First fight against BA

[Schertenleib]

To start with I am still fairly new to this game so I am wondering about some of the moves made by the other player.

 

My list: 1500 pts

 

Rune Priest

TDA

Chooser

 

Land Raider Crusader

 

Wolf Guard x 10

TDA x 7

AC/WC

CF/C-M

PF/C-M x 2

FB/ C-M

CML

TH/SS

 

PA x 3

PF/C-M x 2

TH/SS

 

Greyhunters X 9

Meltagun

Standard

MOTW

Rhino

 

Greyhunters x 9

Meltagun

Standard

MOTW

Rhino

 

Long Fangs x 6

Sgt w/Flamer

ML x 3

Lascannon x 2

 

Blood Angels:

 

Storm Raven with 10 Marines and a Dreadnought equpied with Blood Claws

Dante and Sang. Guard

Second Sang. Gaurd unit

Assault Marine Squad

 

Game was two objectives, Pitched Battle

Board set in general: Fortress of Redemption in the center. My objective was in a tall ruin on my board edge just below the FoR. His objective was in a tall ruin on his board edge to my upper left flank.

 

I let him have first turn. He placed the Storm Raven behind cover and reserved everything else.

 

Each Greyhunter pack got a WG with PF/C-M

Long Fangs got WG with Cyclone.

Everything else went into the LRC

 

Long Fangs were placed on a roof top. One Rhino underneath. These are in the ruin with my objective.

Second Rhino and LRC set to run for his objective.

 

His move: Moved Lander about 18" behind FoR claimed 2+ save do to his speed. Disembarked Dread and Marines. (don't recall any die roll just a disembark)

 

Long Fangs fired at lander (5 Krak missiles and one Lascannon, second Las did not have LOS) with Crew Shaken result. Was told that the cockpit is reinforced and ignores Shaken and Stunned.

LRC and Rhino moved forward, popped smoke.

 

Lander moves around FoR ,about 12" ,and unloads all of it's firepower (meltas, las, 4 rockets) Long Fangs totally destroyed. Dread moves around the top of the FoR. Marines move toward the rear of the FoR.

 

Land Raider fires at Tac Sqaud taking out 3 Marines. Rhino in support. Second Rhino stays in cover with objective.

 

He makes his reserve rolls. On Sang Gaurd (Desent of Angels) lands near his objective. Dante and Second Sqaud deepstrike near the land raider (no scatter do to locator beacon in the Tac Squad). Assault Squad deep strikes to the right side of the FoR (also no scatter do to the locator beacon in the Tac Squad). Dread advances on Landraider. Marines move onto lower deck of FoR. My land raider is now beween Dante and the dread. Dante's sqaud fires several hand held meltas blowing up the landraider. Dread assaults the TDA Wolfguard. With a nearby chapter banner Dread Inititve is 6. I fail all my Inv saves and my HQ and Wolfgaurd are whipped out by the Bloodclaw on the dread.

 

My rhino moves to engage the dread, second rhino begins to move to support. Fire two meltaguns from the first rhino. missed.

 

Dante's squad blows up rhino 1, Sorm raven blows up rhino 2 (two dead from rhino blast). Dread whipes out first squad of Greyhunters in assault. I concede the game as he has only lost three marines and I only have seven Greyhunters and a power armor Wolfguard left.

[JamesI]

I haven't used the raider yet, but I don't recall it ignoring shaken and stunned, and I thought the save for a fast skimmer moving fast was 4+.

 

A Storm Raven is fast, but if it moves 12 it can only fire one main weapon (and another with Power of the machine spirit).

[Freman Bloodglaive]

Fast Skimmers only get a 4+ save due to speed.

 

He was cheating.

[Wispy]

He claimed a 2+ save? really? No, vehicles only get 4+.

 

He claimed it ignore shaken and stunned? It does not. Shaken count as stunned, if he paid for extra armor

 

Laaaaaaaaaame.

 

He was stunned, he should not have been able to annihilate you long fangs. And furthermore, even if he could shoot, he could only fire one weapon + 1 more machine spirit, as he moved 12.

 

 

 

you got punked.

[Vassakov]

The Storm Raven gets a 4+ Save for moving fast, and can fire one main weapon + all defensive weapons. And one for PotMS.

 

As for the reinforced bit, IIRC that's Ceramite Plating and so it can ignore melta bonuses. Extra Armour allows it to downgrade stunned to shaken, but it can't ignore both outright.

 

So yeah, so far he's not playing by the rules particularly well... Next he'll be claiming Sang Guard get Inv Saves...

[tahrikmili]

Hmm sounds like you got cheatowned.

[RunningWolfFenris]

Sorry buddy, you got fleeced on this game. I'm assuming it was simple ignorance or rules or a misunderstanding and he wasn't outright cheating. But yeah, LR and Speeder definitely don't behave like that it's a 4+ and a down grade stunned to shaken.

Now you know... and knowing is half the battle ... G-I JOE!!!

[Grimtooth]

To start with I am still fairly new to this game so I am wondering about some of the moves made by the other player.

 

My list: 1500 pts

 

Rune Priest

TDA

Chooser

 

Land Raider Crusader

 

Wolf Guard x 10

TDA x 7

AC/WC

CF/C-M

PF/C-M x 2

FB/ C-M

CML

TH/SS

 

PA x 3

PF/C-M x 2

TH/SS

 

Greyhunters X 9

Meltagun

Standard

MOTW

Rhino

 

Greyhunters x 9

Meltagun

Standard

MOTW

Rhino

 

Long Fangs x 6

Sgt w/Flamer

ML x 3

Lascannon x 2

 

Blood Angels:

 

Storm Raven with 10 Marines and a Dreadnought equpied with Blood Claws

Dante and Sang. Guard

Second Sang. Gaurd unit

 

I let him have first turn. He placed the Storm Raven behind cover and reserved everything else.

 

Each Greyhunter pack got a WG with PF/C-M

Long Fangs got WG with Cyclone.

Everything else went into the LRC

 

Long Fangs were placed on a roof top. One Rhino underneath.

Second Rhino and LRC set to run for his objective.

 

His move: Moved Lander about 18" claimed 2+ save do to his speed. Disembarked Dread and Marines.

 

Long Fangs fired at lander with Crew Shaken result. Was told that the cockpit is reinforced and ignores Shaken and Stunned.

LRC and Rhino moved forward.

 

Lander moves about 12" and unloads all of it's firepower (meltas, las, rockets) Long Fangs totally detroyed.

 

(More Later)

 

Wow, bad BA player.

 

1. He moved Flat Out so 4+ save, not 2+.

 

2. He hosed you on the reinforced cockpit crap. If he even had extra armor, he still would have been Crew Shaken.

 

3. He moved Flat Out, so he could only deploy his dread and 10 man unit via Skies of Blood. You didn't mention if he did that or not, but I am guess not.

 

4. He then moved at cruising speed so would onlt be able to fire one offensive and all defensive. He shouldn't have been able to fire in the first place and your LF would have blasted the hell out of it.

 

Overall you got hosed pretty hard. Call the guy out next time since these seem more like noob mistakes then actual cheating.

[Stormbrow II]

1. He moved Flat Out so 4+ save, not 2+.

Just to let you know as well that if he moves Flat Out he can't use his Power of the Machine Spirit to shoot a weapon. You may do nothing other than turbo when you move Flat Out. It might come in handy next time.

 

The others seem to have covered everything else tbh.

[Decoy]

Lawl cheaters. Either it's habitual (Sorry, can't buy into "maybe he made a mistake"; he essentially made up a rule on the spot. That's no mistake.), or he genuinely thought you were going to clobber him.

 

Wonderful to know the BA boys have to cheat to beat us! :D

[tahrikmili]

Wonderful to know the BA boys have to cheat to beat us! :P

 

Er wat?

[Grimtooth]

Wonderful to know the BA boys have to cheat to beat us! :P

 

Er wat?

 

In this case it is leaning pretty hard on outright cheating despite my previous statement. I mean reinforced canopy isn't even in the codex anywhere. A 2+ cover save for moving Flat Out? C'mon! C'MON!!!!!!

 

 

C'MON!!!!!!

[Requiem of the Wolf]

Wonderful to know the BA boys have to cheat to beat us! :P

 

Er wat?

 

In this case it is leaning pretty hard on outright cheating despite my previous statement. I mean reinforced canopy isn't even in the codex anywhere. A 2+ cover save for moving Flat Out? C'mon! C'MON!!!!!!

 

 

C'MON!!!!!!

What is truely sad about this...is that BA codex has plenty of tools to be very competitive against Space Wolves. That rather then playing a Fight that...well...Would have stood a decent chance of going the BA players way,he decided to cheat blatantly and repeatedly.

[Grimtooth]

Wonderful to know the BA boys have to cheat to beat us! :rolleyes:

 

Er wat?

 

In this case it is leaning pretty hard on outright cheating despite my previous statement. I mean reinforced canopy isn't even in the codex anywhere. A 2+ cover save for moving Flat Out? C'mon! C'MON!!!!!!

 

 

C'MON!!!!!!

What is truely sad about this...is that BA codex has plenty of tools to be very competitive against Space Wolves. That rather then playing a Fight that...well...Would have stood a decent chance of going the BA players way,he decided to cheat blatantly and repeatedly.

 

See, I wonder if the 2+ cover save came up after the Long Fangs fired on the Storm Raven and scored some penetrating hits which were negated by a fake 2+ cover save. That in junction with the "reinforced canopy" bullcrap, it seems like the BA player was doing/saying anything to save his Storm Raven.

[Blarmb]

The rules weren't played correctly. It could have been out of plain misunderstanding the rules, remembering things incorrectly, not being aware of changes to the rules, an assumption that some house rule they're used to was in play when it wasn't, or cheating... or something else. I don't see the point in speculating and getting all relied up about something there really isn't much evidence for either way.

 

When I started playing, my group was horribly off base about how rapid fire weapons worked. Getting 2 shots if you did move, 1 if you didn't regardless of range with no impact on assault ability. Where that idea came from... I have no clue. At one point I was just reading the section of the rule book about weapon types and went "Wow. That is really fundamentally, totally wrong. Where in the world did that come from?".

[hmk17]

I won't throw out the "Shenanigans Flag" very quickly during a game, but instead ask questions and go to the BRB for basic issues. Ask to see army lists, ask to check his codex, things that of that nature if he states superseding rules.

 

If he cannot produce any of the above, then things might be more on the sinister side.

 

If something odd comes up or it sounds off to you, stop and check the rule book. His response will let you know if he is cheating or its an innocent misunderstanding of some sort.

 

That being said, your fellow wolf brothers have your back here. They've covered every mistake the guy made. I particularly enjoy the error in the rain of destruction that was heaped on your LF's. If moved 12" he could have only fired 1 of those total. Granted, a lone Bloodstrike Missile could have wiped them easily enough; but he needed everything.

 

 

Feel free to post the rest of it, as hopefully you can now look back over it and laugh.

[Grimtooth]

I would really like to know if he deployed via Skies of Blood. Moving Flat Out and then deploying that many models and a dreadnought, you are bound to roll at least one 1 and lose the whole batch or immobilize the dreadnought on landing.

[JamesI]

When I started playing, my group was horribly off base about how rapid fire weapons worked. Getting 2 shots if you did move, 1 if you didn't regardless of range with no impact on assault ability. Where that idea came from... I have no clue. At one point I was just reading the section of the rule book about weapon types and went "Wow. That is really fundamentally, totally wrong. Where in the world did that come from?".

You are describing 3rd edition rapid fire rules.

[Blarmb]

When I started playing, my group was horribly off base about how rapid fire weapons worked. Getting 2 shots if you did move, 1 if you didn't regardless of range with no impact on assault ability. Where that idea came from... I have no clue. At one point I was just reading the section of the rule book about weapon types and went "Wow. That is really fundamentally, totally wrong. Where in the world did that come from?".

You are describing 3rd edition rapid fire rules.

 

Good to know. Well before my time, heh.

[hmk17]

I would really like to know if he deployed via Skies of Blood. Moving Flat Out and then deploying that many models and a dreadnought, you are bound to roll at least one 1 and lose the whole batch or immobilize the dreadnought on landing.

 

Sounds like he probably did.

 

I'm betting reinforced cockpit covers the drop off, though. :D

[Schertenleib]

Thanks for all the replies. In all honesty I'm less worried about what he did than I am about my own actions and list.

 

This was the first time I have used a Land Raider and only about the third time I've played a 1500 pt game. Did I put too many points into the LRC? Should I have taken more Greyhunters? More Long Fangs? Is there a fault in my list that I need to be aware of?

 

I see now that I need to make a habit of asking to see things in the BRB or his Codex when we play, but that will come with time as I get a better grasp of this game.

[Blarmb]

You seem to have taken some very pricey options on your Wolf Guard, that I'm fairly sure weren't earning their keep. You've got a 68-point model in power armor with 2 attacks, 1 wound and WS 4. You've got about as many bodies and less vehicles than I run at 1000 points, and I run what I'd consider a dangerously low model count. Yes a land raider is a pretty big points investment, but there are other places you could shave.

 

For example, the Flamer on your Long Fangs pack leader. Yes it's only 5 points, but it's a very silly 5 points.

[Schertenleib]

For example, the Flamer on your Long Fangs pack leader. Yes it's only 5 points, but it's a very silly 5 points.

 

 

Yeah I know on that one. I had 5 pts left.

[Vorion]

If something feels strange rules wise call it out, worst you can do is be wrong and that just helps you learn. I play with a group where most have been playing since 3rd ed and we still miss silly things like synapse for a group of gaunts or thinking Fenrisian Wolves have "And they shall know no fear" rule

 

Mistakes are made no matter how long you have been playing so it never hurts to double check

[hmk17]

Thanks for all the replies. In all honesty I'm less worried about what he did than I am about my own actions and list.

 

This was the first time I have used a Land Raider and only about the third time I've played a 1500 pt game. Did I put too many points into the LRC? Should I have taken more Greyhunters? More Long Fangs? Is there a fault in my list that I need to be aware of?

 

I see now that I need to make a habit of asking to see things in the BRB or his Codex when we play, but that will come with time as I get a better grasp of this game.

 

 

Whoa there. We can help you fine tune the army list stuff and give advice there, but you CANNOT be worried about anything in that game tactics-wise.

 

The minute "reinforced canopy" got tossed in, legitimate tactics and methods went out the window. You could have operated everything to a T, but still lost badly due to "errors" from your opponent.

 

Wipe your hands clean of this one and move on to the next game. Read some of the stuff here on the forums, check a few of the SW blogs out there, solidify your knowledge base of what units CAN do. Then play the next game.

 

 

Remember, even the best battle plans unravel upon contact with the enemy.