We are not overpowered!

[glider0880]

My friend is now refusing to play me because he claims that BA 'are over-powered'. :whistling:!

 

Please persuade him (in this topic) that they are sooooooooo not!

[Pcm979]

Offer to swap armies for the next game, then crush him with his own list.

[Rizara]

Well Blood angels are not overpowered at all. However i will state that compared to the vanilla dex we seem overpowered. Part of this is because our tac squads cost the same but we have a chance at red thirst. Also our devestator squads have much much cheaper weapon options than regular vanilla marine devestators. But those two units are units you will almost never see fielded in most blood angel armies. In the end we aren't really overpowered, we just have some nice tricks that people haven't learned to overcompensate for yet. We have fast vehicles and cheap transports for our assault squads. But these are easily countered by shooting armies that bring lots of anti tank weapons. Once they blow up are fast transports, that still have the same craptastic armor value as all other marine armies then we have to hoof it on foot. Most are taking razorbacks these days so that means lots of small squads that have to cover ground once there transports are blown apart. So its not likely that the small squads can make it across the board.

 

Also we get some nice expensive new units but they are just that, expensive. They take up alot of points, and they have there drawbacks. First off the death company...yeah they are hard as nails to take out, but all you need is some power weapons/fists to remove then in combat, or lots and lots of firepower so they have to roll lots of dice so they start failing them. They aren't impossible to kill, just harder. Also they don't count as a scoring unit, and so they don't help us taking objectives at all. Same with the DC dreads, they are fast moving dreads but they are still dreads. They also take up troop slots so if you take 2 of those and 10 death company, thats only 3 troop slots but still no scoring units. So the tactic for the blood angel player no matter the scenario is to kill kill kill.

As for other cool units, we simply have to many elite options to take all the cool ones. Sure we can get a chaplain in there but the cheap chaplain takes up an elite spot. Those priests that we love to field also take up elite slots. So do the nasty furioso librarian dreads and the tougher non deatch company furioso dreads. Also the new sanquinary guard fit in here too. These guys might seem nasty but they are expensive jump pack troops that essentially get a 2 shot pistol, and a master crafted 2handed power weapon. They also start adding up points and have to be used like a presicion machine to get there points back. Also not mentioned but our techmarines fit in the elites, so do our termies and stern guard.

We also have some expensive characters as well, especially the special characters. Sure they look nasty but they can be dropped just like any other armies characters. Spacewolves have lots of cool characters too, but they also get lots of heroes in a game.

 

So not matter how you look at it, if a blood angel player fields an army that literally looks like a standard vanilla army, we got some slight edge with the fast vehicles and a chance to get furious charge on our units. However if we start taking all the new blood angel only units, we start burning up the points fast and we are down to a smaller, faster force that needs to deliver a precise blow to the enemy. If our momentum gets stopped we can easily be crushed.

Point in example, i almost lost a game to a vanilla marine player who had a shooty army. he took out over half my rides but i only won barely because my last scoring unit was out of sight to any of his guns, and was on an objective. I also focused on killing his two combat squads that could take objectives, while his other two combat squads that were giving some fire support were getting assaulted at the end. I only won the game by taking out his ability to take objectives, but my army was severly crippled. I was left with 1 reedemer, 1 razorback and 1 baal predator and the few remaining death company marines, one assault squad, and 1 furioso dread. I had lost my other 2 assault squads, 1 baal, 1 redeemer and 1 razorback, so i lost half my transports in the first two turns of the game.

 

So were not broken, we just have an extremely fast force that people haven't learned how to react to or how to counter fast enough. Give it time, and wait for the next release to bump us down a notch.

[SamaNagol]

Offer to swap armies for the next game, then crush him with his own list.

 

+1

[Shodo]

I hate Vulkan Vanilla Marines. Other marine armies aren't hard to beat though.

 

I would say BA have some power units, but overall aren't as OP as say Leafblower guard.

[Burningblood]

You want overpowered? Spacewolves are over powered. As mentioned above, so are Gaurd. And Tyranids. Orks are overpowered by shear weight of dice rolls. They can be beaten though. In my experience, when I play this game with a kickboxer's (smash smash) attitude, I loose. Its fun, but I generally end up loosing. However when I play it with more of an Aikido or Judo mood (moving like water), I tend to win.

What army does your friend play?

And maybe he plays it wrong, which is why he looses?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I think we have a very powerful codex.

 

0b

[Burningblood]

Not disagreeing. Just not overpowered.

 

That is... until Storm Ravens become widely available.

[Morticon]

Glider -whats your current list?

[Brother Kovash]

Like others have already posted, the BA codex isn't overpowered, just plays a lot differently. I'm still in the process of collecting my Blood Angels, so I haven't really played the army as I want to yet. I also haven't seen any other BA players yet at my local game shop, so I have yet to face them. But I assume I would play them the same as Tyranids, hang back and fire away as much as possible.

[JamesI]

I won approx 75% of my games with the PDF. Right now I about 40% with the new codex.

 

We're not overpowered. We do have some really nice stuff, and are probably overall stronger than quite a few codexes. But I think Wolves are still better than us overall, and probably not the only codex.

[Isryion]

Here's my attempt at being convincing:

 

As my first 40k army against other new 40k players over the past few months, I'm the only one who plays Blood Angels. I've played mostly against other vanilla marines, tyranids, and space wolves. I think I am just above .500 overall. Coming from Warhammer Fantasy against the same opponents, I have about the same record but it's pretty much agreed that I play softer lists than the rest. Maybe this means my BA version is also softer, but all other things being equal, you'd think I'd win more often if the BA were so overpowered.

[Morticon]

I won approx 75% of my games with the PDF. Right now I about 40% with the new codex.

 

 

I was at 80% plus too, James.

 

Im now

 

11-6-2 Nothing sterling by any stretch.

[the jeske]

My friend is now refusing to play me because he claims that BA 'are over-powered'. :)!

 

Please persuade him (in this topic) that they are sooooooooo not!

 

you are asking in a wronge place man. Only on an eldar forum you would get people actualy say their are overpowered[and that they love it].

 

the BAs have good and bad sides . they have problems with support and they do cost more . what they do realy great is LR rush builds and good counter lists , they can also make playable alfa strike lists. Now it is easy to imagine that with tailoring you can make BAs almost like IG [a very good tailored army] someone plays mecha ? well here come your drop pods turn on disembark one 10 man of sternguar and one ras smoke 3 transports and the guys that got out get flamed by scouting baal with flamestorms . all on turn one. Aside for IG not many armies can do stuff like that. + there is also the problem of some sm players that think that tacticals actualy are well rounded shoting and hth units [like they are suppose to be in the fluff] , but then they play against priest buffed RAS[or SW] and suddenly everything with 2A base seem broken [specialy as BAs rhinos move faster and not all people can or had memorised where and how much to move if you play against meq transports that move more then 12"].

 

So are they broken . no . not as good lists go , but if your friend plays with a fluffy lists and you go with a fluffy list too , then there is a good chance that a BA fluffy lists works and his doesnt[or at least not against BAs],

[Theikos]

I have a similar situation:

 

In my metagame I am actually undefeated with about a dozen games played... It got bad enough that my friends do not want to play any of their 4th edition armies against me at 2000 points, but would rather play at 1500 where we all agree their codices do better. The only exception to this would be the Chaos army which does fairly well at 2000 and usually ties with me.

 

I would ask what army your friend plays and at what point level? If he's playing a much older codex against you at 2000+ I would try playing at 1500 or 1750 with him.. BA really get to flex their muscle at 2000+ so dropping to 1500 tends to lessen the punch to the face I find.

 

Cheers,

Theikos

[Venerable Jazzman]

I won approx 75% of my games with the PDF. Right now I about 40% with the new codex.

 

 

I was at 80% plus too, James.

 

Im now

 

11-6-2 Nothing sterling by any stretch.

Same here, gone from about 70% down to 40%.

Which makes me think that if the Mods and ex-Mods can't win with their own army, it's not over-powered.

[Isryion]

Offer to swap armies for the next game, then crush him with his own list.

 

This is a great way to make a balanced comparison of both lists.

[Leonaides]

Well, I'm a bit lower on the percentages since the new codex (but havent had too many games) - Only 6-1 win/loss ratio, whereas before I was probably 8 or 9 wins to 1 loss... Is it overpowered? No. do people know how to play to its weaknesses yet? Not many, because so many people are focussed on what it can do that they ignore the downsides to it.

[Requiem of the Wolf]

Well, I'm a bit lower on the percentages since the new codex (but havent had too many games) - Only 6-1 win/loss ratio, whereas before I was probably 8 or 9 wins to 1 loss... Is it overpowered? No. do people know how to play to its weaknesses yet? Not many, because so many people are focussed on what it can do that they ignore the downsides to it.

It is not Overpowered. It has some small things in it that if used right would certainly seem overpowered from the outside. For that matter,same with Space Wolves. The only difference is, Blood Angels are newer and people don't know how to counter them effectively. Really,the only people that could claim Blood Angels are Overpowered,are those people still playing 4th edition 'dexs. They are at a Disadvantage but thats just because of the difference between 4th ed and fifth ed.

 

There aren't widely spread tactics to help deal with Blood Angels,and thats why People think they are overpowered. So far,the only thing I have found to be overpowered in any way is the Blood Talons on Dreadnaughts. Initially I thought that Mephiston was overpowered,then I realized he didn't have a invul save. that pretty much settled the issue for me...It just meant I had to hit him harder and faster and from farther away. The Blood Talons ability to chew through an entire squad of units in one round,no matter how many there are,is the only think i can think that would be overpowered,and that comes at a expensive price,and it is a very specialized unit,designed PURELY for taking out infantry units. I personally think that having those combined with higher front armor then anything but a HQ choice thats twice the points is...iffy but Its designed for Close Combat so I can see it.

[Hfran Morkai]

You want overpowered? Spacewolves are over powered. As mentioned above, so are Gaurd. And Tyranids. Orks are overpowered by shear weight of dice rolls. They can be beaten though. In my experience, when I play this game with a kickboxer's (smash smash) attitude, I loose. Its fun, but I generally end up loosing. However when I play it with more of an Aikido or Judo mood (moving like water), I tend to win.

What army does your friend play?

And maybe he plays it wrong, which is why he looses?

 

Oh please...there's no such thing as overpowered codeci. It's all about how you use the book instead of it being inherently of a stupid power level. I could make a dirty list from pretty much any codex, including your Blood Angels codex.

 

So please don't throw down the accusation that an army as a whole is overpowered, because as far as I'm aware they're not.

 

People see new things and panic, the codex is nice and powerful but it comes at a cost balanced throughout the list. Mephiston for example is a scary character, hence his cost and why you can't hide him in a unit.

[Isryion]

You want overpowered? Spacewolves are over powered. As mentioned above, so are Gaurd. And Tyranids. Orks are overpowered by shear weight of dice rolls. They can be beaten though. In my experience, when I play this game with a kickboxer's (smash smash) attitude, I loose. Its fun, but I generally end up loosing. However when I play it with more of an Aikido or Judo mood (moving like water), I tend to win.

What army does your friend play?

And maybe he plays it wrong, which is why he looses?

 

Oh please...there's no such thing as overpowered codeci. It's all about how you use the book instead of it being inherently of a stupid power level. I could make a dirty list from pretty much any codex, including your Blood Angels codex.

 

 

I think this was his point? <_<

[Hfran Morkai]

I think this was his point? <_<

 

But he clearly points out four armies as being overpowered. I'll admit it might be me taking things to literally due to my dyspraxia but he did say they were overpowered.

[Looted Monolith]

I actualy think space wolves as a codex suck, they lost so much and gained to little a decent wolf lord cost the same as mefiston or abadon and can't hold a candle to either.

 

Sure their tactical equivalent is pretty good compared to others, oh wait thier not

Vanilla marines get chapter tactics and we dont use um.

 

Wolf gaurd are stupid expensive

 

they have no apothacary equivilant

 

Logan and the walking rain storm are a joke

 

Blood angels hit harder & faster than any other space marine codex

of course were broken we should be after that abortion pdf we had to endure

your friend is right, tell um to grow a pair or play warmachine

[Looted Monolith]

Just sayin glad my codex wasnt putt off to the wayside for over 10 years in wait of that <_<

[Artemis360]

Offer to swap armies for the next game, then crush him with his own list.

 

This is a great way to make a balanced comparison of both lists.

 

Agreed, this pretty much the best response to this situation.

 

Also, to be honest I think BA are pretty overpowered in comparison to every codex except the news ones; IG, SM, Nid, SW.

I think its the same level as those 4 except IG which is far more broken. If your friend plays any of those 4 armies u can tell him to stick it up his 4$$. Also, you can make a case for them not being OP by mentioning sanguinary guard which totally suck and death company which many people are just shelving now. Also, point out the price of our units. The librarian dreadnaut is not that amazingly spectacular and he weighs in at 175 points. Also compare Dante to Calgar or Logan Grimnir, seriously. Mephiston is the only broken character in the book and even he is accurately priced.

 

P.S. If you use Mephiston, you kind of brought this all on yourself.