Blood Angel Jump pack troops

[Requiem of the Wolf]

Ok,very simple and straight forward question. To my understanding,Blood Angels send their new recruits to the scout company first. Once they have gotten out of the scouts and become full fledged blood angels,How long and How experienced would a recruit need to be before being put into a jump pack unit? Is it something that could happen right off the bat or is it reserved for experienced troops or veteran troops?

 

The reason I am asking is I am planning on having the characters in my stories,a group of fairly experienced Blood Claws (entry level Space Wolf troops) in a situation where they have to use jump packs as part of a extended fight. I was also planning on having a friendly rivalry developing between the characters and the members of a squad of Blood Angels that were also doing missions in the same area. Now there is no question that the Blood Angels would be far more adept at using the Jump packs,I just want to know basically how long it takes a Blood Angel to get his wings essentially.

[toaae]

Typically, the first squad a full-fledged Blood Angel is assigned to is an Assault Squad.

[Requiem of the Wolf]

Typically, the first squad a full-fledged Blood Angel is assigned to is an Assault Squad.

So that would mean that chances are good,that you would see a Blood Angel Squad using Jump packs,almost out of the box right? Part of the reason I am asking this is because with the blood claws at least,they are still in the "must prove myself at every step" stage of their lives. The way I look at it,is that the other chapters would probably have a similar viewpoint once they had left the scouts. and I felt that the possibility of a good story from that interaction would be worth doing.

[Guardian of the Rage]

That would be correct, though it is not entirely clear from the later part of your statement that you get the distinction between Blood Claws and BA assault marines in development terms. Blood Claws would be recent neophytes 'looking to prove themselves' where as BA assault troops are already past that stage (from time with the scouts). Oddly it seems to work backwards a little too, in that more senior Blood angels are apparently keen to drop back down the chain if you like so they can put jump packs back on again!

 

Hope I wasn't being rude.

 

Kind regards,

GotR

[Requiem of the Wolf]

That would be correct, though it is not entirely clear from the later part of your statement that you get the distinction between Blood Claws and BA assault marines in development terms. Blood Claws would be recent neophytes 'looking to prove themselves' where as BA assault troops are already past that stage (from time with the scouts). Oddly it seems to work backwards a little too, in that more senior Blood angels are apparently keen to drop back down the chain if you like so they can put jump packs back on again!

 

Hope I wasn't being rude.

 

Kind regards,

GotR

Not rude at all not to worry. Yes I get the difference between the two. As this is going to be the..6th or so short story in the life of my Blood Claws they aren't really neophytes at this point. Developmentally several of the pack are ready to transition to Grey Hunters,But I am not rushing that aspect. Part of the reason why is because I had the image of this story brewing in the background and wanted it to happen before they 'graduated' for lack of a better term. With the description of when BA generally end up in Jump pack squads, It wouldn't be difficult to portray them as close to the same level of experience,though obviously the BA's are going to be much better with their Jump packs since this will be the first time strapping them on for my guys.But the image I had was a close to fresh out of the scouts unit of Blood Angel Jump pack troops,working on the same objective as my Blood Claws,and the inevitable friendly rivalry and trying to outdo the other group popping up.

 

So next question becomes : say 10 scouts graduate to full Astartes,do they all stick together and join one squad,possibly with a Sgt that has been around for a while to keep them in line or would it be more likely for them to be spread out and say,each assault squad getting a fresh man?

[JamesI]

So next question becomes : say 10 scouts graduate to full Astartes,do they all stick together and join one squad,possibly with a Sgt that has been around for a while to keep them in line or would it be more likely for them to be spread out and say,each assault squad getting a fresh man?

I think that would depend on where there were openings to fill. Generally the scout sergeants stay scout sergeants, the rest could be assigned together to an assault squad or separated as needed.

[aeren]

From reading the fluff in the assaut squad entry, it seems to be a trickle up method...say one ten man assault squad sees action, and two marines die, the squad would operate under strength until they could get a replacement (i.e. a neophyte who was proven himself and is elevated to a battle/assault company). Then in another circumstance, an assault marine proves he is able to curb his desire to just jet off into the wild blue and rip stuff up, and is elevated to a tactical squad, who have an opening due to a death of their own in that last campaign.

 

I don't think there would ever be a completely new assault squad formed, unless if one was completely destroyed. Even then, I doubt it would happen like that simply due to the astartes recruitment and training process. The odds of getting ten neophytes through their brutal indoctrination, with everyone grasping each concept of combat at the same time are pretty slim I think.

[Requiem of the Wolf]

From reading the fluff in the assaut squad entry, it seems to be a trickle up method...say one ten man assault squad sees action, and two marines die, the squad would operate under strength until they could get a replacement (i.e. a neophyte who was proven himself and is elevated to a battle/assault company). Then in another circumstance, an assault marine proves he is able to curb his desire to just jet off into the wild blue and rip stuff up, and is elevated to a tactical squad, who have an opening due to a death of their own in that last campaign.

 

I don't think there would ever be a completely new assault squad formed, unless if one was completely destroyed. Even then, I doubt it would happen like that simply due to the astartes recruitment and training process. The odds of getting ten neophytes through their brutal indoctrination, with everyone grasping each concept of combat at the same time are pretty slim I think.

So It would be unlikely for most of a squad to be new assault troops huh? hmmm...Ok...but it isn't outside the realm of likelihood that there would be a couple relatively new guys in a Assault squad...I think I could work with that Idea. thanks everyone.

[Brother Nathan]

well a battle cannon could have hit the squad so the majority of it needs replacing, and the sargent may oly have been promoted to sargent from the first co(well depending if the vets come from first co of from tactical to sarge then first co). Also rember whrn angels graduate from assault squad we go to devestator generally, then tactical. but there are exceptions. I actually think wolves and angels are more alike than any of the other chapters seem to be. especially considering how diferent we appear to be, which is quite a good way to look at it if you are writing fluff. on first glance we appear total oppisites, but wen it comes to fighting etc we are proper battle brothers.

Ahh just as well as im doing a doubles tourney next month alonside some wolves, i pitys da fool thats oppisite that... :tu:

[Requiem of the Wolf]

well a battle cannon could have hit the squad so the majority of it needs replacing, and the sargent may oly have been promoted to sargent from the first co(well depending if the vets come from first co of from tactical to sarge then first co). Also rember whrn angels graduate from assault squad we go to devestator generally, then tactical. but there are exceptions. I actually think wolves and angels are more alike than any of the other chapters seem to be. especially considering how diferent we appear to be, which is quite a good way to look at it if you are writing fluff. on first glance we appear total oppisites, but wen it comes to fighting etc we are proper battle brothers.

Ahh just as well as im doing a doubles tourney next month alonside some wolves, i pitys da fool thats oppisite that... ;)

Its more like stories involving the Wolf Guard and IC's that are in my army,during the time they were Blood claws. And yes,after doing some research about it and talking with alot of Angel players I came to close to the same realization lol. That was more then anything else the final decision for me writing this chapter.

Now the next question...and probably the final one I promise lol. How likely would a couple fresh Blood Angels be to hook up with a Space Wolves Pack in order to accomplish an objective that both had been tasked with? Now I want to say they would,because no matter the Rivalry between Chapters,I feel the idea that the mission would come first. But that opens up some questions about different fighting Doctrines,Chain of Command,that sort of thing. I know how Wolves would resolve something like that...Especially since the squad is being led by a Wolf Guard..equivalent of a Sanguinary guard in terms of experience,authority, general badassness. What i am wondering is how would Blood Angels react to say...having a SG equivalent knock them on their arse the first time they questioned his orders after having agreed to work with him?

 

I allready see the BA's reacting with suprise and despair at the poor control over the jump packs the Claws have and basically going "No stop doing that ya idiot...your gonna get yourself or worse me killed." and then giving them a quick course on tips to use the Jump packs. But I figured I should get as much info as I could to help make sure any Angels that wander in and read it don't get upset.

[BERZERKER!]

I'd say that it would be more than possible. Whilst every chapter has some level of rivalry with every other, there isn't a real issue between the BA and SW, as there is with certain other angelic chapters.

 

Just a question on the blood claws.. i thought that once wolves formed a pack they stuck together throughout their time as Space Marines?

[Brother Nathan]

i dont imagine ba would give off as thats takes time but instead fix it so they can get back to their objective quickly. see ba have a habit of ignoring orders when they get in the way of winning. and they take direct routes and if an aly gets in the way stupidly and slows them down, they will go throgh or over as theknow every second counts. Id also inagine them to just stare at the wolves when they say fly into things. and maby laugh, then pick them up and be on their way. But the angels would be hesitant to work with wolves, just like anyone else as they dont want the wolves to know about the flaw, just like how the wolves dont want anyone to know about the woulfen/ helix thing. then again if they knew about each others flaw they could get on better, or the wolves could attack us as they did the sons for their flaw. thouh i think they would see sense.

before the heray wolves were the smallest chapter, angels were the next smallest. both cc excellers. both utterly loyal, have their flaws, yet are stronger for them, and both care for the survival of humainity. Just a pity theres so few wolves now (we have many succesors and are spread over the galaxy) I cold imagine the younger ones in the squads debating such stuff on the move, and both gaining a liking for the others. as far as i see you have chosen the best two chapters for your fluff so be sure to link us your fluff when youve done it.

Also the pack leader, they have one? he could make some statement of his age as being so old that the ba (who look relatively young) are mere babys next to him, at which point the sargent can remove his helm and shows his rows of service studs along his brow and say is that so, and smile... well thats how i imagine theyd get along....

[Blindhamster]

sounds like a cool story to me!

 

this

Also the pack leader, they have one? he could make some statement of his age as being so old that the ba (who look relatively young) are mere babys next to him, at which point the sargent can remove his helm and shows his rows of service studs along his brow and say is that so, and smile... well thats how i imagine theyd get along....

 

is a good idea!

 

Personally I think they'd work in unison, I don't imagine they space wolves would listen to the BAs (too headstrong) and I doubt the BAs would follow the wolf guard unless their sergeant is dead.

 

couple of things on skill, experience etc.

 

specially since the squad is being led by a Wolf Guard..equivalent of a Sanguinary guard in terms of experience,authority, general badassness.

 

To me the above statement isn't right, a Wolf Guard is more like a veteran marine (be it terminator, sternguard or Vanguard) in terms of equivilant, they are also admittedly similar to honour guard, often serving the same role. However the Wolf Guard are not all that rare and are at times not even that experienced, just lucky or skilled (ragnar blackmane ftw) The Sanguinary guard seem to be a thing unto themselves, not really having an equivilant in most other marine armies, due to their ancient role they'd be like the praetorians of the Imperial fists or the Mournvil (spelling?) to Horus back when he was alive. But anyway back on point, i'd still say a Wolf Guard would equal a Sergeant anyway, ultimately it depends on the trait of Sanguinius you choose to go with, they are often described as being prideful, while almost as often described as being humble, personally I like the idea mentioned above of the Blood Angel sergeant being much older, but actually 'allowing' the wolfguard to call the shots anyway, might actually be quite nice, and also allows your fluff a bit more room to show cool factor of the wolves :tu:

 

on the skill level of the Blood Claws.... they are equal to marine scouts.

Grey Hunters are equal to tacticals, devastators and assault marines, though the grey hunters are better equipped in the game, in the fluff a tactical marine often has a gladius or even a chainsword.

Wolf Scouts, longfangs and wolfguard are all more like marine veterans in age and experience. Wolfguard get more options in gear as the space wolves seem to be a bit more free in letting their own choose what to fight with.

 

 

p.s. Coolest thing about space wolves..... Blood Claws that steal a thunderhawk without getting caught and without crashing it, coming back with a story.... get a pat on the back and a respect (probably beer and food too!) where any other marine chapter would likely give them a flogging or similar....

[Requiem of the Wolf]

Well I was making the comparison for the amount of respect they garner. As every Blood Angel would strive to be a Sanguinary Guard,so to does every Space Wolf strive to be a Wolf Guard.

 

As for the story itself,Yes they would still have their Wolf Guard Pack Leader,And yeah he is actually that old lol. The rest of his pack have gone on to become Long Fangs so well over 100 years. As for the Pack staying together,generally that is how it works. However there are certain times where Wolves will show an aptitude for certain things that disrupt the chain. Two of the Pack are destined for the Scouts,which would be equivalent to veterans in the Blood Angels.Another is going to be training as a Rune Priest during this story so he wont be showing up. The others are going to end up as Wolf Guard eventually,and that is part of what these stories are for. To show off their progression from almost newbies to well respected and skilled warriors,While its also the explanation for why the Wolf Guard that is leading the pack became the Wolf Guard Battle Leader.

 

As for the part about giving advice on the Jump pack usage...I was thinking that the terrain of the planet itself was what restricted them to jump pack units. So as they are traveling to their destination,we have the Blood Angels,probably 3-4 of them,the remnants of a Squad, Gliding through the air making it look easy.Bouncing from outcropping to outcropping with practiced skill and barely any noise over the whine of the jump packs themselves. Then we have the majority of the Blood Claws (One of them is just Naturally quiet,and another is the type to study on anything he could get his hands on and practice with) who would be not quite crashing into things but definitely not having an easy time of it. I figured that the offers of a few pointers for easier flight would be part of the two squads trying to bridge the rivalry and work together.

 

Anyways,if anyone wants to read it,its in the Space Wolves forum,under the heading Chronicles of the Claws. It will likely be a couple days before I get this new chapter in but all are welcome to come and take a look if they want.

[Whitefireinferno]

I like the Idea even though I really can't see the BA marines taking orders from the Wolves I can see them working togeather but Not ordering each other around also whats the wolf progression like something like BCs>???>Greys>Longfangs>Ect where abouts does the Skyclaws and Swiftclaws come into everything? the Ideas of BCs being trained to use JPs just conjurs funny images in my head.

 

--WFI--

[Requiem of the Wolf]

I like the Idea even though I really can't see the BA marines taking orders from the Wolves I can see them working togeather but Not ordering each other around also whats the wolf progression like something like BCs>???>Greys>Longfangs>Ect where abouts does the Skyclaws and Swiftclaws come into everything? the Ideas of BCs being trained to use JPs just conjurs funny images in my head.

 

--WFI--

Well..In general...we stuff the Troublemakers from the Blood Claws into the Sky Claws. They end up with the most headstrong and psychotic of the Blood Claws. (Scary thought I know) Swift Claws are harder to get into,and they are generally experienced Blood Claws. As for the Progression,It goes Blood Claws to Grey Hunters to one of three choices generally,either Scouts if their temperment is suited for it,Long Fangs after they have been kicking arse and taking names for around a century or Wolf Guard if they pull off something truely exceptional and come to the notice of the Wold Lord. A Wolf Guard can come from any pack of Space Wolves,from the youngest to the eldest,Its awarded purely on merit and a small amount on attitude. Now the last option,and its the rarest by far,is that of the Lone Wolf. Basically what happens there is a pack is wiped out,and its survivor hasn't earned his way into the Wolf Guard. At this point,he becomes a Lone Wolf. It is hard to understand what makes a Lone Wolf if you don't realize just how important pack is to the Space Wolves. If you are at all familiar with the Warhammer Fantasy lore,It would pretty much be a Trollslayer. They Vow to either hunt down and kill the thing that wiped out their pack(most often) or in the rare cases that isn't possible because the thing is allready dead,they vow to go out and kill the biggest nastiest things they can find by themselves. And to keep doing it till they are dead,Or they are successful. Once a Wolf takes this path,no one in the Space Wolves will stand between him and fulfilling his oath. Most times,Lone Wolves die trying. On the rare occasions that they succeed,they carry the head of their prey and dump it at the feet of the Wolf Lord. By Tradition, they are then welcomed into the Wolf Guard,thus giving them a place within pack life and helping them to deal with the Crazy. Is also why they go from being a unstoppable Psychotic killing machine,to being a normal Wolf guard...they aren't insane anymore.

[Demoulius]

i dont imagine ba would give off as thats takes time but instead fix it so they can get back to their objective quickly. see ba have a habit of ignoring orders when they get in the way of winning. and they take direct routes and if an aly gets in the way stupidly and slows them down, they will go throgh or over as theknow every second counts. Id also inagine them to just stare at the wolves when they say fly into things. and maby laugh, then pick them up and be on their way. But the angels would be hesitant to work with wolves, just like anyone else as they dont want the wolves to know about the flaw, just like how the wolves dont want anyone to know about the woulfen/ helix thing. then again if they knew about each others flaw they could get on better, or the wolves could attack us as they did the sons for their flaw. thouh i think they would see sense.

before the heray wolves were the smallest chapter, angels were the next smallest. both cc excellers. both utterly loyal, have their flaws, yet are stronger for them, and both care for the survival of humainity. Just a pity theres so few wolves now (we have many succesors and are spread over the galaxy) I cold imagine the younger ones in the squads debating such stuff on the move, and both gaining a liking for the others. as far as i see you have chosen the best two chapters for your fluff so be sure to link us your fluff when youve done it.

Also the pack leader, they have one? he could make some statement of his age as being so old that the ba (who look relatively young) are mere babys next to him, at which point the sargent can remove his helm and shows his rows of service studs along his brow and say is that so, and smile... well thats how i imagine theyd get along....

first brother please use some punctuation, really hard to read....second where did you get your fluff from? only BA's i know of that make a habbit of ignoring orders and beeing reckless are the flesh tearers :P also doubt BA's are always in a hurry and get slowed down by their allies much....

 

that aside i like the idea Requiem of the Wolf ;) AFAIK marines also dont "command" squads from other chapters. they work together and work up a chain of command together. sometimes the squad leaders just communicate through a closed vox channel to co-coordinate an attack. for example the blood angels sneak in (because apparently blood claws are reckless, dident know that :yes: so wouldnt be wise to send those in) a base and knock out alarms and sentries. then when its all disabled the blood claws can jump in and do whatever messy bussines that they please without having to wotty about alarms ^_^

[Requiem of the Wolf]

first brother please use some punctuation, really hard to read....second where did you get your fluff from? only BA's i know of that make a habbit of ignoring orders and beeing reckless are the flesh tearers :huh: also doubt BA's are always in a hurry and get slowed down by their allies much....

 

that aside i like the idea Requiem of the Wolf :) AFAIK marines also dont "command" squads from other chapters. they work together and work up a chain of command together. sometimes the squad leaders just communicate through a closed vox channel to co-coordinate an attack. for example the blood angels sneak in (because apparently blood claws are reckless, dident know that :huh: so wouldnt be wise to send those in) a base and knock out alarms and sentries. then when its all disabled the blood claws can jump in and do whatever messy bussines that they please without having to wotty about alarms ^_^

Well the Idea about the command part came from both squads being sent to do the same thing essentially,but without the best communication at the start. Then the BA squad suffers some severe losses,to the point where they aren't at high enough strength to accomplish the mission,and along come the Blood Claws after the same target and so they work together from that point till its done. And yeah,for the most part Blood Claws tend to be very reckless and...over-enthusiastic. Now by this point,most of that has been knocked out of the Pack,but it is still there to some extent. But yeah the Idea of having the Angels zip in and disable the defenses,with the more numerous Blood Claws jumping in right after and making a mess of things. As far as the Rivalry thing goes,I was hoping to have it end up in a similar manner to Gimli and Legolas in the latest LOTR movies. That kind of friendly back and forth is what I was hoping to end up with.

 

The concerns about the command part was why I was trying to find out how much experience relatively that jump pack troops would have. I mean,someone fresh out of the scouts would likely have situations where having guidance from a more experienced individual would be useful,but if they were all veterans then they could be relied on to finish the mission without guidance,and that would change the dynamic of what I was writing.

[Brother Nathan]

Sorry demo for my grammer. Even though i went to a grammer school ijust found that i could never really care about it. Screws me up when i want to write fluff like but hey, thats life ( im more a sciency maths ejit)

As for the people getting in the way etc thing, i believe it was the old fluff, and yes it applied more to the flesh tearers but all the angels chapters had hints of it where people dissapeared etc and the inquisition looked at us but found nothing. I personally supect the alpha legion are following us and trying to give us a bad name....

As for the working together the BA could ox their commanding officer and could be told to assist the wolves as the target was too important to be abandoned. Say they lost their melta weapons and had to destroy a bastion or some such. That would solve most issues i would think. And i know its not in our current fluff but we had vetran scouts as some vets would want to get in sneekyly and get to killing as soon as possible. they had the motto ' be bold, bloody and resolute!' as i havent seen it in the current dex i suppose it could be reasigned to the assault squads.

[Demoulius]

Sorry demo for my grammer. Even though i went to a grammer school ijust found that i could never really care about it. Screws me up when i want to write fluff like but hey, thats life ( im more a sciency maths ejit)

 

no worries m8, everyone is in that mood sometimes ^_^ yea notw that you mention it i also renember something along those lines...bodies disapearing found back drained of blood and the like and people suspecting the angels. but then again those things happen with chaos cults to IIRC so uh <_< it doesent mean much. and yes, our veterans also went back to the scout company from time to time, but i think they removed that part because the wolves also have this....

 

i understood where you were going with the story brother Requiem of the Wolf :)

 

well as has been mentioned blood angel scouts go to the assault squads, then devastators etc. it ahas also been mentioned that in some old fluff veterans would return to assault squads because they loved close quarters fighting so much. every company has this to some degree but even more so for the blood angels, who also excell in its usage. a thing thats partially to blame by the iniation rites where they have to make a DIY kite and glide over the radioactive desert winds B)

[Brother Nathan]

Where is that as ive never seen it before? And yup on th jumpes as the dex explains that even though we have as many regular assault marines as smurfs, but when a death etc happens in an assault squad, a tactical or dev etc will haply go take up the position until a new recruit is promoted. so you coud have a mix of ages in the blood angel squad if you wish. Also i dont know that even with only a few brothers that the bloood angels could be sneeeky as, well noisey jump packs and brightred armour and bright yellow trimmings as well as the boom guns and explosives and roaring of chainswords etc..... yea sneeky aint their thing ^_^ (counts for wolves too) they hit hard and fast where the enemy dosent expect it and that normally marines cant reach, well with ease...

[Requiem of the Wolf]

Sorry demo for my grammer. Even though i went to a grammer school ijust found that i could never really care about it. Screws me up when i want to write fluff like but hey, thats life ( im more a sciency maths ejit)

 

no worries m8, everyone is in that mood sometimes ^_^ yea notw that you mention it i also renember something along those lines...bodies disapearing found back drained of blood and the like and people suspecting the angels. but then again those things happen with chaos cults to IIRC so uh <_< it doesent mean much. and yes, our veterans also went back to the scout company from time to time, but i think they removed that part because the wolves also have this....

 

i understood where you were going with the story brother Requiem of the Wolf :)

 

well as has been mentioned blood angel scouts go to the assault squads, then devastators etc. it ahas also been mentioned that in some old fluff veterans would return to assault squads because they loved close quarters fighting so much. every company has this to some degree but even more so for the blood angels, who also excell in its usage. a thing thats partially to blame by the iniation rites where they have to make a DIY kite and glide over the radioactive desert winds B)

Seriously? that is actually kind of cool in concept. I mean...it doesn't hold a candle to footslogging a hundred miles with nothing but the body hair from the canis helix to keep you warm across the nastiest mountain range on a death planet...But still thats pretty cool *grins* And further proof of the similarities between the Blood Angels and the Space Wolves. We both put our initiates through hell as a general rule lol.

 

As for the sneaky,I was thinking more about a suprise assault from an unexpected direction,going after maybe turret defenses while the Blood claws charged the center. Some way to showcase the better flight ability of the blood angels while still showing that both sides are right nasty in a fight.