Dealing with Horde Armies

[MagneticFreak]

Hi all,

 

During the last months (and pretty much since the release of our beloved codex), I played in my local club, being pretty much undefeated. Most of the armies I play against are Elite armies like Eldar, Space marines, Blood Angels and Mechanized IG, where the model count is fairly low.

 

Yesterday, one new player brought his Orks and challenged me, and I got...well... slaughtered. :P

 

I did several mistakes in this game, but overall, I realized that a Boys squad can unleash a very important amount of attacks (obvious, I know!).

 

Even if I charge them, they will still be pletty of models left to kill al mine. I have a decent amount of shooting in my army (2 x Long fangs squads with 4xML each), but my opponent kept his model quite far away from each other so that I did not manage to kill enough. Hi orks were fearless, so no point in trying to make them flee...

 

Any veteran tactics against Nids/Orks?

[DV8]

Post your list.

 

I haven't had too much difficulty with horde armies so far, and the key I've found is to seize the initiative (not literally as in steal first turn per se) and make sure you take the fight to him. The key to a horde army is numerical superiority; if they can bring the full weight of their numbers down on you, you're done.

 

Orks are stronger on the charge than receiving one. Because of Furious Charge, each boy is Strength 4, Initiative 3, with 4 Attacks apiece. That means a full mob will steam roll a squad of marines on the charge. However, if you deny them that charge, then each boy is only Strength 3, Initiative 2 with 3 Attacks apiece. Which makes a unit much more manageable.

 

Don't try to fight even. If you pair up one of his mobs to any one of your units, you will lose. Whether it's a massacre first round or a fight of attrition, you simply cannot afford to be bogged down in combat for any length of time. Your units need to work in tandem and hit simultaneously to take out a single unit. If he brings a mob of Orks, you bring two packs of Grey Hunters against it. Don't try and hit them on all fronts. Hit one spot with the full weight of your force and sweep across.

 

Jaws of the World Wolf is a godsend for picking out those Power Klaws before you charge in. Their lower Initiative combined with sheer target saturation means you'll hit a lot, and you'll kill a lot.

 

Murderous Hurricane is amazing for the simple reason that you force him to roll lots of dice. 3D6 S3 hits won't do much against their Toughness 4, but if every model is rolling a dangerous terrain test first when he moves, and then when he charges? Yikes.

 

EDIT:

 

Tyranids is another issue entirely. They are far faster than Orks, and while individually weaker they hurt far more because of the synergy possible in their list. Use Jaws early on to try and pick out their Monstrous Creatures and knock out their Synapse. Without that Leadership net, you can quite break a horde of Gaunts quite easily, and Murderous Hurricane is worth its weight in gold here.

 

Again same principle, take the initiative, don't get bogged down in combat. Don't try and weaken two units, kill one.

 

And in all instances, never lose sight of the objective. Destroying your opponent is worthless (unless you table him) if he controls the objectives. Likewise, losing the bulk of your army means nothing if you control the objectives. And in Annihilation never forget that denying a Kill Point is just as effective as taking one. Maintain a decent gap in Kill Points and force him to come to you to take those. Lure him into disadvantageous positions and draw him into your lines.

 

 

DV8

[Simo429]

plasma spam isnt it?

 

plasma cannons for your long fangs take them out from distance and then mop up his boys

[Hotspur]

I would start by taking more weapons w/ high rates of fire, i.e. assault cannons and heavy bolters, since they don't have to worry about the squads being spaced too far apart. If you kit out your LF squads with 3x HB and 2x ML, they should be ork wrecking machines. LS Tornadoes can be very effective against hordes b/c you can arm them with a HB and an assault cannon.

 

Template weapons usually do very well against horde armies, even if the models are spaced to the max of 2" apart. You may want to measure next time...but that's beside the point. Plasma cannons are some of my personal favorites b/c they do a lot of damage and ignore most armor saves. You may want to think about fielding a whirlwind or two as well, and maybe even a couple of vindicators. The mere presence of vindicators on the field will completely change the way he plays you, as will the presence of a couple of whirlwinds. Nothing like two vindicator shots, or two pie-plate barrages to thin down the hordes.

 

I think the old adage, "Shoot the killy and kill the shooty" can be applied to your specific situation w/ great success!

 

These setups work very well against the tyranids, too, so if you ever come up against them, keep these tips in mind.

 

Hope that helps!

[MagneticFreak]

Thanks for the comments made so far.

 

Here is my list: My SW List

 

I unfortunately do not own any vindicators. I do have a Whirwind though, but it rarely does a good job. I really want to have the best all-comers list as possible, and I do not see where a Whirwind fits...but a vindicator perhaps.

[Godhead]

I have had some similar problems with orks. There are tons of them and weight of numbers tend to win the day on with them. Space Wolves are better than any individual ork, but when they are 4-1, 5-1 then it becomes a game of achieving a good death :)

 

Flamers (any template weapon really) are your friend. I reorganized my list to include more of them. Against other space marines the flamers aren't really great, but against daemons, nids, orks, footslogging guard and eldar, then they are great. The MM/Hf speeder is versatile and cheap option. Having a flamer in a squad of gh's works well too.

 

Typically my long fangs get bombed by loota's and die pretty quickly before really getting to do much. The funny thing is, an Orks best AT weapon is their power claws, which if they destroy a tank, quite a few go down with it. Having said that, I have used dreads with heavy flamers to good effect as well and tend to keep my forward troops in their ride for as long as possible. If you do go with a dread, then a dread in a drop pod with a deathwind launcher can be very effective as well.

 

If the ork trukks it up, then they won't be in squads of greater than 12 which your greyhunters should EASILY be able to beat down. If they hop in battlewagons, then they get pricey quick, and they lose part of their advantage with numbers.

 

An orks I is only 3 so JOTWW can be effective as well, along with murderous hurricane, which slows a footsloggers advance.

[Grey Mage]

Your light on bodies for one.... you need more GHs.

 

Even on the assault orks are only I 3, full 10 man squads of GHs shouldnt lose more than 1 member from orkish troops shooting as they advance, and they should get in atleast two, if not three, rounds of shooting. You then assault first.

 

So, just to throw down a couple numbers- at 13+ inches your looking at 3-4 dead orks a round, with and another 7 once your in rapid fire range. So, call it 13 dead orks. Once they assault you, counter attacking *assuming a powerfist here* youll get in 27 attacks before he goes, leaving you with 5-6 dead orks after saves. His remaining 10 boyz do 10 wounds, bringing down 3-4 grey hunters. Your powerfist brings down another one, his brings down 2. Either hes still fearless, and has to take 6+ armor saves or die.... or hes lost be 2-3 and you have +1 on the roll to catch him.

 

The numbers get better with a little support from your long fangs. Not even consistant support either, just one round of shooting frags at them. A Whirlwinds even nicer.

 

SWs are the Orks natural predator.

 

So... Drop one of your characters. Use those points to fill out your troops a bit. Then let him come to you, use counter-assault to your advantage, and wipe him from the board. Mega-armored Nobz? Youve got the best counter-assault unit in the game in those WGTDA you bought, and the landraider is an excellant way to assure youll get that charge off on them.

 

Make sure to use your MLs on Dethkoptas and big-gunned looted vehicles, and then a round of fragging boyz is reccommended.

 

Your LS just need to keep out of sight of lootas and theres not alot that can touch it.

 

Fenrisian Wolves should be a kind of agressive reserve- if theres an enemy unit thats been well weakened by shooting and is in their larger assault range- take the shot with them, and redirect your hunters on meatier targets.

[Godhead]

I just looked at your list, and TBH I'd ditch the LR for a LRR. It's an easy proxy until you actually get one if your club will allow that. Barring that.. get a piece of paper and wrap it around the barrels of the Lascannons, and then get another piece (maybe thicker) and wrap it around the end and call it a flamestorm cannon. You can still tank hunt with the LRR if you put a MM on the roof (which comes out to the same price as the LR and you get a TL AC instead of hbs).

 

I'd also consider moving the flamer to one of your rhino gh squads and put that 5 man with a meltagun. If you can rearrange 10 points, then just add the HF to your landspeeder.

 

Oh, and a buddy of mine doesn't believe in buying flamers for his troops. He prefers to go with combiflamers since you typically only get 1 to 2 shots with a flamer per game when its carried in a unit.

[DV8]

WGBL - Frost blade, SS

Rune Priest - Chooser, Wolf tail talisman Powers: Hurricane, Living Lightning

Wolf Priest - Wolf tail talisman, Saga of the Wolfkin

 

Too many points in characters. Even at 1850, you need to really thin it down and keep things simple. The workhorse of any Space Marine has been, is, and always will be the Tactical Marine (in our case Grey Hunter).

 

4 x Wolf guard Terminators - 4x SS, 2x Power axes, 1x power fist, 1x TH

 

Expensive, entirely close combat oriented. You essentially have 250-300 ish point tied up in a unit that is only good in close combat. And even then not really, since generic Assault Terminators do it better, cheaper. The strength of Wolf Guard is in their versatility with gear and the fact that they can be split off to join other packs. With so many Wolf Guard why do you not have one with Cyclone Missile Launchers? Take advantage of the fact that you meet the minimum requirement of 5.

 

7 x Grey Hunters - Meltagun, MoTW, Standard, Rhino (Rune Priest Joins)

1 x Wolf Guard - Power fist

 

8 x Grey Hunters - Meltagun, MoTW, Rhino, Standard, Rhino

1 x Wolf Guard - Power fist

 

5 x Grey Hunters - Flamer, Razorback with Twin-lascannon

 

Meh units. The first two are okay but you have so much extra unnecessary gear that just eats up points. I won't even start with the second unit, that has an assault weapon in a vehicle with a long ranged tank hunting weapon?

 

And don't even get me started on the fact that only only have 3 Troops choices at 1850, barely full strength.

 

9 x Fenrisian wolves

9 x Fenrisian wolves

 

What is the point of these, except to eat up your points, give free Kill Points, and MAYBE run as distraction? Fenrisian Wolves have their place supporting Thunder Wolf Cavalry lists, which don't have the points to bring heavy numbers to bear. Fenrisian Wolves can lend their weight in attacks to support the cavalry. You don't need them here.

 

Land speeder - MM

 

I like speeders. Find 10 points to make this a Tornado with a Heavy Flamer and this unit is golden.

 

5 x Long Fangs - 4 ML

5 x Long Fangs - 4 ML

Land raider (Wolf Priest, WGBL and Terminators inside)

 

Not a fan of Long Fangs but they can have their place. Don't even get me started on the Land Raider. Totally unnecessary in your list, you're better off using the points to take more Grey Hunters.

 

Rune Priest - 110 pts

Living Lightning, Jaws of the World Wolf

Bolter, Chooser of the Slain

 

Rune Priest - 110 pts

Living Lightning, Tempest's Wrath or Murderous Hurricane

Bolt Pistol, Chooser of the Slain

 

10 Wolf Guard - 490 pts

TDA, Cyclone Missile Launcher (joins Long Fangs)

TDA, Cyclone Missile Launcher (joins Long Fangs)

2 TDA, 2 Combi-Flamers/Meltas

4 Power Fists, 3 Combi-Flamers (one per Grey Hunter pack)

2 Power Fists, 2 Combi-Meltas (one per Wolf Scout pack)

Drop Pod

 

5 Wolf Scouts - 85 pts

Meltagun

 

5 Wolf Scouts - 85 pts

Meltagun

 

8 Grey Hunters - 160 pts

Meltagun, Rhino

 

8 Grey Hunters - 160 pts

Meltagun, Rhino

 

9 Grey Hunters - 175 pts

Meltagun, Rhino

 

9 Grey Hunters - 175 pts

Meltagun, Rhino

 

Land Speeder Tornado - 70 pts

Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer

 

5 Long Fangs - 115 pts

4 Missile Launchers

 

5 Long Fangs - 115 pts

4 Missile Launchers

 

Total - 1850 pts

 

Rune Priests ride in the 8-strong packs, and all the assigned Wolf Guard have been designated. The remaining two drop in with the Drop Pod as a suicide squad. The Combi-Melta is more utilitarian, as you can use it to pre-emptively knock out enemy armor, but the Combi-Flamer will allow you to drop in almost immediately and start targeting big units that like to hide in the back (like Lootas or Devastators). With two units of Wolf Scouts OBELing, I'd be inclined to take the Combi-Flamers and go for infantry. The choice is yours though.

 

 

DV8

[Hotspur]

Thanks for the comments made so far.

 

Here is my list: My SW List

 

I unfortunately do not own any vindicators. I do have a Whirwind though, but it rarely does a good job. I really want to have the best all-comers list as possible, and I do not see where a Whirwind fits...but a vindicator perhaps.

 

The only drawback to the vindi is that its main weapon only has a 24" range. While the demolisher cannon is the be-all and end-all of high powered weapons, its reach is very short. That is why I say to field no less than two b/c then they'll be able to cover one another and any probable objectives.

 

Whirlwinds are the same; I think they work best in pairs, especially when facing a horde the size of the one you are. Since orks don't get much of an armor save anyway, you won't have to worry too much about the AP value of the missiles. Just pray to Russ that the scatter-dice-gods are smiling upon you that day!

 

And, like Godhead said, flamers do work pretty well, too. I just didn't mention them b/c I tend to favor the other weapons, but they do work. No harm in giving them a try!

[Blarmb]

You want to know how you can spell the word "Unfair" against assaulty hordes? Murderous Hurricane, seriously this is five and a half kinds of nasty against those units.

 

It forces them to take a minimum of two (2) dangerous terrain tests to get at you, three (3) if they're trying to fleet over to you. They're generally lightly armored and so the AP - won't affect them as much. It's got a range of 18" which is the farthest away they can still be from you and still assault, as even fleet infantry need the 2" transport boost to go further than that. It also means they're going at init 1 if they dont' have assault grenades (Lookin' at you genestealers)

 

To top it all off, it makes a standard units assault range 7" and fleet ones 10.5" both enough to start and end in rapid-fire range.

[DV8]

Just FYI, as Run moves are unaffected by terrain effects, Dangerous Terrain has no effect on units Running or Fleeting.

 

 

DV8

[Blarmb]

Just FYI, as Run moves are unaffected by terrain effects, Dangerous Terrain has no effect on units Running or Fleeting.

 

 

DV8

 

Difficult Terrain doesn't slow them, but they must still make dangerous terrain tests.

 

Running movement is not affected by difficult terrain

– it is always simply D6" – but models running

through dangerous terrain must test as normal. Units

that run in the Shooting phase cannot assault in the

following Assault phase.

 

EDIT: This is on page 16 of the smaller rulebook, I don't know the page in the big one.

 

However the assault distances I gave were incorrect, since 2d6 keep highest is ~4.5 average, rather than 3.5. Meaning the average assault distance is 8" for a standard unit 12" for a fleet unit, while affected by Murderous Hurricane. However, that's still potentially slow enough to get bogged down in rapid fire range if they began at the edge.

[DV8]

Just FYI, as Run moves are unaffected by terrain effects, Dangerous Terrain has no effect on units Running or Fleeting.

 

 

DV8

 

Difficult Terrain doesn't slow them, but they must still make dangerous terrain tests.

 

Running movement is not affected by difficult terrain

– it is always simply D6" – but models running

through dangerous terrain must test as normal. Units

that run in the Shooting phase cannot assault in the

following Assault phase.

 

EDIT: This is on page 16 of the smaller rulebook, I don't know the page in the big one.

 

However the assault distances I gave were incorrect, since 2d6 keep highest is ~4.5 average, rather than 3.5. Meaning the average assault distance is 8" for a standard unit 12" for a fleet unit, while affected by Murderous Hurricane. However, that's still potentially slow enough to get bogged down in rapid fire range if they began at the edge.

 

Interesting. I did not know that. I guess I was cheated in the tournament on Sunday then, pesky Tau players... :P

 

No matter though, I still emerged victorious, and that's yet another thing I have to remember.

 

 

DV8

[Requiem of the Wolf]

The Land Raider Redeemer,is your best friend...for almost any army really. Against Orcs it is a godsend. Also remember when you are Tank shocking a group of boys to clump them up,only the targets in the path of your vehicle can elect to do the Death or Glory. Pg 69 under D&G btw. So aim at the edge of the unit or away from the powerclaw. Ask him which model has the powerclaw before you ram with the redeemer in fact. Then avoid that one,clump them all together,and use your Flamestorm to roast a bunch of them. Make sure you move at least 7 inches to ensure your opponent needing 6's to hit when he tried to charge.

 

As my sig shows,I love using the Redeemer as a battering ram. It has only failed me once,and that was when I didn't realize that a Death or Glory can involve shooting a weapon as well as a HTH attack and I lost a Redeemer to a Furioso dread.

 

Now as for shooting,focus fire on one unit at a time.

 

With Tyrannids,its all about target priority. Take out the units that will cause your army the most trouble first. Don't get out of your transports if at all possible when dealing with the swarms of little guys.

[Spacefrisian]

Just go with Dakka Preds

 

Predator:

-Autocannon, heavybolters, Stormbolter

 

This will most likely get more kills in 1 go than a Vindicator (opponent spreading his forces) and is the cheapest (lots of shots) heavy support unit..

[Logan230]

I left my suggestions to your list on the list itself, but after reading DV8's, thats another idea for you to run.

[Blarmb]

Just FYI, as Run moves are unaffected by terrain effects, Dangerous Terrain has no effect on units Running or Fleeting.

 

 

DV8

 

Difficult Terrain doesn't slow them, but they must still make dangerous terrain tests.

 

Running movement is not affected by difficult terrain

– it is always simply D6" – but models running

through dangerous terrain must test as normal. Units

that run in the Shooting phase cannot assault in the

following Assault phase.

 

EDIT: This is on page 16 of the smaller rulebook, I don't know the page in the big one.

 

However the assault distances I gave were incorrect, since 2d6 keep highest is ~4.5 average, rather than 3.5. Meaning the average assault distance is 8" for a standard unit 12" for a fleet unit, while affected by Murderous Hurricane. However, that's still potentially slow enough to get bogged down in rapid fire range if they began at the edge.

 

Interesting. I did not know that. I guess I was cheated in the tournament on Sunday then, pesky Tau players... ;)

 

No matter though, I still emerged victorious, and that's yet another thing I have to remember.

 

 

DV8

 

It's easy to overlook. Personally when I first read the power I assumed that it only trigger in the next movement phase, I didn't quite realize that "Next Turn" meant the whole turn. It really puts the enemy in a no-win situation, stay still or hurt themselves. Heck with just a pinch of luck it can even work against smaller units, multiple dangerous terrain tests even makes non-SS termies sweat a little.

[pucadubh]

Another nice tactic is if there is a high number of models in a unit strung out in a line, hit their flank.

 

Let me explain with a recent experience. My GH army was facing a strung out 30 strong Hormagant brood with a Warrior Prime attached at one end. He had spread them out to minimise blast damage and screen what was behind. My GHs assaulted the other end of the line deliberately setting up so they would only engage 1 or 2 on the charge. Even with pile in his big line simply stepped 6" to the side and I outnumbered the engaged models. For 3 Assault phases I tore them up piece by piece and the Prime kept getting dragged away from the flank he wanted to be on. I ended up killing all the Hormagants before I reeled in the Prime to cc so he didn't end up engaged by the time the last Hormagant died and just moved off but I had spent three turns just dragging him across the table while he did nothing while he was locked to the unit in cc!

 

It certainly changed the game and surprised the hell out of the Nid player.

[MagneticFreak]

Thank you all of you for your comments so far.

 

RunePriests...so good, but how to you get the close combat spice when you need it (e.g. deamon princes, greater deamons, Nids etc...)? Thats why I hesitate to take 2 of these guys.

 

I also thought about swithching a GH squad for a Bloodclaw pack to gain more attacks. But then again, WS 3 is such a big downer!

 

I think I will take HB in my Long Fangs squad. ALso, I might Add a heavy flamer on my Speeder (does this truly works more than once?).

 

My main concern is that I do not want to polarize my army ONLY for horde armies. Melta guns are very important if you deal with some other forces out there, so are my terminators.

[DV8]

If you pack enough Grey Hunters it's honestly never an issue. I've taken on power-houses like Logan Grimnar, Gabriel Seth, Hive Tyrants, etc. with nothing but generic packs of Grey Hunters (granted I throw 2 or more into the mix if I can). You need to first quickly eliminate the closest threats around, then blitz in, use your firepower to weaken your target, and a combined charge to take it out in one go.

 

Again the biggest threat of these guys is their resilience. The longer they live, the more they're going to kill of your unit, so you need to end the fight and drop them fast. Some long range punch from Long Fangs or Speeders, with close-range Plasma and Melta, followed by some Power Fist punches usually do the trick.

 

 

DV8

[MagneticFreak]

Ok, all this works in principle, but in practice, banshee squads are kept in their transport all game long. Most eldar player futher equip their tank so that it becomes astonishingly hard to break them soon enough to get a turn or two of shooting. Most often, the banshees get the charge and then just slice up their way through my GH...Thats one of the reason I spammed SS in my hammer unit.

[pucadubh]

Thank you all of you for your comments so far.

 

RunePriests...so good, but how to you get the close combat spice when you need it (e.g. deamon princes, greater deamons, Nids etc...)? Thats why I hesitate to take 2 of these guys.

 

I also thought about swithching a GH squad for a Bloodclaw pack to gain more attacks. But then again, WS 3 is such a big downer!

 

I think I will take HB in my Long Fangs squad. ALso, I might Add a heavy flamer on my Speeder (does this truly works more than once?).

 

My main concern is that I do not want to polarize my army ONLY for horde armies. Melta guns are very important if you deal with some other forces out there, so are my terminators.

 

Don't forget the Lone Wolf Beastslayer rule for MCs and in addition you can also give the Beastslayer saga to a Rune Priest with Living Lightning and you get rerolls on that vs MCs too (you can add a Chooser to make him miss less also). Murderous Hurricane is also cool because then they are assaulting out of difficult terrain and are therefore Initiative 1 (no modifiers allowed) so you get to swing first (Genestealers, Hormogaunts & even Eldar). This is still then an all comers build and not polarised :huh:

[DV8]

I'm basing all of my input on my current Space Wolf army build, and the tactics I use.

 

Rune Priest- 115 pts

Living Lightning, Jaws of the World Wolf

Chooser of the Slain, Bolter, Wolf Tail Talisman

 

Rune Priest- 115 pts

Living Lightning, Tempest's Wrath

Chooser of the Slain, Bolt Pistol, Wolf Tail Talisman

 

4 Wolf Guard - 177 pts

3 Power Fists, 3 Combi-Flamers (1 per Rhino pack)

1 Power Fist, Combi-Melta, Meltabomb (Scouts)

 

5 Wolf Scouts - 85 pts

Meltagun

 

8 Grey Hunters - 160 pts

Meltagun, Rhino

 

8 Grey Hunters - 160 pts

Meltagun, Rhino

 

9 Grey Hunters - 175 pts

Meltagun, Rhino

 

10 Grey Hunters - 190 pts

2 Meltaguns, Drop Pod

 

2 Land Speeder Typhoons - 180 pts

Typhoon Missile Launchers, Heavy Bolters

 

Land Speeder Tornado - 70 pts

Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer

 

Land Speeder Tornado - 70 pts

Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer

 

Total - 1497 pts

 

EDIT:

My Tornadoes should actually have Heavy Flamers...

 

I use Land Speeders for mobile firepower because I am constantly redeploying. The pricier vehicles means yes I lose out in a bit of firepower, but is compensated by mobility (survivability is debatable depending on terrain and opponent...I generally never lose more than half my Speeders). This is my all-comers list and I will happily throw it against anything you dare throw against me.

 

Your Long Fangs provide the same function, albiet less mobile but putting out more firepower. And if you're facing Eldar, you aren't dealing with a swarm of death, so target saturation isn't an issue. The principle however remains the same, kill a threat, move on. Don't attempt to deal with everything heading your way all at once. Start with the most immediate threat, kill it, move on to the next most immediate threat, kill it, and so on. If the Falcon with the Banshees is your most present, immediate threat, kill the Falcon, then let the Banshees waste time foot slogging towards you. Move on to the next threat, perhaps the Dark Reapers shelling your lines or the Fire Prisms running gunship.

 

There is always ALWAYS more than one way to deal with a threat, and I think using an overpriced unit of Wolf Guard Assault Terminators to counter a cheap unit of Banshees (10 Banshees is only 160 points. An Exarch with some gear only runs an extra 25-30 points and they don't NEED the Exarch against Space Marines) is a huge waste.

 

Use your vehicles to your advantage. Banshees can't hurt vehicles effectively. Blitz up, cover the rear entrance, and Melta the Falcon with everything you've got. Force an emergency disembarkation and the Banshees are automatically Pinned for the next turn. You can even throw two Living Lightnings at it first turn and hope you can get through the AV12, although with Eldar Psychic Powers may not necessarily be the best. If that's not possible, buy time by forcing him to have to deal with your vehicles first before he can unleash his Banshees. Every turn he has to pop a Rhino to get to the squad inside is another you can throw all those missiles at him.

 

 

DV8

[Godhead]

DV8 puts flamers into lists like Mar Bloodaxe does. He uses his WG with combi flamers which I think rocks. Realistically, you only get to use the flamer once a game, twice if you're lucky. So his setup is really efficient. When using the flamer on the landspeeder, just remember that when you move 12 inches, they only hit on 6s. This forces orks to shoot your speeder down and they only hit on 5s then, then they have to roll for AP, and then the damage chart. I have found that for armor 10, landspeers are far more survivable then people give them credit for. It also helps in they way you play them and you must try to protect them as much as you can. You can accomplish this buy putting other targets on the board that forces them to decide what to shoot at. Plus, like I stated earlier, an orks best AT is their power klaws.