Counts as Blood Angels

[Looted Monolith]

As with any new codex Jealously and Fear erupt from all who did not plan to use such a codex

 

At my store we, The Blood Angel Players were able to quell the endless rants and frustration from other space marine players by integrating their chapter into our rules set.

 

Night Lords(die hard player to start with)

We proxyed his Deamon Prince with Mefiston

And then he was able to field his 50+Raptors as HG w/Jump Packs, VGV's W/jump packs, or as regular Jump infantry

 

This would work exceptionally for Raven Gaurd as well

 

Both army's make as much use or more out of the decent of angles rule

 

Another Chaos Player who ran Word Bearers

ran Death Company as standard troops and with the abundance of chaplains(oppose Dark Apostles) it was pretty interesting

 

Iron hands could take all the dreads they want with our list

 

We were inspired by a World Eaters army who used space wolves rules

Khârn as ragnar blackmane

Beyond that iam not sure what else

 

How dose the rest of the Blood Angels Community think of this, it is a slight alternative to there just being 9 new BA's Players right

[mysteriousmaskedmystery]

i don't like using a different codex when there is a codex that tells you it is intended to cover your chapter. unless it's something like the Ork Imperial Guard that guy did, where you put effort into converting the entire army, then i'm generally against it.

[kollar]

How dose the rest of the Blood Angels Community think of this, it is a slight alternative to there just being 9 new BA's Players right

 

I think it's utterly attrocious.

[Isryion]

I've got no problems with it.

[glayvin34]

That sounds really fun. I like it when rules are separated from the standard fluff and applied to different fluff.

 

Does Mephy have Daemon Prince stats? Then field him as a Daemon Prince, the rules within the BA codex are still balanced (supposedly).

 

I love when Goatboy over at Bell of Lost Souls makes his Goat Armies, the Space Goats when the Space Wolves came out and the Goat Angels when Blood Angels came out. He fields Sanguinor as the Goat Pope. Awesome.

[Brother Nathan]

depending on the army i have no problems with it generally. there was a topic on this in here already somewhere. i hvae no problems with nightlords as they have been badly shafted in their current dex. however they should not touch certain units, such as baals and the special dreads and storm sheilds and such as chaos dont get that technology anymore. i would be hesitant to allow them to take priests as theres no fluff for that, its just for power play. iron hands... maby, but they are better in the smurf dex with their thunder fires and ven dreads and forge dudes. khorn have their own units in the chaos dex so they dont need the wolves dex, they have no need to do so, a unit with mok =grey hunters so why bother? but i do not mind jumpy armys using it like raven guard, they should bear in mind that they should not touch the baal as it is ba and sucessor only. you can explain most else but not that.

[Aarkon]

My friend was looking to start a new type of Space Marine army I tried to talk him into using the Blood Angel codex for Iron Hands as you mentioned. I mean 11 or 12 dreads running around would be fun.

 

He is however going to do pre-heresy World Eaters as Blood Angels.

[Gridlocked]

There is being awesome and funny; and then there is jumping on the flavour of the month but being too cheep/lazy to even attempt to actaully collect it.

 

I admit that the new codex and shiny SangGuard models swayed me from starting Salamanders to preparing to buy up on BA but atleast I am not putting Sallies onto the table and going "Yeah him, hes Mephiston." I am buying a Mephiston model, painting it and going "That is a Mephiston model, therefore he is Mephiston"

 

Granted Night Lords are actally quite feasable with the BA Codex provided they stay away from Death Company, Landraiders, Dreads and SangPriests; and have some nice models to convince me that "Yeah those really nicely painted and modeled raptors are SangGuard"

[Burningblood]

Honestly it sounds like you've just got a bunch of BA players now. I'm not utterly opposed to Counts As, as sometimes I use my templars for Death company, but its not like I use every Templar model as the basis for my army and say "This isn't actually the emperor's champion. Its really Mephiston!" There are some people that have made really cool armies that are litteraly chaos fallen Blood Angels, but I don't think that just any chaos player should drop their dex and pick up ours. Seems really cheap to me. Powergaming.

I think they should just wait for their 5th ed codex and stop whining.

And we know their codex will be great. They're just basically cheating themselves as players by doing this.

-Stepping off the soap box

That Ork Imperial Guard army sounds awesome!

[Morticon]

How dose the rest of the Blood Angels Community think of this, it is a slight alternative to there just being 9 new BA's Players right

 

I think it's utterly attrocious.

 

Kollar - BnC works like this, mate;

 

We offer constructive advice on 40k related issues.

 

You gotta comment like that, then back your opinion up and then offer constructive advice on what he can do- or i'll just consider it trolling and give you a warning.

 

edit: member since '07 ><; ?! Dude- youre not a newbie. Give the man some feedback!

[JamesI]

Personally, I wouldn't like it if every opponent I faced used the same codex. But, I have no problem with players using another codex (it just gets boring facing the same dex every time).

 

Its better if each player has a different style to it, I see several BA armies at my store, but thankfully they are pretty different.

[kollar]

How dose the rest of the Blood Angels Community think of this, it is a slight alternative to there just being 9 new BA's Players right

 

I think it's utterly attrocious.

 

edit: member since '07 ><; ?! Dude- youre not a newbie. Give the man some feedback!

 

Yes, long time player, not a frequent poster.

 

I'm sorry. It was never my intention to troll, I just find that I would be repeating my arguments from 3 other threads concerning "counts as"-hysteria. In my view I see people using a rule intended to allow for cool and unconventional as well creatively converted armies, as a chance to constantly switch to the "newest codex", and thus are simply there to win. To me, that promotes a standard of abuse in armies and games that I severly dislike. I see tons of people going "but Night Lords need BA for a fluffy codex!" (insert other codices as you like). Yes, that may be true. But I doubt they used the PDF BA codex which would have allowed them to play the exact same army until now. On top of this, I absolutely -hate- having to constantly check what all my opponents troops are.

 

Player 1: "Oh so that Black Templar Crusader Squad is really a Death Company? And that other BT Crusader Squad?"

Player 2: "That's just a normal Assault Squad, but oh, they have Jump Packs!"

Player 1: "But the models don't have jump packs..."

Player 2: "No, but they are running and jumping at exceptional speed thanks to their devotion in the Emperor and Dorn!"

Player 1: "That's not really very fluffy..."

Player 2: "Shut up! Counts as!"

Player 1: "..."

 

*Player 1 may have similarities in mindset to me...

 

While the above is extremely exaggerated, it would completely and utterly suck all the fun out of the game for me. This is not like how a certain Ork player had actually painstaikingly built a "Deffwing" Army, composed of heavily converted Ork models, all with "captured" Imperial equipment, and loaded in modified and looted landraiders. It was clear that this was a Deathwing army, it was humorously built, exceptionally well painted and converted. That is what "counts as" should be used as. Not to constantly bandwagon the latest army list. Such behaviour is, to me, attrocious. Thus, my short sentiment. I didn't mean to offend anyone, I simply thought it was a silly idea. Counts as should not be used to find a way to shoehorn the latest rules on to your models, but rather to find a way to use that really cool army you wanted to build, despite it not being perfectly legal. The above mentioned armies most certainly are legal, perhaps with the exception of the 50+ Raptor army, and thus having to proxy (because that's really what it is) another army is silly to me.

 

In the end I would just like to offer a link to the mainforum, where such a discussion took place not at all long ago, and which might to enlighten as to my grumpy answer;

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=200794

 

 

EDIT: And I have to echo JamesI's comment from above as well. Fighting the same opponents all the time would be extremely boring. How am I suppose to better myself as a general then?

[Whitefireinferno]

I personally Hate the "counts as" rule for 2 reasons, Reason number one has prettymuch been stated above it removes the need for people to convert a army since everything can "Counts As" something else I do not mind it as the sort of Ork Guard army and the Ork Deffwing armies due to effort being put into them rather than these yes thats Mephy And those Dred legs on a base are a DC dred and no that is not Pedro its Tycho I mean really come on. and Reason number 2 I really do not want to have to go to my LGS and have to yell out *PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT USING THE BA CODEX COME HERE" and have one or two people come over and then one heard me wrong and plays fantasy....

[Grazcruzk]

I don't mind it. Blood Angels and World Eaters have always been my favorite armies. I think as long as you have decent fluff for it and conversions to back it up it works pretty well. When the Wolf dex came out I thought about using it for WE or BA, but ended up going against it. Now I've considered making up some WE for use with the BA dex since I've got a heresy-era WE squad painted up. Hell I've thought about coming up with some renegade band of outcast BA and some WE who didn't cross the line during the heresy for whatever reason. I know that is pretty out there but it would be fun. I could see a very fluffy WE army using the BA dex. You could go old school and have teeth of Khorne and everything. DC could be your berzerkers and you could model up some insane icon bearers for sang priests. Mostly on foot. Not a very practical army, I'm sure, but it would be fun to play. I dunno. I can understand how people are against it. A lot of bandwagoning and such, but I think if someone does a good enough job representing the units it makes for good times.

[Gridlocked]

I am starting to see a trend.

People don't mind armies using a codex that is not theirs if they make the army fit the codex fluff. The example would be the Deffwing.

People hate armies using a codex if they force the codex to fit the army. The example would be extreme running and jumping BTs of doom.

 

Or did i Just get that backwards?

[Loki73]

I dont mind. I used to mind. But with rising GW prices and a looming recession (at least in the US) this kind of thing is gonna happen.

[Droofus]

I am starting to see a trend.

People don't mind armies using a codex that is not theirs if they make the army fit the codex fluff. The example would be the Deffwing.

People hate armies using a codex if they force the codex to fit the army. The example would be extreme running and jumping BTs of doom.

 

Or did i Just get that backwards?

 

Nope you got it dead on.

 

Using BA to represent to get enough jump troops to represent an 8th company or Night Lords/Raven Guard force = totally fine

 

Using BA to give simply to give your marines feel no pain and furious charge = lame as hell.

 

But somehow I doubt the people who would take the second path really give a damn what we think.

[Grazcruzk]

I am starting to see a trend.

People don't mind armies using a codex that is not theirs if they make the army fit the codex fluff. The example would be the Deffwing.

People hate armies using a codex if they force the codex to fit the army. The example would be extreme running and jumping BTs of doom.

 

Or did i Just get that backwards?

 

Nope you got it dead on.

 

Using BA to represent to get enough jump troops to represent an 8th company or Night Lords/Raven Guard force = totally fine

 

Using BA to give simply to give your marines feel no pain and furious charge = lame as hell.

 

But somehow I doubt the people who would take the second path really give a damn what we think.

 

I also think that it is something that should be agreed upon well a head of time. If you're cool with it then no problem, if you aren't cool with it then just don't play with them.

[Knyx]

Counts as armies, made and painstakingly converted into funny Renegade/Ork armies are one thing. Its fun, the units are generally clear, and you can enjoy the fact that the player is playing Blood Angels with a sense of humor.

 

I can even handle bandwagon players who proxy the whole dam army.

 

Butf they are trying to pretend its "fluffy" for Night Lords/Raven Guard/World Eaters/Iron Hands or you name it to use Blood Angels units.....

 

I'd actually prefer to be outright cheated against than to suffer the company of anyone doing this.

 

Because lets face it.

Its a bold faced lie.

Not fluff.

 

Its not fluff when you take Night Lords and Raven Guard who hit and run from the shadows as Blood Angels. Those chapters are stealth, commando oriented. Thats more-or-less the background fluff, with one a little heavier on the "terror" aspect.

Blood Angels are not stealthy. They are as flashy and prideful as it gets. They launch brutal all or nothing strikes with an extremely Iconic tragic hero character leading a charge to either glory or hell.

The only thing similar, is jump packs. And even that, is a misconception based on models like Shrike. Just because he happens to have one, does not mean that the Raven Guard has more than any other Codex Chapter.

Same with the Night Lords. The popular imagery of Night Lords are Raptors, who are not the predominate type of Night Lord.

 

Iron Hands like Dreadnoughts. Sure. The Normal Kind. Without the extra attacks because the Iron Hands don't look at their Venerable Ancients and say "You know what you could use instead of that Codex gun? Another thing to hit people with!". It would also be ridiculous for some Codex chapter to take a Libby Dread just to use Blood lance, or Wings of Sanguineous, Might of Heros or Unleash Rage.

 

Word Bearers, as undivided, really don't even have any ground to stand on.

 

World Eaters, who have the most legitimate claim to band wagon hopping, already have something that accurately represents them in Berserkers. They are more Angry, not tougher, than most things. Hence extra attacks and FC in the Zerker profile.

 

 

 

All of this is overshadowed by the amount of nerve it would take for someone to take Death Company, or Death Company Dreads. They are Death Company, not because they are angry in battle. That is the Furious Charge rule. They are Death Company because Horus killed Sanguineous SO horribly, that it STILL drives people insane.

 

Sanguinary Priests have a diluted version of the blood of the Primarch in them, and give people shots/drinks of it when they need it. Last I checked, the Blood Angels don't share the blood of Sanguineous with anyone else.

 

Also, how the hell do any of those people justify The Red Thirst rule and Fast vehicles, things you can't even build lists without they are so common?

Sanguinary Guard, Baal Preds....

 

All of this, is written as in the fluff, Blood Angel exclusive.

 

I don't mind people jumping ship. Thats cool. Tired of losing? Just need a change? Money problems, or simply to lazy? Fine.

 

But call it what it is, don't pretend your being legitimate or fluffy when you do it.

 

I hate it when people try to pretend thats how a Chapter/Legion is, in an attempt to justify themselves wanting to have more competitive lists. I did not choose to play Blood Angels to have people come along and say that they are the same as "Fluffy" Night Lords (Or Insert Name here). They aren't. At all. Blood Angels (and successors) are the only things in 40k like Blood Angels.

 

 

Raven Guard Captain standing in for Lord Dante? Sure. I can deal with that. Thats called a Proxy.

Raven Guard Captain with Dante's stat line and rules? No, he would cease to be a Raven Guard Captain, and be Lord Dante.

 

See it now?

 

Its a minor difference, and really has no effect on the outcome of the game played. (Besides an Ulcer)

But to me, and many other Blood Angel players. Its all the difference.

Its a matter of chapter pride.

[Looted Monolith]

Well feeling kinda defensive

 

You could run pre-heresy world eaters very easily, at the end of false gods Horus heresy novel, Angron=Mefiston led 100 jump pack equipped berzerkers= Tons of DC w/jumppacks into the last fortress of the techno...guys

 

Or just recently i have started a small counts as imperial guard all grot army to back my orks in apoc, i have scratch built a GROT KOMISAR YARIK and about 30 other random grot fredom fighters, they are so much more fun to create/work on than actual guard.

 

Knyx: why do we have Librarian Dreadnoughts? And not the Thousand sons, Not the Ultramarines, the night lords primarch has as much phycic ability as Sanguinius maybe they are entitled to the chance to use it, and they to can lose it first turn.

 

"They are Death Company because Horus killed Sanguineous SO horribly, that it STILL drives people insane. " What? Everything in 40k is awful and horrable, everyone is insane. And Sanguinious new what he had to do, what would be done to him, to give the emperor a chance, get our regergetated fluff right. I dont get where you'r coming from it is a game where we, very old men play with little dolls, just cause another old man would like to breath new fun life into his little dolls by using my codex Im not gonna tell him not to.

 

Your whole argument is baseless, you must live a very short angry life, have fun playing by your self.

 

I started this thread to help people cope with our codex, Not so we could aggressively horde our precious sanguanry priest, god forbid they touch our baals.

[kollar]

Well feeling kinda defensive

 

You could run pre-heresy world eaters very easily, at the end of false gods Horus heresy novel, Angron=Mefiston led 100 jump pack equipped berzerkers= Tons of DC w/jumppacks into the last fortress of the techno...guys

 

You are still looking for a reason to use the rules, rather than the idea itself, and then finding that the only way you could make it work is by the Blood Angel codex. I doubt you had this idea before the new Blood Angel codex was released, and if you did, why didn't you actualise it with the PDF? It had the same amount of potential to make a fluffy "pre heresy world eater assault group with jump packs".

 

 

Or just recently i have started a small counts as imperial guard all grot army to back my orks in apoc, i have scratch built a GROT KOMISAR YARIK and about 30 other random grot fredom fighters, they are so much more fun to create/work on than actual guard.

 

This does sound like a cool idea. Would love to see some pics of it.

 

Knyx: why do we have Librarian Dreadnoughts? And not the Thousand sons, Not the Ultramarines, the night lords primarch has as much phycic ability as Sanguinius maybe they are entitled to the chance to use it, and they to can lose it first turn.

 

Ehm? Because it's nowhere in the fluff at all? There is no Thousand Sons Librarian Dreadnoughts. There aren't even Thousand Sons Librarians. They are sorcerers and practice their warp craft in a different way to Librarians. Indeed, any Chaos Marine who is interred into a Dreadnought goes insane. Makes it hard to manipulate the warp I bet.

[Looted Monolith]

Ehm? Because it's nowhere in the fluff at all? Agreed

 

THX-they are really cool, but a hedge will usely block their line of sight

 

I play Real Orks (DEFF WHENG), Real Blood Angels (Flesh Tearers 8th Company), I play grot Guard, I even Play space wolves in Apocalypse sometimes, (21 SS+TH termi Lone wolves) my 300 Spartans.

 

I have played every army to great extent except Eldar and tyranid. I see no reason to guard our codex with such Zealous Selfishness. I would rather spread understanding as others see our codex as game breaking, it is, but its fragile at the same token with rage easily thwarted and rhinos that pop killing everyone inside because they move flat out.

 

Its fun to do a counts as army once in a while

[Vilicate]

It's your army; the worst someone who doesn't like it can do is just not play against it.

 

If you want to play your army with different rules, that's entirely up to you. So who really cares what some random dudes say on the internet?

[Isryion]

It's your army; the worst someone who doesn't like it can do is just not play against it.

 

If you want to play your army with different rules, that's entirely up to you. So who really cares what some random dudes say on the internet?

 

Agreed.

 

Personally, the only thing that I would ask of an opponent is that it be pretty clear which units are which. While awhile back, I wasn't a huge fan of the idea for armies that are better represented by other codexes, I've come around.

[Droofus]

As I said before, I have no problem with people who make an effort to justify the playstyle of their army (World Eaters, Night Lords, etc.). Hell, I admire them for thinking outside the box.

 

The thing that really irks me is the people who play their grey, unpainted marines by whatever the latest codex is. Face facts, many of these folks were probably playing Space Wolves back in January, and switched between Chaos Marines and Codex Marines before that. It reeks of a "win at all costs" attitude that totally ignores a good part of what I enjoy in the hobby. They can do whatever the heck they want, but I'm free to find their attitude annoying as well.

 

But again, if some poor player had invisioned an all-jump assault marines force for his strikeforce for a long time and jumped at the chance to field one with the blood angels dex, I say 'More power to you, and welcome to the fold!'.