Matt Ward strikes again!

[igotsmeakabob!!]

I'll even be happy with the Death Co. in a few instances.. my upcoming game with a 'nid friend who has a ton of termagants is one. I don't care what they do in that game, because their combat prowess is so superior to the gants. If they run into a MC, they have a Thunder Hammer.

It's really the first opportunity I have to use DC as they should be... taken off the leash and just watch the damage they do.

I'm a little excited to see what happens.

[Escaflowne_Z]

The DC certainly should shine in a battle like that! Good luck! :)

 

As for our new book, it's great; I love it. I don't play competitively anymore for a host of reasons, but in the game where I helped a friend get ready for 'Ard Boys with his super-competitive Chaos List o' Doom, I wound up thrashing him. It was the fourth time I'd played with the new book, and dice rolls were very normal on both sides. Guard have always given Marines fits to an extent. Competitive lists make this bad matchup show up even more. Lots of cheap shooting plus pie plates have been bad news for marines for a long, long time.

 

Our codex shines on versatility, sensible points costs (bar jump DC, perhaps), and variety. Weak points are some fluff bits and made up stuff (Dante making nice with Necrons and the Sanguinor).

[Roleplayer]

The chaos player he playd against in that battle report was more hilarious.

 

"My thousands sons are awesome, I am going to out them in front as a melee tarpit."

 

.....WHAT?!

[igotsmeakabob!!]

Maybe if they were going against a terminator or VV squad..

[shatter]

You know, I dont think the developers are "stupid" or forgetful.

 

And the consistency of GW mistakes leads me to believe the rules are designed by the designer in a certain way, to work a certain way and then undergo a lot of playtesting/changes by the design team.

 

Whether or not the original designer then goes back to read the dex with a fine tooth comb or still sticks to the intent of the rule as he designed it in his mind, is unknown.

Personally, I think this is the issue at hand.

 

It is however very unprofessional, not mainly of Matt Ward (though he does share a bit of blame here) but for the editors and games developers that should be checking for these mistakes.

 

Anyway, bit of a pity that the advice is not up to par.

 

I agree!

 

Although, I think his 40 man comment is a fair generalization to newer players especially. If one's army is a monster with 40hp & characters n' armour, it'll absorb a few more mistakes than mine with 25hp and characters n' no armour.

 

And the BBQ Baals? (I like that term btw!) Ive been using them and found them horribly sub-par.

 

I prefer BaalBQ.

 

Back to the Tycho's Dead Man's Hand thing.

 

I warned you there are other weapons in codeci that don't actually say they're weapons. DMH doesn't specifically say it's a weapon. And power weapons don't say they're weapons either (yes, ridiculous). *shrug*

 

Take a look, there are weapons that don't actually say they're weapons.

 

Do it. I invited you before and got an 'oh yeah?' but I was tiring of your holier than thou attitude and really didn't feel like doing even this minor leg-work on your behalf.

 

*rummages through codeci*

 

Actually, you'll probably only care if it's in C:BA.

 

*flips through codex*

 

Check out autocannons. What's that? It has a stat line? Irrelevant, CC weapons don't have stat-lines, just descriptors of effects which both PWs and the DMH have which effects a stat-line (equivalence).

 

Everywhere I play uses Tycho's DMH as a PW and so does Mr Ward. You're gonna have to get over this one and save this forum some embarrassment with your 'executive decision' to disallow the +1 attack. The convention for disallowing +1 attack is for the rules or codex to state it's either 2handed or specifically disallow it by other means or reasons (LCs, etc), not for you to simply say so.

 

Or you can add (at least) autocannons to the consignment of stuff that must needs go back to mars.

[Morticon]

You're gonna have to get over this one and save this forum some embarrassment with your 'executive decision' to disallow the +1 attack. The convention for disallowing +1 attack is for the rules or codex to state it's either 2handed or specifically disallow it by other means or reasons (LCs, etc), not for you to simply say so.

 

Matey - save it. Until you can find a rule to back yourself up, you and all your friends are wrong as far as the rules are concerned.

 

As far as "The Most Important Rule" is concerned- you can play however you want though - so feel free.

 

But dont for a second think its what the rules are actually saying, or that an "executive decision" has been made. It hasn't.

 

If you dont believe me, go take a look in the Official Rules forum, and I guarantee you'll get the same answer from a broader player base.

DMH Debate

 

Highlighting Tycho's plusses in the easiest way possible in a conversational style interview is hardly, haaardly evidence of anything - especially considering how many other errors were made in this interview and in previous ones/previous Battle Reports. Additionally, how rubbish a sales-man would you have to be to highlight a weakness or drawback of the product you're selling? "Oh Tycho has a powerweapon (that doesnt actually give you any additional attacks -but still ignores armour".

Wordy, and ineffective as a sale point.

 

 

Now, with all that said, it may have TOTALLY, TOTALLY been the intention of MW to grant an additional attack.

Thats not our concern.

It may have also been the intention to have the DC useable to a greater tactical degree.

But its not the way the rules are currently written.

 

 

We play what the rules say, and not to what we think they should say. (Or what we and our mates have decided according to "the most important rule").

[Emperors Immortals]

Well, i agree with a few points in this thread, and im a little upset by the furore over the dex - which in my opinion is the best one since 2nd ed.I think we have a real marine dex, were great at most things and competetive IMO but like the BA we are, we are just a bit better at close fighting (fast tanks and jumpers).

 

I would have liked some control over DC, but honestly i just dump them as far in land as possible (raider, rhino or SR) and let them go nuts, just like they should.

 

Ive only played a few games, but ive won against IG and Ultras and lost against tau and sallies (i have a nid battle coming up soon).

 

My biggest problem has been figuring out how to use sterngaurd effectivly, so far im using pods or LR (dont ask me why i love the stern so much, they just cry out to me ).

 

So, once we can get our FAQ back well be set.

[the jeske]

My biggest problem has been figuring out how to use sterngaurd effectivly, so far im using pods or LR (dont ask me why i love the stern so much, they just cry out to me ).

alfa strike BA build do use 10 man sternguard in pod with 10 combi weapons . they land . combat squad smoke two transports , helps other units shot up cargo . after that there is 2 units of them that can rapid fire with specialy ammo what may hurt some units , this draws away fire from other elements of the army or if they arent countered its 20 shots wih upgrades bolters.

[DarkKnightCuron]

Seems this codex has been written by a chi...

 

 

MAAAAAT WAAAAAAARRRRRD!!! *shakes fist*

 

That said I never take anything GW publish in white dwarf as anything other then rubbish ment to encourage people into spending their hard earnt cash on things that arnt currently selling well or are the flavour of the month. The painting stuff is awesome tho.

 

I just had this awesome image of a Blood Angel Captain, holding the codex in his hand, the other hand shaking at the sky, with his face yelling as said sky, going "MAAAAAAAAT WAAAAAAAAAAAARD!!!"

[JamesI]

Shatter. The rules for power weapons are in the "Special Close Combat Weapons" section of the rulebook. Everything in that section is by definition a weapon.

 

Dead Man's Hand may have been intended to be a weapon, but by rules they left that out.

[daboarder]

personaly I think DMH was specifically NOT meant to be a power weapon, hence the refrence to it allowing tycho to stike as a monstrous creature instead of counts as a powerweapon with 2d6 pen.

[Whitefireinferno]

Yeah I think it was ment to not be a powerweapon in the exact same way that The HQ from Tau commander Farsight *the one with a sword* he strikes like a MC so ignores armour and has 2d6 pen but thats filthy Xeno Scum and should'nt be discussed here. So I guess we will have to wait until we get a FAQ by GW and see if they make any changes like that... Oh and give us AA I mean come on why do the artizens of the 40k world not have decent armour.

[SamaNagol]

Fast Rhino hulled vehicles for dirt cheap in 1500pts and some truly powerful deathstar units in bigger games make the BA dex very competitive.

 

Everyone looked at the Space Wolves first and saw a bunch of toys and rules and all Terminator lists, and now the best builds are based on 9 man Grey Hunters in Rhinos with a Wolf Guard alongside 5 ML Long Fangs and whatever u want to flavour.

 

BA are very much competitive at 1500, and more so the more points u get to spend on more powerful combinations.

[BrotherMoses]

I don't think he's suppossed to get the extra +1 attack. I don't think Tycho has ever gotten the +1 attack for being double armed. He's always had a rather shooty loadout. I can see the "strike as MC" line as indication that they did not intend for him to recieve the +1 attack.

 

I'm going to stay out of the rules argument other than that to say I'm really glad noone tried to make me play my vindicator as not having a blast at 'Ardboyz.

[Morticon]

Lads- lets not get into the DMH argument more than we have done here. Theres an OR thread on it for people wanting to weigh in their thoughts further.

 

BrotherMoses - good to hear about the hardboys players!

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I think Matt Ward's article was intended mainly for players new to the game and from that perspective I am okay with it. Sure a veteran BA player is not going to gleen much from it but that's okay... White Dwarf is pretty much just a sales tool now.

 

0b ;)

[Brother Rathul]

40! wow, look at the army list section, do you see any 40 man lists at 1500points? we aren't black templars or horde marines, we are elites, we do more with less.

 

Don't take this offensively but, Black Templars are just as good as any Blood Angels and aren't horde marines. They just always get the job done unlike your precious "pretty blood angels!" ;)

Anyway, I don't see anything wrong with forty blood angels, that's just another good thing in the terms of playing Warhammer 40,000; wouldn't you want more awesome Blood angels to kick but with in the first place?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

40 Marines is a large number for sure.

 

0b ;)

[whitewolfmxc]

You know, I dont think the developers are "stupid" or forgetful.

 

And the consistency of GW mistakes leads me to believe the rules are designed by the designer in a certain way, to work a certain way and then undergo a lot of playtesting/changes by the design team.

 

Whether or not the original designer then goes back to read the dex with a fine tooth comb or still sticks to the intent of the rule as he designed it in his mind, is unknown.

Personally, I think this is the issue at hand.

 

It is however very unprofessional, not mainly of Matt Ward (though he does share a bit of blame here) but for the editors and games developers that should be checking for these mistakes.

 

 

Nope, sorry. It HAS to be a Matt Ward thing. He single-handedly destroyed Fantasy by creating the monstrosity that is the daemon book.

 

He is, without a doubt, the worst armybook/codex author out there. They should've canned his butt SO long ago. Gav Thorpe had his bad moments, but he also had some good ones; several of his books were solid and well designed. Plus, the background was consistent; Gav knows how to write.

 

We'll see. I'm more of a fantasy player than a 40k player (I like to play 40k as more of a beer and pretzels type game), so I'm fairly apprehensive about a new edition of those rules forthcoming.

 

I like many of the rules for BA, but let's face it; the book has got some completely OP gear and units. I wish that Ward would stick writing LotR stuff and keep his butterfingers out of 40k and WFB.

 

 

agreeed LOL stay away from our codexes MR WARD !!!!

[Gridlocked]

I think its still a good read regardless of how accurate the articles are, thought I would hope they are atleast accurate to their own rules :S.

As a newer player myself I can say that I didn't take White Dwarf seriously (not for 40K anyway, some of those WHFB articles are intresting) for gaming articles, thats why I found places like B&C to learn list construction.

[Requiem of the Wolf]

I think its still a good read regardless of how accurate the articles are, thought I would hope they are atleast accurate to their own rules :S.

As a newer player myself I can say that I didn't take White Dwarf seriously (not for 40K anyway, some of those WHFB articles are intresting) for gaming articles, thats why I found places like B&C to learn list construction.

 

Actually I believe I found a FAQ somewhere that stated it wasn't a weapon. I am not 100% sure and am not sure where I found it. So take it with a double handful of salt if you wish,But I believe it's FAQ'ed somewhere,so if someone wanted to check they could.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I liked the part where Matt listed all the special characters & unique HQ providing his input on what each one was intended for and ranking them in terms of power. Astorath came in behind Dante, Mephiston & the Sanguinor.

 

0b

[raptor1199]

why did i think batman when i see tread

 

i can have 72 men chaos marine mech army at 1,5k

[SamaNagol]

The DMH is not described as a weapon anywhere in it's Wargear entry. It is just a piece of wargear that confers bonuses

[Isryion]

I liked the part where Matt listed all the special characters & unique HQ providing his input on what each one was intended for and ranking them in terms of power. Astorath came in behind Dante, Mephiston & the Sanguinor.

 

0b

 

Are you saying we can then be certain that this is not what the reality is in game? :(