An unusual threat

[Brother Gathurn]

One of our usuall players has recently turned to an unusual army. Dark Eldar. His army is extremly dificult to beat. His list looks something like this.

 

6x warriors squads in raiders

1 leader +retinue in raider

3 ravegers

1 witch squad in raider or one of the jump pack squads with the heavy 4 assault weapons, but sometimes he takes different stuff here

3x haemunculi

 

His list often changes but he always runs the 6 warrior squads at least two ravagers and the leader=retinue.

 

It's a formidable army. Everything is mounted in a fast opentopped transport with a viable tankhunting gun on it and theres alot of it to kill. (this is at 1500 points) the ravagers are less problomatic. They don't have the armour to slug it out with most of our tanks, however theres alot of them, and even if they die there is no shortage of dark lances.

 

I usually start by taking out the raider with the leader and retinue in it. There much easier to deal with walking and with only a 5+ save plus some 3+ they don't last long. It's the warriors that are a problem. In a straight objective battle they can zoom in at almost any point in the game to contest/take objectives. I've yet to play a base battle with them, but i imagine it would be interesting. And in kill points, he goes straight for points and then focuses on weaker units. Which he can do with the amount of mobility he has.

 

Any suggestions would be appreciated. I'm not rally interested in tailoring my army to hunt dark eldar as that is both unsportsmanly and unconvienient. He is only one person after all and i play many others. Mostly i'm looking for strategy advice and minor changes to a list that can be made to help beat back dark eldar. thanks in advance for any help!

[H.C.118]

Well, for me, DE are sharks, don't move, don't live. Of course, I've seen the DE shooty armies too, but they don't always fare so well. Remember, AV10 transports + open topped + folks with kleenex thin armor = easy way to die.

[Jackelope King]

Dark Eldar are like Mech Eldar in one respect: they will out-range you and pick you to pieces slowly but surely. That's how a good Dark Eldar Raider army is built: you'll have tons of Raiders and Ravagers with Night Shields, which gives all your shots a penalty to their range. This is where it differs from a Mech Eldar army: Mechdar are stupidly durable, and it'll take a mountain of shots just to successfully knock a weapon off of a well-prepared Falcon. Dark Eldar just zoom around and don't let you get a shot in while they surgically disassemble you.

 

To beat them, luckily, the preparation is the same. Get long-ranged firepower. That means Autocannons, that means missile launchers, and if you're really feeling daring or are building a list around then, Las Cannons do the job too. The former two weapons are just more consistent in all-comers lists, so you'd do well to have platforms for them available anyway (in my army, they come from Rifleman Dreadnoughts, Dakka Predators, and missile launchers from Land Speeder Typhoons). Keep your army clustered together. Even with Night Shields, you'll still out-range him very consistently, and force him to come into range of your firebase to do any damage.

 

Your goal, damage-wise is not total destruction of a Raider on any given turn: you want fire-suppression. That means lots of glancing hits, spread out, to deny the Dark Eldar player the ability to concentrate his fire on you, and you will win the long-ranged firefight. You will consistently pour high rate-of-fire, mid-to-high-strength shots into his Raiders. Eventually, you will kill them, but you will consistently keep them hobbled. Do this, and you're in good shape. Long-ranged weapons against Dark Eldar will let you set the tempo for the game, something the Dark Eldar player counts on to win.

 

Next, are you mech'd up? If not, the Lord and Retinue will drag your carcass around the battlefield by your optic nerves, after the Homonculii pepper you with scary friggin' shots and the Wyches do a dance with your entrails. Dark Eldar punish your infantry for not being mech'd up. If Codex: Tyranids didn't convince you that it's time to mech up yet, do it now.

 

Once you control the tempo and have downed a few paper airplanes, it's just a matter of cleanup. Keep your long-ranged weapons suppressing the fire of the Raiders and Ravagers, but direct your low-strength weapons on stranded Warriors or Wyches. Don't engage the Lord and Retinue in close combat unless your army packs a serious close-combat rock. No, Assault Squads won't cut it. The Lord will carve up half your squad, and everyone who is left will bounce off the Incubii armor. You need a serious invuln save on everyone or most of the squad, you need power weapons, and you need to deliver it to them reliably. Shooting is usually much easier, but things like TH/SS termies or very kitted-out Command Squads (especially Bike Command squads) can do the trick.

 

But do not split up. Think of a game against Dark Eldar as a horror movie: if you split up, you will die. Castle your army. Suppressing fire at the Raiders until they start going down. Stay mech'd up until the major melee threats are neutralized. Then clean up.

[Gen. Confusion]

Here is a link to a discussion about how to beat mobile armies.

 

link

[Brother Prometheus]

Want to beat DE ?

 

Take this as troops

 

10 man tac squad with ML and flamer

Razorback with TLHB

 

X2

 

The rest is optional...

 

With some cleaver positioning you can :

 

-down 3-4 raiders a turn

-wipe 1-2 raiders + payload

[Fatuous]

Deffo worth reading any Dark Eldar forums or tacticas you can fidn for how DE really play, as I always thought they were CC :)

 

Do stick together

Do target the lord, and shoot him off the table. If he gets in CC that unit is dead.

Wyches will tarpit your most CC uber unit. Don't let them. Even CC terminators, or power weapon wheilding command squads wont get thru them, they'll just get less attacks, and be fight at lower WS, and the wyches will get their inv saves. Treat them like the lord, and shott them up before they get near you.

 

Bolters can and will effectively take down a raider, so do not be affraid to use an entire squad to shoot a raider down. Odds are good they'll manage it. If you have a decent special weapon inthe squad, then just use pistols, and attempt to charge the contents when they jump out (and hopfully take damage).

 

Don't under estimate their fire power.

Don't let isolated units get picked off, that is exactly what any Achron worth his salt wants.

 

Do pack flamers, DE drop like guardsmen.

[Brother Gathurn]

Thanks for all the advice. Pretty much excatly what i was looking for. I also figured out that a squad of three land speeders all with ml's munch through raiders. Move forward 6, then 6 ml shots takes one down most turns. And if they can stand still there heavy bolters are great too.

[Koremu]

Thanks for all the advice. Pretty much excatly what i was looking for. I also figured out that a squad of three land speeders all with ml's munch through raiders. Move forward 6, then 6 ml shots takes one down most turns. And if they can stand still there heavy bolters are great too.

Land Speeders are Fast Vehicles. You can move 12" and fire the Krak Missiles, or move 6" and fire both Kraks and Heavy Bolters.

 

You can also move 12" and fire both the Heavy Bolters and Frag Missiles, as Frags are Defensive Weapons, FWIW.

[Justicar Valius]

If you have the slots it may be worth splitting the thyphoons (which win vs any army, not just DE by the way) into 1 speeder squadrons or a one squadron and a 2 squadron. Splitting the fire to make sur they aren't firing the 80bajillion Dark lances^TM won't hit you. They can still be next to eachother, just helps to be able to split your fire.

[DarkGuard]

I have a guy at my LGS who uses a very similar army. At 1500pts he uses an Archon with agonizer and shadowfield with Incubi ret in Raider, 6 Warrior units with blasters in Raiders and two Ravagers. I have yet to beat him, though I've come close. I agree with what people say here, the Incubi ret is best of having it's Raider blown apart, but with the sheer amount of Raiders and scoring units it's hard to do objectives against them. I find meching up works best, as he uses horrorfexes a lot. Just pick your targets well, get some Land Speeders and bikes to match him for speed and don't let him assault you with his Incubi (assault his Warriors though if you can, they break easy in combat).

[Fatuous]

If you have the slots it may be worth splitting the thyphoons (which win vs any army, not just DE by the way) into 1 speeder squadrons or a one squadron and a 2 squadron. Splitting the fire to make sur they aren't firing the 80bajillion Dark lances^TM won't hit you. They can still be next to eachother, just helps to be able to split your fire.

 

I second this, adn would even try out 1 LS per squad.

 

increases your hits per turn, u should be effectively penetrating 1 each per turn, and means they cant all be shot down by 1 ravanger!!!!!!!!

 

of course, u loose some survivorabilty against lone dark lances...........

[DarkGuard]

If you have the slots it may be worth splitting the thyphoons (which win vs any army, not just DE by the way) into 1 speeder squadrons or a one squadron and a 2 squadron. Splitting the fire to make sur they aren't firing the 80bajillion Dark lances^TM won't hit you. They can still be next to eachother, just helps to be able to split your fire.

 

I second this, adn would even try out 1 LS per squad.

 

increases your hits per turn, u should be effectively penetrating 1 each per turn, and means they cant all be shot down by 1 ravanger!!!!!!!!

 

of course, u loose some survivorabilty against lone dark lances...........

 

Which a good Dark Eldar list have a lot of, pretty much one on each Raider and Ravager, and when you're fielding 7 Raiders and 2 Ravagers that's a lot of dark lances which can easily take down isolated Land Speeders. I'd imagine rifleman Dreads may actually be better in the long run, with better armour, and more shots to make sure the Raiders are taken down.

[Grey Mage]

Their durability against dark lances is no worse then their durability against missile launchers, and actually better than against lascannons. Taking Landspeeder is in no way a liability against an Eldar or Dark Eldar list.

 

Will they be a priority target for an intellegent opponent? Yes. But then they are against most intellegent opponents regardless of race.

 

Landraiders, and vindicators/predators for that matter, are at a disadvantage because the lance rule actually affects them. Even then, I wouldnt hesitate to drop dakka-preds into a list I knew was facing dark eldar.