Using Devastators

[Ranwulf]

I never used Devastator before...and I want to make a Dawn of War 2 look a like list(which means, using Sergeants with a LOT of Charisma XD), but so, how useful are they? Are Predators better than Devs? Any tips using them? Should I give them a Dedicated Transport?

 

Ran

[Isryion]

There was a lot of discussion of devs in a thread I started about plasma cannons.

 

The consensus I got was that Devs are pretty solid, especially when paired with a priest (I'd go cheap here -- max 65 points) and nearby a tactical squad. There wasn't a lot of discussion about transports, so not sure on that, but here are the salient points:

 

1) A Dev squad with 3 PC and 1 of something else (usually to make good use of the signum) is a good choice if you need something against MEQ.

 

2) A Dev squad with Missile Launchers is the cheapest and most versatile build and is still highly effective.

 

I think how you build them will depend on the rest of your list and what you need. I am taking them because I am in need of long range firepower that can cut through power armor so I'm taking option 1). I also have plenty to deal with vehicles. I realize that the preds are good choices and cheaper, but I like the resilience of the dev squad that can't be taken out with a single shot and I also just like having infantry.

[dekyr]

I am having the same debate with the local GW staff and it comes to a draw really. If you are putting Dev's in, then you are looking for Anti-tank. The rest of the BA Codex is geared for anti-troop(mostly). The pred is a little cheaper but a lucky shot could destroy it. If you put the dev squad in a rhino, you can block key lines of sight and with their numbers you are creating survivability.

 

a 5man dev with 4 LC + rhino is 240pts

pred with TWLC + LCS is 180 (probably more like 195+ as you will want extra armor, etc)

 

each averages out to be the same number of hits per turn.

 

So it really comes down to the rest of your army, for which one you would choose. Personally I am leaning towards the dev's. should be fun :)

[Slim Pickens]

I think 4 PCs and a priest for 200pts total, deployed in cover (preferably on multiple floors of a ruin or building) makes for a nasty firebase no one will deepstike within 36" of, and is actually much harder then it would seem to dislodge.

 

The problem is it eats up a heavy and at least 1/3 of a elite slot, and is static, so doesnt fit in well with the BA playstyle for the most part.

 

A heavy support lascannon sponson pred puts out nearly the firepower of a whole dev squad, and does it while moving 6" a turn. It has the problems of being able to be taken out in one lucky shot, or easily in assault if its caught and has moved only combat speed to fire everything. But for the points I think the pred is more effective in my style of army, being much cheaper at 135 pts.

 

The Devs offer a weapon loadout not found elsewhere in the list (plasma cannons en masse), and that is their real draw, I think. Plus being very survivable plasma cannons if the investment of a priest and perhaps a spare trooper or two is made.

 

I think it really comes down to do you need plasma cannons? because if not, you can find more mobile anti tank or anti infantry elsewhere, often for cheaper.

 

The devs do have the cool blue helmets going for them though... not often seen anymore on the battlefield, but how times have changed from my old 2nd edition lists which were chock full of blue helms! :)

[SnorriSnorrison]

I use a 5 men Dev squad with 2 lascannons, for a total of 140 points. Deploy them in cover, in a high building with good LoS and they have the best opportunities to kill something(tank, creatures or terminators!). And while your army advances, those guys give you some decent suppression fire.

And, as Slim Pickens said, they can be equipped for every task, against every enemy you are likely to face.

 

Snorri

[Dark Legionnare]

It really depends on the game for me. If I'm dealing with my most common opponent, my friend George fielding Space Furries, I go for a 10 man squad. Break them into combat squads, 2 PC's in one, 2 LC's in the other. Sit the PC's slightly up-field, then have the LC's in back with the sergeant and signum for tank hunting, and to maybe snipe off some guys in range each turn if no vehicles. Playing against Orks or Nids I go for 4 ML, frag missile spam is a god send, with krak missiles to Truk and Nob hunt. Usually I keep it to a 5 man, but I've been liking splitting them into combat squads with 2 PC then 2 LC a lot lately. Wicked expensive, but it's diverse enough to handle most armies pretty well. I was a long time hater of plasma weapons because I used to fail "Gets Hot" rolls like it was going out of style. In the last year the dice-gods have shined upon me and I've only lost one Dev to a failed roll. So, if you're looking for a good all around killer I suggest go for at least 2 PC's. You want really cheap versatility, go for 4 ML.

[Andrew_Beck]

From my experiences i highly recommend 5man with 4*ML/2*LC. Plus if you aint short omn points at razorback.

[Ultramarcos]

I'm a long time DH player and always used a shooty inquisitor, with my new BA army I inherited the same fire support style. I use a 2 lc and 2 ml for 160 pts. I focus most of time in heavy armour. Most of the time they end the game with no harm, as I give my adversaries a lot to get distracted.

They are not super effective but due the job for a fair price. And the big advantage against predators or other vehicles is that they are scoring unity.

but as usual All depends on your game style.

[Redo]

Obviously BA Fast Predators have mobility on their side and you can tailor a pred easily for anti-tank or troop duties easily. Yet it only takes one shot and a Pred can be out of the game. Additionally every immobilised, weapon destroyed, stunned or shaken result reduces the effectiveness of the Pred.

 

Devastators on the other hand, whilst not as mobile as Predators tend to be more durable. Additional marines are important and let the heavy weapons continue to fire at full capacity. Put the marines in cover and they become even more durable, add a priest and they can prove to be quiet immovable.

 

With the revised costs for Devastator weaponry (long overdue) Lascannons become a viable option as do plasma cannons. As someone stated you can combat squad them and take out seperate targets. If the 2 units are close enough, the priest will grant them both FNP. The sergeant goes with the 2 lascannos with his signum and they are pretty effective.

[Twin .44]

Obviously BA Fast Predators have mobility on their side and you can tailor a pred easily for anti-tank or troop duties easily. Yet it only takes one shot and a Pred can be out of the game. Additionally every immobilised, weapon destroyed, stunned or shaken result reduces the effectiveness of the Pred.

 

Thank you! Everyone here is really comparing an apple to an orange in this case.

 

Let's look at the Glaive instead of regular power weapon and pistol. Most people are in favor of the regular power weapon and pistol because of potential attacks. Why is it different here? You have more potential in a 4 LC devvy squad than that zot-zot pred. On top of that, the survivability is better as trying to kill ten space marines is a bigger pain in the back door than killing a pred, especially in cover with a priest.

And also, why take only a 5 man devestator squad? You end up having to allocate wounds very fast to your heavy weapons and Sarge which isn't the greatest idea to do. The whole idea is to have those things shoot as many times as possible, yet the risk you guys run with that is incredibly high. Personally, I'll go right after that squad simply because it looks delicious and easy/fast to kill, not to mention an easy kill point. It's strategically irresponsible.

[Dark Legionnare]

My main reason for upping to the two combat squads was this. The two PC's in their own unit get to mow down infantry and the occasional light vehicle. Las Cannons sit waaay in back in a ruin or something, and don't move. The additional bolter marines provide the ability to split the squad, therefore target different units for each weapon. Keep in mind that if you have the 5 man only squad you shoot at a tank with a LC, you shoot at it with everything else. There's no going "Oh look, nuked tank with first LC shot. Now there's a tasty group of Termies to nuke. Pew Pew *explosions*" With the split squad, you can have dedicated "anti-tank and sniping" squad, and a "hammer the enemy infantry" squad. The bolter marines also become the all too essential "Screen Marines" as I call them. They allow the squads to take some hits so the big guns keep firing. The PC's are a real pain in the ass for MEQ armies. Most armies at that level are expensive per squad, so a PC shot chewing up 2 or 3 guys a shot is devastating. Make that two PC shots a turn and you've got delicious anti-blob, and awesome anti-MEQ, not to mention decent anti-vehicle, except for heavier tanks. Las cannons are just great guns. Anti-everything really, snipe tanks, snipe any IC's that stray in the open, etc... In my experience with Dev's they really shouldn't have to move in a game. Set them up somewhere nice with a wide view and go to town, make your opponent fear that 48" no man's land. As someone paraphrased me saying, putting the Seargent with the LC's is a good strategy because it allows you to get that 2+ to hit on really juicy targets, like an approaching Vindicator, or if an IG player is dumb enough, Leman Russ.

[Twin .44]

My main reason for upping to the two combat squads was this. The two PC's in their own unit get to mow down infantry and the occasional light vehicle. Las Cannons sit waaay in back in a ruin or something, and don't move. The additional bolter marines provide the ability to split the squad, therefore target different units for each weapon. Keep in mind that if you have the 5 man only squad you shoot at a tank with a LC, you shoot at it with everything else. There's no going "Oh look, nuked tank with first LC shot. Now there's a tasty group of Termies to nuke. Pew Pew *explosions*" With the split squad, you can have dedicated "anti-tank and sniping" squad, and a "hammer the enemy infantry" squad. The bolter marines also become the all too essential "Screen Marines" as I call them. They allow the squads to take some hits so the big guns keep firing. The PC's are a real pain in the ass for MEQ armies. Most armies at that level are expensive per squad, so a PC shot chewing up 2 or 3 guys a shot is devastating. Make that two PC shots a turn and you've got delicious anti-blob, and awesome anti-MEQ, not to mention decent anti-vehicle, except for heavier tanks. Las cannons are just great guns. Anti-everything really, snipe tanks, snipe any IC's that stray in the open, etc... In my experience with Dev's they really shouldn't have to move in a game. Set them up somewhere nice with a wide view and go to town, make your opponent fear that 48" no man's land. As someone paraphrased me saying, putting the Seargent with the LC's is a good strategy because it allows you to get that 2+ to hit on really juicy targets, like an approaching Vindicator, or if an IG player is dumb enough, Leman Russ.

 

 

Yeah, I get that. The 5 man squads I was talking about are those that make 5 man squads only with 4 heavy weapons. But I have never combat squaded a unit ever in my C:SM CF army and it works out quite well. Then again, that's just me.

My argument on the splitting of the two devestator squads is why bother splitting them to do two jobs? Usually I will have another unit for tank hunting or infantry mow down. Sternguard are better infantry hunters than devestator squads will ever be.

[Dark Legionnare]

Yeah, I get that. The 5 man squads I was talking about are those that make 5 man squads only with 4 heavy weapons. But I have never combat squaded a unit ever in my C:SM CF army and it works out quite well. Then again, that's just me.

My argument on the splitting of the two devestator squads is why bother splitting them to do two jobs? Usually I will have another unit for tank hunting or infantry mow down. Sternguard are better infantry hunters than devestator squads will ever be.

 

Agreed, Sternguard are fabulous anti-infantry and should be taken over a 5 man anti-inf dev team, hands down. I only really field my Devs in 1500+ games, sometimes lower games if there's dreads and stuff I don't want to get too close. I also agree with your statement about the 5 man squad. Putting 4 heavy weapons in a 5 man squad is just asking for one assault squad or large blast to ruin your day. I just love having those PC's chewing up infantry, especially with 5th's rules for drifting blasts. Then tend to do decent damage, even if they scatter.

 

Splitting them for jobs? I really only make the Las cannon squad have a dedicated job. I don't have alot of ranged anti-armor in my army which is where they lend a hand. Whereas the 2 PC's off on their own somewhere just harass, and can indeed prove to be a huge thorn in the enemy's side. Dev's are a great supplicant unit, they can help fill in weaknesses, strong ranged fire being one of mine.