Heavy Flamer/AssCanon

[pueriexdeus]

Am in the process of working on a DW vs. Orks list for Apoc.

 

Ive quite a few extra Heavy Flamers lying around an am wondering if they would be better than the Asscanon?

 

Conventional wisdom says the Flamer will probably remove more figures than the Asscanon, but you'll then be out of charge range.

 

Anybody have a valid answer on this?

[Koremu]

Flamer will kill more Orks, Assault Cannon will pop more Trukks. You pays your points and you takes your choice.

[Chengar Qordath]

In addition to the issue of versatility/focus Koremu brings up, it also probably bears mentioning that using a Heavy Flamer means getting into charge range of Orks if they survive your shooting. Even in Terminator armor, being charged by Orks is bad.

[Tanhausen]

Hi Brothers B)

 

An AC (for 30 points), will give you 4 S6 shots at 60 cm... same range as the SB. Basically, you shoot and walk away, avoiding CC. Remember though that trucks are open topped, so they can move 30 cm, then disembark and assault... you better be careful running around!

 

A HF (for 5 points), will usually give you 3-5 S5 hits at some 20 cm... which means you better be thinking of assaulting or that you are camping next to an objective and you will force the ork to go at Ini 1.

 

This said, I'd specialize xD

 

Assault units with HF (even if its only 1 template in all the game, for 5 point you can take out easily 25 or 30 points of orks... I'd say its worth it!).

 

If you want to play hide and seek, the problem is not AC vs HF... its the termies! 215 points + special weapon makes for a VERY expensive shooting platform. I'd consider going Greenwing if you want to avoid CC.

 

Also, remember that AP 4 or AP 5 vs orks... they probably won't be getting saves with either.

 

If you want a mobile transport-hunting unit, why not try some plasma assault marines?

 

Hope it helps :)

[Chengar Qordath]

Continuing on what Tanhausen said, I would have to agree that the choice between AC and HF really depends on what role you want the unit to be in. AC is a great choice for shooting terminators, while HF is much better suited to an assault-focused squad.

 

It does bear mentioning that even Shooting Terminators do not fear close combat; a 2+/5++ with a Power Fist is pretty dangerous in close combat. While they cannot hold up against most dedicated elite assault units, DW shooting Terminators can still easily shred something like a Tactical squad in an assault, especially since their shooting can thin the ranks a bit beforehand.

[Tanhausen]

Don't want to stray from the topic but...

 

DW squad with AC: 245 points

 

10 marines with ML and Meltagun: 200? (not sure). You can throw a fist in just in case for a similar unit cost.

 

Scenario A: DW shoots 4 SB ( 8 S4 shots) and 1 AC ( 4 S6) , which will kill 2+1.6 orks at 60 cm: 3.6 wounds

 

Scenario B: Troops shoots 8 bolter (8 S4 shots), 1 ML ( 1 S8) and 1 MG ( 2 S7), which will kill 2+1+1 orks at 60+cm: 4 wounds

 

If you use template, that would be a bigger difference.

 

If you plan on camping, I'd go for Troops.

 

Only 1 exception: fluff and all termi list :huh: (which I play myself xDDD)

 

Personally, with no model or fluff restriction, if I know i'm playing orks, I'd spam Heavy Bolters for the foot orks and S7-8 for the transports.

 

I'd say auto cannon/HB predators are your best friends, extremely versatile and the perfect tool for the task.

 

If you have thick AV, chainfists and there is no tomorrow xDDD

[Giga]

My advice to you is not to use tactical terminators. :huh:

 

Get th/ss terminators, at least they can kill those nobz. Or even better, don't take the terminators at all and get anti-infantry/mech stuff like mm/hf speeders, typhoon speeders, whirlwinds, dakkapreds, etc. that can kill orks a lot better, anyway.

[Tanhausen]

My advice to you is not to use tactical terminators. :huh:

 

Get th/ss terminators, at least they can kill those nobz. Or even better, don't take the terminators at all and get anti-infantry/mech stuff like mm/hf speeders, typhoon speeders, whirlwinds, dakkapreds, etc. that can kill orks a lot better, anyway.

 

:huh:

 

What kind of advice is that for a DW army?

 

From my experience, you don't need TH to kill nobs: Claws work PERFECTLY, with Ini 4 and re-roll to wound. Remember DA SS are only 4+ and in CC... not the best way to go ^_^

 

An important issue: how many points is the game?

 

Because if its 3.000, you can pretty much use a "conventional" list. If its more like 5.000... you've got A LOT of manouvering margin to just pile in a billion termis... (drool xDD)

[Giga]

What kind of advice is that for a DW army?

Lol, I didn't notice that. Forgive me, I'm at work now and sleepy. :P

[pueriexdeus]

Tanhausen@ I'm bringing 20,000 points my partner another 15,000. The total for both side up around 70,000 points.

 

Ina nut shell my list is;

 

Belial w/Command Sqd

7 Libbies, 4 Chappies

15 DW Tac Sqds, PW, CF, 11 AsCan, 4 HF. Have 5 more HF I can put in exchange for AsCans.

9 DW Aslt Sqds, 7 LC's, 2 TH/SS

5 DW AT, PW, CF, CML

162 TDA

 

Sammi LS/w Cmd Sqd

2 Attack Sqd/AB, MM/LS, Tornado

3 LS Tornados

2 S Typhoons

 

4 LRC's

2 Godhammers

1 Prometheus

1 Damocles

 

22 Ven Dreads/ 12 LPDP's

5 AsCan, DCCW

4 PC, DCCW

4 MM, DCCW

4 TLLC, ML

3 Mortis 2 TLAC, TLHB

Ironclad

Technought

 

Inquisitor w/2 Vindicare Assassins

 

Reaver Titan

 

Its is set in stone, but I might be removing or altering some things to bring the points down to 18000.

[Race Bannon]

20,000 points worth of Dark Angels?! This issue is almost moot! You can do whatever you want!!

 

:)

[Tanhausen]

....er....

 

.... 20.000 points you say ....

 

.... hmmm ...

 

*** thinking of something to say ***

 

I'm afraid the 1st company for DA only has 100 terminators... is it renting or leasing that you do the other? xDDDDD

 

22 Dreadnought... do we really have that many heroes? xDDDD

 

HF vs AC? I guess it boils down to how CC you are feeling like!

 

BTW, I DEMAND a picture of 20.000 points worth of DA. No excuses accepted :P

[pueriexdeus]

....er....

 

.... 20.000 points you say ....

 

.... hmmm ...

 

*** thinking of something to say ***

 

I'm afraid the 1st company for DA only has 100 terminators... is it renting or leasing that you do the other? xDDDDD

 

22 Dreadnought... do we really have that many heroes? xDDDD

 

HF vs AC? I guess it boils down to how CC you are feeling like!

 

BTW, I DEMAND a picture of 20.000 points worth of DA. No excuses accepted :ph34r:

 

Oh yes pictures will be coming.

 

162 TDA, it's my personal DIY Fluff, something to do with securing an ancient space hulk thingy.

 

As far as the dreads, I really like large Apoc games. Here is a link to my 6000 point starter DW/RW army. After that game I was hooked, and just needed more.

 

As far as CC I plan on the DWA with Dreads in DPA support. Plan of action is to scout the bikes, drop 6 dreads in their face with 12 TDA Squads. The Dreads should be able to tarpit the Orks and next turn charge with the TDA. But if the Orks bring a Disruption beacon it'll get my attention on turn 1. My most imposing issue is denying the Orks the charge.

[Tanhausen]

Dreads dropping in turn 1? I guess you play by C:SM

 

VERY nice work on the bearer :rolleyes:

[Justicar Valius]

He's using the IA2 lucius pattern dreadnought drop pod. C:SM rules for a pod but 50 points. Oh and did i mention it's an assault vehicle? yeh...

[Tanhausen]

What is a lucius pattern pod? Where can I find more about it?

[Frosty the Pyro]

Well if you are playing DA then the question of flammer or AC depends entirely one one thing, how are you kiting out the rest of the squad. 4 lightning claws pairs/hammer sheild sets and a heavy flamer termy will make for one of the best assault terminator squads available (even with out the 3++ sheilds), if the rest of your termies are rocking storm bolters then go AC.

[pueriexdeus]

Well if you are playing DA then the question of flammer or AC depends entirely one one thing, how are you kiting out the rest of the squad. 4 lightning claws pairs/hammer sheild sets and a heavy flamer termy will make for one of the best assault terminator squads available (even with out the 3++ sheilds), if the rest of your termies are rocking storm bolters then go AC.

So your recommendation is to leave the SB/PF Squads with an AssCannon, and Add the HF/PF to my CC Squads. Yep I've enough to do that. Right now 5 of my 9 CC Squads are mounted in LR's. 3 LRC's, 2 Godhammers.

[Frosty the Pyro]

Well if you are playing DA then the question of flammer or AC depends entirely one one thing, how are you kiting out the rest of the squad. 4 lightning claws pairs/hammer sheild sets and a heavy flamer termy will make for one of the best assault terminator squads available (even with out the 3++ sheilds), if the rest of your termies are rocking storm bolters then go AC.

So your recommendation is to leave the SB/PF Squads with an AssCannon, and Add the HF/PF to my CC Squads. Yep I've enough to do that. Right now 5 of my 9 CC Squads are mounted in LR's. 3 LRC's, 2 Godhammers.

 

Indeed, the ability to mix tactical and assault terminators is very potent, and shared only by the wolfs who pay more for it. A heavy flamer is best right in the thick of it were the assault termies want to be. Hop out, burn something, and cut whats left to ribons in assault, and targets for assault terminators tend to be hard enouph that you rarely have to worry about the flamer making them break and takeing them out of assault range. Asscannons like a little more breathing room, perfect for tacticals.

[Tanhausen]

How come Frosty posts and you take him in consideration... and when I do, no comment made? Is he blond, 1,80 and has a NICE pair of reasons? :blush:

 

Now seriously, when are you having that game? I'd love to see some pics!

 

Also, the mention someone said of Lucius pod... can you point me where to find more info?

[Justicar Valius]

Forge world download section before they changed the site.

[Frosty the Pyro]

How come Frosty posts and you take him in consideration... and when I do, no comment made? Is he blond, 1,80 and has a NICE pair of reasons? :D

It's cus I am a heavily armed snowman, you would be suprised at how much that lets me get away with.

 

 

 

On topic, If you have a few extra points to burn, mixing a few chainfist will make the units increadably dangerous to vehicles (though there arnt a lot of orky things with strong back armor). Again the DA ability to mix assault and tactical means you can have chainfists along with the hammers/claws (and HF) and it will be a major threat to any and all posible targets short of a monolith. Though as this is an apoc game, you may even want to have a pure chainfist squad to hunt stompas and other superheavy walkers.

 

I will admit a small bias though, I love the asthetics of chainfists so that may color my opinion some.

[Tanhausen]

Tank shock goes by front AV, right? +1 to Chain Fists! For 5 points, they are probably the least considered option and its SO useful :huh: