadnought, so nogo on that suggestion.

 

I would load up 2 SRs with Locator Beacons & 24 or 12 troopers and 2 Dreads and Deep Strike your GKTs in on Turn 2 to wipe the planet of the Chaos filth that tries to stand against you.

 

As far as OUR Sanguinary Priests giving anyone other than a Son of Sanguinius FC IS UTTERLY PREPOSTEROUS!!! FC is the USR that is equivalent to our Red Thirst. If GKs or any other army people consider our allies don't have access to it in THEIR codex, then they don't automatically all of a sudden fall to the Red Thirst when in proximity to OUR Primarch's blood (SP's Blood Chalice)!?! That's crap!!! Unless of course Sanguinius himself is on the table, then that's a horse of another color. :sweat:

 

Also, a Vindicare (Assassin) is a WH character and a Vindicator is a tank, just to clarify, and neither fit into the OP. :)

 

Lastly, what is a "Godhammer" LR? If that's what the Crusader is aka, then 6 twin-linked S4 Bolt Gun shots isn't much of a hammer!?! And 12 @ 12" doesn't make me giggle like a schoolgirl either. Can someone help me out?

[Daedalus Templarius]

Godhammer is a TLLC on both sides, so basically a stock LR.

 

And I'll go ahead and enjoy using FC on my GKT, since it says "allies within 6". S7 I5, and an additional attack? The only thing that would be better in my unit is if Mephy was in there too... too bad this is only 1000pts, but I'm sure I'll enjoy Corb, Mephy, and 6GKT in a larger game rolling out of a GK LRR.

 

Allying in GK is about the only way to keep them competitive these days.

[Koyote]

I have had plenty of success with a squad of allied Grey Knights in power armor with both my Blood Angels and my Imperial Fists (GKs + Lysander = WIN). For starters, they are Troops, so they are scoring. And while shrouding isn't as effective as night fighting, it has a psychological effect on an opponent. Consequently, my Grey Knights have rarely been targeted by long range shooting. This, combined with fearless makes them good at holding objectives. Still another strength is the amount of medium ranged anti-infantry fire they can provide: 7-10 BS4 stormbolters is nothing to sneeze at. Also, if you have the points, I would recommend a psycannon as few things are more satisfying than killing a Farseer or Archon with a single shot -good against daemons as well. Finally, their stat line is formidable. At WS5 and S6, a squad of Grey Knights put a sizable dent in an Ork mob. Even against MEq, they aren't too shabby. At 25 points per model they are a little spendy, but not prohibitively so. One of their biggest drawbacks is their lack of frag grenades.

[Daedalus Templarius]

I have had plenty of success with a squad of allied Grey Knights in power armor with both my Blood Angels and my Imperial Fists (GKs + Lysander = WIN). For starters, they are Troops, so they are scoring. And while shrouding isn't as effective as night fighting, it has a psychological effect on an opponent. Consequently, my Grey Knights have rarely been targeted by long range shooting. This, combined with fearless makes them good at holding objectives. Still another strength is the amount of medium ranged anti-infantry fire they can provide: 7-10 BS4 stormbolters is nothing to sneeze at. Also, if you have the points, I would recommend a psycannon as few things are more satisfying than killing a Farseer or Archon with a single shot -good against daemons as well. Finally, their stat line is formidable. At WS5 and S6, a squad of Grey Knights put a sizable dent in an Ork mob. Even against MEq, they aren't too shabby. At 25 points per model they are a little spendy, but not prohibitively so. One of their biggest drawbacks is their lack of frag grenades.

 

You can give frag grenades to the Justicar.

 

I have 2 full units of PAGK, I doubt I would use them as such unless they got a price break though, allied with my Red Hunters (BA). 50 pts for a Justicar is just ridiculous, maybe if he had an extra wound, it would be ok... or at least an invuln save. Also, 25 pts per model is mighty steep.

 

I think the only cost effective unit in the book are GKTs, since they are only 6 points more than a regular termie, but WS5 S6 striking at initiative!

[Sanguinarian]

Godhammer is a TLLC on both sides, so basically a stock LR.

 

And I'll go ahead and enjoy using FC on my GKT, since it says "allies within 6". S7 I5, and an additional attack? The only thing that would be better in my unit is if Mephy was in there too... too bad this is only 1000pts, but I'm sure I'll enjoy Corb, Mephy, and 6GKT in a larger game rolling out of a GK LRR.

 

Allying in GK is about the only way to keep them competitive these days.

Thanks for clarifying the LR nickname.

 

As for how "all friendly units" means other Chapters that are not privy to The Red Thirst (context of the write up preceding SRs), I think you're abusing OUR Codex. Good Luck if your LGS lets you do it. Wouldn't happen here. GKT stats are buff enough. :)

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

I have had plenty of success with a squad of allied Grey Knights in power armor with both my Blood Angels and my Imperial Fists (GKs + Lysander = WIN). For starters, they are Troops, so they are scoring. And while shrouding isn't as effective as night fighting, it has a psychological effect on an opponent. Consequently, my Grey Knights have rarely been targeted by long range shooting. This, combined with fearless makes them good at holding objectives. Still another strength is the amount of medium ranged anti-infantry fire they can provide: 7-10 BS4 stormbolters is nothing to sneeze at. Also, if you have the points, I would recommend a psycannon as few things are more satisfying than killing a Farseer or Archon with a single shot -good against daemons as well. Finally, their stat line is formidable. At WS5 and S6, a squad of Grey Knights put a sizable dent in an Ork mob. Even against MEq, they aren't too shabby. At 25 points per model they are a little spendy, but not prohibitively so. One of their biggest drawbacks is their lack of frag grenades.

 

You can give frag grenades to the Justicar.

 

I have 2 full units of PAGK, I doubt I would use them as such unless they got a price break though, allied with my Red Hunters (BA). 50 pts for a Justicar is just ridiculous, maybe if he had an extra wound, it would be ok... or at least an invuln save. Also, 25 pts per model is mighty steep.

 

I think the only cost effective unit in the book are GKTs, since they are only 6 points more than a regular termie, but WS5 S6 striking at initiative!

 

I agree that the PAGK are to expensive for what they do hence why I am not using any in my army. Really the onl GK units I will have are my Brother-captain with his retinue and a squad of GKT.

[BlessedSword]

As much as I like the idea of the new flying unit, I'd rather just use LRs.

 

I prefer Land Raiders as well, the main problem for me is that the Blood Angels can only include them in an army as dedicated transports, not as heavy support choices. In order to get them for the GKT squads, he would either have to field the old Grey Knights Land Raider (which limits him to carrying 4 GKT and one SP per Land Raider) or field two other Blood Angel units capable to taking LR transports (i.e. RAS, Tac, Devs) and use those for the GKT.

 

Our Storm Ravens do not carry TDA, only up to 12 PA troops or up to 6 JP troops and 1 Dreadnought, so nogo on that suggestion.

 

Pardon me for asking but where exactly does it state that Storm Ravens do not carry TDA? The entry in the codex merely says that Stormravens can transport 12 models. In fact, it is written in a manner no different from that of the land raider and the only applicable rule is that Terminators take up two transport slots/model. It is clearly different from the Rhino/Razorback entry which explicitly states that models in Terminator armor cannot be carried.

 

As for how "all friendly units" means other Chapters that are not privy to The Red Thirst (context of the write up preceding SRs), I think you're abusing OUR Codex. Good Luck if your LGS lets you do it. Wouldn't happen here. GKT stats are buff enough.

 

Actually its not unique to our codex as Space Marines and Space Wolves can do the same thing (i.e. Korsarro and Blackmane both give Furious Charge). As for whether it makes them overpowered as you are obviously implying, I think most people would consider OUR Assault Terminators to be better overall since they can they can be nearly as effective in this arrangement (moreso against T4 and below since they'll have more attacks, less so against T6 and higher) at a lower price (i.e. 200 pts vs 245 pts for a 5 man squad). Of course, thats not taking into consideration the fact that we can get TH/SS with a 3+ inv save (versus 4+ inv save that only protect against melee for Grey Knights) as well as take better transport options. I think its quite obvious that there is a trade-off.

[Sanguinarian]

Our Storm Ravens do not carry TDA, only up to 12 PA troops or up to 6 JP troops and 1 Dreadnought, so nogo on that suggestion.

 

Pardon me for asking but where exactly does it state that Storm Ravens do not carry TDA? The entry in the codex merely says that Stormravens can transport 12 models. In fact, it is written in a manner no different from that of the land raider and the only applicable rule is that Terminators take up two transport slots/model. It is clearly different from the Rhino/Razorback entry which explicitly states that models in Terminator armor cannot be carried.

As for how "all friendly units" means other Chapters that are not privy to The Red Thirst (context of the write up preceding SRs), I think you're abusing OUR Codex. Good Luck if your LGS lets you do it. Wouldn't happen here. GKT stats are buff enough.

 

Actually its not unique to our codex as Space Marines and Space Wolves can do the same thing (i.e. Korsarro and Blackmane both give Furious Charge). As for whether it makes them overpowered as you are obviously implying, I think most people would consider OUR Assault Terminators to be better overall since they can they can be nearly as effective in this arrangement (moreso against T4 and below since they'll have more attacks, less so against T6 and higher) at a lower price (i.e. 200 pts vs 245 pts for a 5 man squad). Of course, thats not taking into consideration the fact that we can get TH/SS with a 3+ inv save (versus 4+ inv save that only protect against melee for Grey Knights) as well as take better transport options. I think its quite obvious that there is a trade-off.

 

Under our Terminator entry for vehicle choice. Our Termies may only take Landraiders, whereas for all of our other Infantry types it states they can select any Dedicated Transport (starting) on page ??. Doesn't give that entire spectrum, nor specifically any other ride but LRs, to include SRs. Just my interpretation/$.02. :D

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

None of our units can take Stormravens as a dedicated transport, would be very nice though if we could.

 

0b :)

[BlessedSword]

Under our Terminator entry for vehicle choice. Our Termies may only take Landraiders, whereas for all of our other Infantry types it states they can select any Dedicated Transport (starting) on page ??. Doesn't give that entire spectrum, nor specifically any other ride but LRs, to include SRs. Just my interpretation/$.02. :P

 

Ahh thats fine than, we are all entitled to our own opinions. ;)

 

In the interest of helping the op though, I must point out that Stormravens isn't a dedicated transport for any blood angel unit, it is solely a heavy support choice in the army. Therefore, I do not believe that not being selectable as a dedicated transport for a unit precludes it from being usable as a transport for said unit since if we are to apply that line of thinking, it would mean that Storm Ravens would not be able to transport any units at all. :)

 

Edit: Aaa I type too slow, what black orange said.

[Hfran Morkai]

Actually its not unique to our codex as Space Marines and Space Wolves can do the same thing (i.e. Korsarro and Blackmane both give Furious Charge).

 

But I've not seen many, if any, suggest they use a unit from a different codex to get this buff, SW's because WG are buff enough for Rags and I don't know about the Marines.

 

But what Sanguinary Priests offer is also Feel No Pain to units, drastically increasing combat effectiveness and hence why I shall be writing Vindicare assassins into my Wolf List until I can no longer do so.

[BlessedSword]

Actually its not unique to our codex as Space Marines and Space Wolves can do the same thing (i.e. Korsarro and Blackmane both give Furious Charge).

 

But I've not seen many, if any, suggest they use a unit from a different codex to get this buff, SW's because WG are buff enough for Rags and I don't know about the Marines.

 

But what Sanguinary Priests offer is also Feel No Pain to units, drastically increasing combat effectiveness and hence why I shall be writing Vindicare assassins into my Wolf List until I can no longer do so.

 

 

Yes they aren't that common, I have seen a list with Grey Knight Terminators and Kantor before but otherwise it seems to be a rarity. What can I say? Its simply thinking outside the box. Compared with assault terminators with the same configuration (i.e. SP and Chappy/Lib), they will be more versatile because of higher S and shooting but also more expensive (i.e. for the price of a 5 man GKT squad, you can get 6 AT), less durable (fewer bodies, inferior storm shields), less choppy (fewer models and each model has 1 less attack), and harder to integrate into a mechanized force (i.e. its basically either the older regular GK LR, or SR).

 

Its basically a trade-off, you'll be better at dealing with stuff AT might have trouble with like Banshees and Genestealers due to shooting but you sacrifice points, bodies, and durability to get it. Is it worth it? Well that depends on how you integrate them with other aspects of your army. :)

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

But I cant take GKLR in this army as the allies rule dosen't allow you to take DH heavy support choices and GKT dont have a dedicated transport option for LRs like normal TDA units. So BA dont have LR as heavy support choices or did I misunderstand that? If thats the case then I guess I'm stuck with SR

[Sanguinarian]

None of our units can take Stormravens as a dedicated transport, would be very nice though if we could.

 

0b :)

 

Duh...YOU'RE RIGHT!!! What a lapse of/lack of reading skills!!! My bad. So, in that case, Termies popping out of an SR would be bad a$$!!!

[Daedalus Templarius]

Well, the deathstar unit did pretty well in our game today.

 

With Corbulo, stock Lib + infernus, and GKT squad (1 Brocap, 3 GKT), I removed 2 leman russes (almost another as well), a chimera, a sentinal, and probably would have been a large squad of guard if we hadn't stopped. My razorback assault troop units took out some assorted squads, and I only lost my land raider to the command squad in the chimera because I didn't realize they had 4 melta guns and were less than 6" away.

 

All in all I traded about 260 points for about 1100, if I had of had another turn, it would have been the full 1250.

 

Team breakdown was... Me, Swarm nids (who didn't really do anything...), 250 pt squad of Orkz vs 2250pts of Necrons, and tanky guard.

 

On another note, is someone really going to get up your ass about taking a LR and putting your units inside of it? I will have to look at the codex, but that is something I wouldn't really care about, personally. If they do, just say you are playing Apoc, then force org doesn't even matter. Sounds like a :cuss kinda thing.

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

Well, the deathstar unit did pretty well in our game today.

 

With Corbulo, stock Lib + infernus, and GKT squad (1 Brocap, 3 GKT), I removed 2 leman russes (almost another as well), a chimera, a sentinal, and probably would have been a large squad of guard if we hadn't stopped. My razorback assault troop units took out some assorted squads, and I only lost my land raider to the command squad in the chimera because I didn't realize they had 4 melta guns and were less than 6" away.

 

All in all I traded about 260 points for about 1100, if I had of had another turn, it would have been the full 1250.

 

Team breakdown was... Me, Swarm nids (who didn't really do anything...), 250 pt squad of Orkz vs 2250pts of Necrons, and tanky guard.

 

On another note, is someone really going to get up your ass about taking a LR and putting your units inside of it? I will have to look at the codex, but that is something I wouldn't really care about, personally. If they do, just say you are playing Apoc, then force org doesn't even matter. Sounds like a :cuss kinda thing.

 

Glad to hear that the unit did well.

 

As for people I play with being anal about taking a LR sadly yes they would be. I've played with 3 differant gaming groups in 3 differant states and this one is the most rule strict. It kind of sucks :)

[Daedalus Templarius]

Meh, seems ridiculous. Maybe you should taunt them a bit, ask them why you can't take your ancient units that are so out of date in a transport you've already paid 250+ pts for, maybe ask them if they are scared that one thing would allow you to run roughshod over them for the whole game, clearly they are terrified of old GKs.

 

Also, seems a bit obscure that BA can't field LRs are heavy support. Did they forget to include them in there? You could always say you could include them in a vulcan/Kor'Sarro list instead, and to not be such babies.

[Daedalus Templarius]

The death-star was the star of the show again in my game yesterday.

 

Libby, Corbula, and 4 GKT rolling in a Godhammer managed to take out: A full squad of eldar guardians, part of a Seer Council, a Wave Serpent, all the Wraithguard inside of the Wave Serpent, an Eldar walker-thing, A leman russ(one lucky shot from a sponson las), and a few other things. I managed to lose the Libby and a GK Term while shrugging off battle-cannon blasts, starcannon shots, and lots of other small arms fire, and several AP2 shots which somehow I managed to make my invuln saves against.

 

The landraider, my allies and enemies said "had the touch of god", managed to fend off lance blasts, vanquisher shots, battle cannon shots, medusa shells, master of ordnance shells, krak missiles, singing spears, and close combat from a witchblade and singing spear.

 

Razorbacks full of assault troops were full on objective capture duty, but helped with the seer council and some snipers.

 

The game was 3000pts(3x1000) vs 3000pts(2x1500), Me, Necrons and Tyranids vs IG, and Eldar. The IG was blowing giant holes in the Tyranid swam until the eldar flank fell to me and I started blasting through tanks from the side. The Necron monolith provided some serious target magnetism coming down the center, but didn't really accomplish much other than getting shot at a bit.

 

Next game I hope to be running another LR, Meph, and an Assault Term squad with 3 THs and 2 LCs inside the 2nd raider.

[SamaNagol]

You would have to take a transport for another unit and put them in it.