Saturday's Tyranid Battle

[evilturkeyofdoom]

Hi everyone.

 

I have been reading this forum daily for about 2 months now and I thought I would introduce myself and actually post something.

 

I played 40K for about 6 years and then stopped just before 4th eddition came. I have spent lots of time learning the rules and major differences.

 

I have worked on an army list using most of my existing models and I shall be playing against a Tyranid army this weekend.

 

I know the list isn't optimal (assault squad in a rhino was a nice idea when I first tried it years ago, but not sure its even sensible now) but my list is fixed as I don't want to buy any new models

 

My army

Chaplain (rides with the assault squad)

6 Marines in razorback with storm bolter and HK

6 Marines in razorback with storm bolter and HK

9 man Assault squad with flamer and thunder hammer in Rhino with SB & HK.

'Dakka' Predator

2 Vindicator with storm shield.

 

I shall be against

Tyrant, Lashwhip, Bonesword, Heavy Venom Cannon, Acid Blood, Paroxysm, Psychic Scream

8 Genestealers scything talons, Broodlord (aura of despair, hypnnotic gaze)

16 fleshborer termagants

16 hormagaunts

4 tunneling ripper swarms

3 warriors (venom cannon, deathspitter)

And then either 2-3 lictors or a zoanthrope to make up the points to 1000.

 

Given my small man count but fully mechanized army and the equipment I have, how am I going to beat this army?

Also I don't know what the following do (I used to play as Tyranids but it has been a while):

Lashwhip, Bonesword, Heavy Venom Cannon, Acid Blood, Paroxysm, Psychic Scream, aura of despair, hypnnotic gaze? <-- Let me know if there is anything I need to fear.

 

Any thoughts appreciated

[Meatman]

Consider proxying one of those 6 man squads as a sternguard squad for the hellfire shells you need to take down a tyrant.

 

 

Your meched up, thatd good against nids. Vindicators are also golden.

 

Keep a cool head and kill one unit at a time before moving to the next and you should do absolutely fine :RTBBB:

[ShinyRhino]

Proxying as Sternguard would make his list illegal, since the two 6-man squads are the only Troops he has.

[Meatman]

Snap, I missed that.

[Mysticaria]

Heavy Venom canon is just a high strength high AP big gun that hasn't really changed much, it could hurt your rhinos but marines will still get a save. Lash Whip and bone sword are close combat gear that will slow nearby enemies and can instakill characters. Paroxysm is kinda bad, the tyrant can use this psychic ability (with a test) to make one squad really bad at shooting (BS) and fighting (WS) for a turn. If he gets this tyrant into combat with that load out it will be nearly impossible to kill. Acid blood can hurt anyone who does a wound to the tyrant as the acid spills onto them. Anyway, without wings the thing will only be moving 6" a turn and shooting, or moving 6" and running. He only has a 3+ save so krak missiles and long range would seem to be the order of the day. In your list the H/K missiles really want to go at the tyrant. Vindicator could be good as well. Failing that all you got left is to try and get lucky with the bolters.

 

The genestealers have to take a brood lord (really mean sergeant type) to get those psychic upgrades. Just remember he can only use one per turn and they require psychic test. Psychic scream lowers nearby enemy leadership and hypnotism has a chance to mesmerize a nearby model and make them forget to attack. Neither of these are really a big deal since if you get into combat with genestealers you are probably dead anyway.

 

Looking at your list, you should check out the new Blood Angel book. They can take assault squads as troops and get discounts to put them in rhinos and razorbacks. Also they have access to a better chaplain type and vindicators which are fast meaning you can move 12" and still fire. I actually thought your army was blood angels when I read it the first time. Anyway, just a thought. Oh, you'd also be able to proxy those 6 marines as sternguard if you did that too.

 

EDIT: Just noticed he has warriors also. Missiles can instakill these 3-wound guys, so if you get any clear shots don't hesitate. Vindicators would be golden as well. Nothing better than instakilling 3-wound models.

 

-Myst

[evilturkeyofdoom]

Interesting....

 

So what would be the downside of being a bloodangels army?

 

Should I try to stay together, break up into small groups or split up completely?

[Mysticaria]

There might be a thread dedicated to topic somewhere. Basically, the disadvantages come down to:

 

1- a squad might lose combat tactics and get rage instead

2- You have to get another book

3- You don't get access to thunderfire canon

4- You are supposed to paint your guys red

 

I think with your army there aren't really and drawbacks since the troops you are using are all staples in a blood angle force.

 

 

As for the gameplan, you really want to try and keep your troops close enough to support each other, but far enough away so that you don't get multiple assaulted. The genestealers can outflank and have fleet so they have an 18" threat range from the edges of the board. If they outflank you want to keep everything outside that range since you need to be able to shoot at them before they assault you. Mech should help give you mobility to move into rapid fire range and also some resiliency since only the Tyrant can kill them at range. Watch out for hormogaunts as they will probably be S5 with 3 attacks on the charge and get to re-roll some of their misses so going after vehicles they can get a kill with that many attacks. They also have fleet but get to roll 3 dice and pick the highest so they will definately assault you if you are within 17-18" from them at the start of their turn. You want to keep vindicators 18-24" away and pound away, then rapid fire/flamer the little bug hopefully before the genestealers show up. The ripper swarms and fleshborers are not that good so they should be prioritized below the other threats.

 

-Myst

[evilturkeyofdoom]

Thanks for the advice. Had never really thought about it.

 

Certainly don't want to repaint my army but the rest of the downsides can all be coped with.

 

I still don't understand why my marines with bolter and bolt pistol in rhino can claim objectives and my marines with bolt pistol and chainsword can't.

 

Switching would solve that problem.

[Tanhausen]

Welcome back to the game :huh:

 

Just to make sure: when you say your assault marines are ina rhino... I assume they don't have jump packs, do they?

 

As suggested, you could always proxy them as having jump packs... but I don't know how good of an idea getting into CC vs Nids would be... :huh:

[Schultzhoffen]

Stay in cover when not in Transports (although stay here in these) far as possible. 'Nids have very little in the way of frags so you'll strike first. Keep your tac squads mobile for objective taking.

 

Maintain fire discipline. Keep troops together but far enough apart so that 2 units can not be assaulted at the same time by one opposing unit (don't have any unit unsupported). DO NOT ASSAULT without doing SIGNIFICANT shooting damage to said unit.

 

You'll have to treat your boys like gold.

 

Kill the Tyrant and or Warriors first to break synapse (watch out for DS Lictors or infiltrating 'stealers).

 

Protects your tanks from assault if at all possible.

 

Go first (easier said than done)!

 

Good luck

[evilturkeyofdoom]

Thanks for more advice.

 

Assault marines definetly don't have jump packs. When I did this in third edition it was just after the new Rhino came out. It wasn't even technically legal but people allowed it as it was characterful and fitted in with the mounted army theme which was rare at the time. Now I come back and find everyone is mechanized!

 

Stay alive, support each other, be disciplined, kill the nastiest stuff first, try and avoid being overwhelmed. Hide.

 

Got it!

[Mysticaria]

I believe tactical marines have the option to trade bolters for chainswords. You could take the unit you are considering as a tactical squad and make them scoring. You won't get a free rhino, but the point difference in the two squads may make up for it. Or, as you say, if you paint your guys red or call them blood angels then they become scoring anyway <shakes head at GW>. So really there are a couple options if you are looking for scoring guys with chainswords in a rhino. Just have to pick which ones is best.

 

And your one-line battle plan looks solid. Go with that.

 

-Myst

[Tanhausen]

Trygon and Tervigon are a big menace for you.

 

The first is a S6 W6 3+ monster, that can charge to deliver 7 attacks (re-rolling to hit if it has talons).

 

The second starts spawning gaunts that get Feel No Pain if within 15 cm.

 

Fortunately, he doesn't play any :P

 

Your basic idea looks good: take care of your vindis, since they will cause havock for him.. at least for 1 turn 'till he gets to CC!

[Mysticaria]

Trygon and Tervigon are a big menace for you.

 

The first is a S6 W6 3+ monster, that can charge to deliver 7 attacks (re-rolling to hit if it has talons).

 

The second starts spawning gaunts that get Feel No Pain if within 15 cm.

 

Fortunately, he doesn't play any :P

 

Your basic idea looks good: take care of your vindis, since they will cause havock for him.. at least for 1 turn 'till he gets to CC!

yeah, another reason blood angels would be better. Vindicators moving 12" and firing are a lot harder to hit then ones moving 6". Also, I think that Tervigon Feel-no-pain upgrade 'catalyst' costs 15 points, affects one unit per turn, and requires a psychic test. I don't have the book in front of me though and plan on looking it up tonight. I've seen a lot of people playing feel-no-pain and tervigons in different ways lately and I want to confirm what it really does.

 

-Myst

[Tanhausen]

Haven't looked it up and don't have the book with me: when you check it, please update :P

[kaiserstole20]

Trygon and Tervigon are a big menace for you.

 

The first is a S6 W6 3+ monster, that can charge to deliver 7 attacks (re-rolling to hit if it has talons).

 

The second starts spawning gaunts that get Feel No Pain if within 15 cm.

 

Fortunately, he doesn't play any :to:

 

Your basic idea looks good: take care of your vindis, since they will cause havock for him.. at least for 1 turn 'till he gets to CC!

yeah, another reason blood angels would be better. Vindicators moving 12" and firing are a lot harder to hit then ones moving 6". Also, I think that Tervigon Feel-no-pain upgrade 'catalyst' costs 15 points, affects one unit per turn, and requires a psychic test. I don't have the book in front of me though and plan on looking it up tonight. I've seen a lot of people playing feel-no-pain and tervigons in different ways lately and I want to confirm what it really does.

 

-Myst

 

 

All true and it has a 12" range.

[ShinyRhino]

I believe tactical marines have the option to trade bolters for chainswords. You could take the unit you are considering as a tactical squad and make them scoring.

 

No such thing exists, unfortunately.

[evilturkeyofdoom]

I've added my list to the blood angels army list subforum to get some analysis.

 

Sounds like this may be the way to go.

[Arnil]

KILL THE TERVIGON: It can spawn new troops from its belly!!! Playing as blood angels will let you count your tacs as stern and your attacks and troops BUT do you REALLY want to be THAT guy? HA i would suggest lots of template weapons. Nid roast list...Take flamers on the tacticals and the attack...and the commander....and the vidicators...just sort of paste them on...

[Meatman]

Good luck for tomorrow, tell us how it goes :)

[Mysticaria]

I believe tactical marines have the option to trade bolters for chainswords. You could take the unit you are considering as a tactical squad and make them scoring.

 

No such thing exists, unfortunately.

yeah, wonder where I got that from. I remember that being an option but must be an older book or I am losing mymind.

 

-Myst

[death_incarnite]

i agree assault marines never want to get in to cc with nids and the vindis are helpfull but one thing is that with blood angels they have aces to a unit known as sanguinary preists which give units within 6 inches feel no pain and also furioso dreads w blood talons are ammazing for killing bugs. good luck

[ShinyRhino]

I believe tactical marines have the option to trade bolters for chainswords. You could take the unit you are considering as a tactical squad and make them scoring.

 

No such thing exists, unfortunately.

yeah, wonder where I got that from. I remember that being an option but must be an older book or I am losing mymind.

 

-Myst

 

I think it was available as a Chapter Trait in the Fourth Edition codex.

[The Wunup Kid]

i agree assault marines never want to get in to cc with nids and the vindis are helpfull but one thing is that with blood angels they have aces to a unit known as sanguinary preists which give units within 6 inches feel no pain and also furioso dreads w blood talons are ammazing for killing bugs. good luck

This is actually very mulch not true.

 

Depending on the units involved, Marines should (and will) be right at home getting into CC with 'nids.

 

The best possible tactic available is getting your assault marines right where the most in the way, and in cover, and hunkering down and forcing them to assault you (and die before they can swing), going around, or bringing way more force than necessary to bear in order to attempt to overwhelm you.

 

Based on the list posted, here are some things to keep in mind.

 

KNOW WHAT OPTIONS HE GAVE HIS LITTLE BUGS. Basic Hormagaunts are one thing, Hormagaunts with poison and furious charge are a whole 'nother story. As a general rule, it is safe to assume all gaunts of any type will have poison. For 'nid players, MEQ are just too common to not use it all the time.

 

Paroxysm is your greatest threat. No single unit presents a significant worry, unless your troops get Paroxysm'd. Moreso if you stay in cover, as it is the poor bug's frag grenade.

 

Hormagaunts are WS3, I5. This means Furious Charge (were it available to you as it is to, say, Blood Angels) lets you swing at the same time, and you hit on 3s. Furiously charging assault marines will tear apart Hormagaunts outnumbered 3-1.

 

Termagants are worthless. However, as I said above, Termagants with toxin sacs (poison) become a significant threat.

 

I've never played with Lictors, so assuming he's using Zoeys (and given his lack of anti mech capabilities, that'd be a fairly safe bet) target priority should go...

 

Warriors first, with any big guns. HKs and Vindicators, anything that'll one shot them. After that anything that hits hard (pred) should point at the tyrant. Honestly, I don't think tyrants are a great buy under 1500, but to each their own.

 

If the genestealers are on the board, they go next. You definitely wanna shoot them dead if possible.

 

Whatever is closest from there on out. A best bet tactic, if possible, is to roll the assault squad into middle of the table cover, dismount, and start shooting with bolt pistols at the Zoey. Moving the pred into the middle of the board is a decent idea, too. Zoeys die fast to massed shots, bolt pistols or assault marines in CC, and better that he try to warp lance the pred than warp blast any marines.

 

The Tyrant on his own isn't

[Frosty the Pyro]

First laugh at him taking rippers, they are bad, realy bad, obscenely bad. Then pray to the god Emperor that your vindicators blow his tyrant, genestealers, and lictors/zoanthrope away before they rip em to shreads. Genestealers are one of, if not the, best CC unit by points. If they touch one of your squads, the squad will likely die. Fortunatly they are fragile and can be disentigrated by bolters. If you can get your assault squad into a multi assault with his guants and tyrant, put wounds on the guants, and let no retreat handle the tyrant, if your lucky anyway.