First fight against BA

[Grimtooth]

Yea man, that 10man unit and dread should not have been able to even disembark without doing the Skies of Blood. That could have lost him the whole unit if he rolled a 1 and could have seriously changed the game completely.

 

A solid plan is not going to ever work if the guy is going to just cheat his way out of situations.

[Godhead]

Everytime, I've ran a solo landraider it has performed horribly. Wrecked/Destroyed/Immoblized always by round 2. When I run two.. they are absolutely AMAZING for me.

 

WG can get pricey quick as well.

 

As far as being able to ignore stunned and shaken, wasn't that part of the old 3rd ed POTMS? I think in the daemon hunters codex it mention that the LR can ignore shaken or stunned or fire one weapon extra weapon. I'll need to pull my book out for clarification.

 

A few of my friends and I were talking, and the thing about the SW codex, is that very few lists are identical. In fact, it's more than likely for each one to be radically different. I played one tournement a few weeks ago and there were 4 sw armies there, and each one vastly different from the next. So things work for some players, and not at all for the next. Long Fangs are a good example. They don't worth a damn for me. I have to rely on speeders to do the same job, and they work much better. My friend Daniel swears by his long fangs and can't keep a speeder on the table to save his life. He can run a single LR 5 games in a row and have it escape unscathed, me I can't get through a single game without losing it. The codex (imo) really allows for an army that is full of character and reflects the owners vision on warfare in the 41st millenium.

 

My best advice to you would be to try out your list in a fair match and see how it performs. That will allow you to make the necessary changes to your list. We can give all the advice in the world and it might not work out at all for you. Play your list, pay attention to the areas you struggled in, and then come back and post up the situation and weakness you are have to get advice as to what might be a better fit. Then you'll have to play test that to see what works for you.

[Schertenleib]

Thank you my Brothers. This is why I love the Fang!

[Wispy]

For example, the Flamer on your Long Fangs pack leader. Yes it's only 5 points, but it's a very silly 5 points.

 

 

Yeah I know on that one. I had 5 pts left.

5 points on the rune priest gets you melta-bombs.

 

It would be half-way useful as opposed to not-useful at all.

[vahouth]

Just to let you know as well that if he moves Flat Out he can't use his Power of the Machine Spirit to shoot a weapon. You may do nothing other than turbo when you move Flat Out. It might come in handy next time.

 

No, you are wrong mate.

PoTMS allows the vehicle to fire one more weapon than would normally be allowed.

[Stormbrow II]

Vahouth - you may do nothing else for the turn when you move Flat Out. All you can do is turbo. That's it. No pew-pew.

[vahouth]

A vehicle that moves flat out is not allowed to shoot.

PotMS allows you to shoot one more weapon than normal, so 0+1=1

Besides, if a Land Raider is allowed to shoot when shaken or stunned, why shouldn't the Storm Raven do the same when moving flat out?

[hmk17]

I'm inclined to agree with Vahouth.

 

..."can fire one more weapon than would normally be permitted."

 

The trick with PotMS is, it is the ONLY weapon you can fire off if you move Flat Out in the Storm Raven. As the rules for Flat Out even nix defensive weapons from firing.

[IronWITHyou]

I would disagree,

 

power of the mashine spirit can only be used when u can fire one or more or no weapons , but it cannot be used during the flat out move as you are specifically FORBIDEN to do anything else then just move forward/backward/somewhere else. Its the same thing as you would want to pop smoke launchners on your land raider and then shoot using the mashine spirit, which u cannt do as there is also specifically stated that you cant do anything else that turn....

 

so for me its shooting 0 weapon or being forbiden to do anything that turn two very different things....

 

i dont have rulebook with me but somebody should check the wording....

[Blarmb]

I would disagree,

 

power of the mashine spirit can only be used when u can fire one or more or no weapons , but it cannot be used during the flat out move as you are specifically FORBIDEN to do anything else then just move forward/backward/somewhere else. Its the same thing as you would want to pop smoke launchners on your land raider and then shoot using the mashine spirit, which u cannt do as there is also specifically stated that you cant do anything else that turn....

 

so for me its shooting 0 weapon or being forbiden to do anything that turn two very different things....

 

i dont have rulebook with me but somebody should check the wording....

 

 

Fast vehicles are capable of a third level of speed called flat out. This represents a the fast vehicle moving at stop speed, without firing it's guns and is treated in all respects exactly the same as moving at cruising speed for a for a vehicle that is not fast(except where otherwise noted).

[Roland Durendal]

As much as I hate to say it, the BA's can fire it. This issue came up recently with regard to firing something using PotMS even if you used smoke in your movement turn.

 

The logic is, smoke (and movin flat out), say "no shooting" etc. etc., but PotMS clearly states, "may fire 1 more weapon than allowed" (paraphrasing here). Moreover, PotMS allows shooting even when stunned, which also say "a vehicle may not shoot/move". So while I agree it makes the Storm Raven uber powerful (well it makes anything with PotMS pretty powerful), it is technically legal.

 

As for the OP, next time just ensure he's clear on the rules, and if ever something fails your Common Sense Test (i.e. you do the "Wait...what?" ask politely for him to clarify the rule and maybe ask to see ifyou can read it too.

[Grimtooth]

The debate comes up in the use of the wording "one more weapon then allowed".

 

If you are not even allowed to fire in the first place, how can you shoot one more weapon. The statement means, in addition too any other weapon you are firing. If you are not even allowed to fire a weapon in the first place, you cannot fire "one more weapon then allowed".

[JamesI]

The debate comes up in the use of the wording "one more weapon then allowed".

 

If you are not even allowed to fire in the first place, how can you shoot one more weapon. The statement means, in addition too any other weapon you are firing. If you are not even allowed to fire a weapon in the first place, you cannot fire "one more weapon then allowed".

Which would mean POTMS doesn't work if stunned or shaken, doesn't work if a non-fast vehicles moves at cruising speed

[hmk17]

What's the debate there?

 

(Whatever is allowed) + 1 = Profit

 

Crew Shaken - Vehicle may not shoot

Crew Stunned - Vehicle may not shoot

Cruising Speed - Vehicle may not shoot (Fast Vehicles may fire 1 weapon + defensive weapons)

Combat speed - Vehicle may fire 1 weapon and defensive weapons (Fast Vehicles may fire all weapons + defensive weapons)

 

 

The PotMS covers all of the above. Probably an oversight of cut and paste, forgetting that the SR was also given the special rule.

 

Logically, it make sense that it gets the 1 shot only. But GW could come back and say otherwise. Never know...

 

Might send this one into Beasts of War and see what cheese Darrel finds in it.

[Blarmb]

The debate comes up in the use of the wording "one more weapon then allowed".

 

If you are not even allowed to fire in the first place, how can you shoot one more weapon. The statement means, in addition too any other weapon you are firing. If you are not even allowed to fire a weapon in the first place, you cannot fire "one more weapon then allowed".

Which would mean POTMS doesn't work if stunned or shaken, doesn't work if a non-fast vehicles moves at cruising speed

 

Which by elimination would mean it only works when an vehicle moves combat speed, a specific enough that case that I think even GW would have mentioned it if that was the intent.

[Vassakov]

On the PotMS vs Flat Out Debate... Codex > BRB. PotMS specifically states you can fire one more weapon than would normally be allowed, circumstances irrelevant.

 

With the sole exception of Weapon Destroyed. At which point, the Iron Priest can earn his keep.

[TiguriusX]

I cast my vote in favor of POTMS allowing you to fire 1 weapon as well

[Blarmb]

I cast my vote in favor of POTMS allowing you to fire 1 weapon as well

 

It's not even really a grey area. If something with PoTMS is alive and has a gun on it, it can fire that gun. Well unless somehow it was in a state where it could fire -1 or fewer weapons. I'm not aware of anything that could cause that state though.

[Stormbrow II]

Yeah, I've asked around my gaming group and we're playing it that it can shoot after it turbos.

 

It helped me make a mess of an Ironclad Dread earlier so I'm not complaining about it.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

You can fire, as Codex trumps rulebook.

(this also goes our way with the other WTN grenade issue).

 

WLK

[Requiem of the Wolf]

You can fire, as Codex trumps rulebook.

(this also goes our way with the other WTN grenade issue).

 

WLK

I allways thought it was pretty clear. No matter what the operators do,The vehicle itself decides to spin a Turret or a Sponson,and blast an enemy. It made the most sense I think with the Space Wolf codex,as it describes the Machine Spirit hunting and killing its prey in addition to what the gunner manages.