Would be a cool model

[Niiai]

A wolf lord , guard and battle leader can take both a combi flamer and a combi melta.

 

Give him a jump pack and mark of the wulfen and I think it would be a cool looking and diverse model. Eather with 2 guns ( a bitt weard) or one huge gun :devil:

[Requiem of the Wolf]

A wolf lord , guard and battle leader can take both a combi flamer and a combi melta.

 

Give him a jump pack and mark of the wulfen and I think it would be a cool looking and diverse model. Eather with 2 guns ( a bitt weard) or one huge gun :devil:

A Combi Weapon would be a good start. put it in one hand,possibly as a kind of Gauntlet to cover one hand,and then use a large crypt ghoul hand for the other hand,with some greenstuff fur along the arm.

[hmk17]

Yup, only if they are wearing Runic or Power Armor.

 

Might want to cannibalize some Sternguard blisters or a Space Marine Commander box. The idea of a guy striding foward with a bolter-esque weapon in each hand brings a smile to my face.

[Requiem of the Wolf]

Yup, only if they are wearing Runic or Power Armor.

 

Might want to cannibalize some Sternguard blisters or a Space Marine Commander box. The idea of a guy striding foward with a bolter-esque weapon in each hand brings a smile to my face.

I have been debating having 5 of my wolf guard modeled with Combi plasma in one hand and combi melta in the other.

[Stormshrug]

I've got a Wolf Guard like that, actually. Combi-Melta and Combi-Flamer.

 

-Stormshrug

[Requiem of the Wolf]

I've got a Wolf Guard like that, actually. Combi-Melta and Combi-Flamer.

 

-Stormshrug

175 points for a first turn kill on any vehicle,solo Character or most of a standard size squad. Plus there is the possibility of them killing two if they don't get assaulted that first turn lol. I have yet to find a real downside to it as long as they got sent after a target either worth more points,or more debilitating to your army.

[Stormshrug]

For the record, I have mine dual-wielding the combi-weapons. It doesn't look too awkward.

 

I considered going the one-gun route too, though. Either could work.

 

-Stormshrug

[DasWolfei]

This is just me and i dont have any rule book handy and slightly tired... what about 2 combi-plasma? 1 one turn. 1 the next??

 

DasWolfei

[Grey Mage]

I think your all crazy :lol:.

 

Seriously, I just hate the idea of fielding a WG without a PW of some kind....

 

But yeah, it could look cool.

[Lord Clinto]

I think one modeled with 2 combi weapons would look really unique, multiples in the same army just screams spam to me. If you could actually fire both bolters in the same turn or have them count as TL I personally would approve of it for multiple WG. My 2 cents.

[Stormshrug]

I think one modeled with 2 combi weapons would look really unique, multiples in the same army just screams spam to me. If you could actually fire both bolters in the same turn or have them count as TL I personally would approve of it for multiple WG. My 2 cents.

 

It's a neat trick, but I agree that it's a bit sub-optimal en masse. A Wolf Claw is a much better buy alongside a Combi-Weapon most of the time.

 

-Stormshrug

[Requiem of the Wolf]

I think one modeled with 2 combi weapons would look really unique, multiples in the same army just screams spam to me. If you could actually fire both bolters in the same turn or have them count as TL I personally would approve of it for multiple WG. My 2 cents.

 

It's a neat trick, but I agree that it's a bit sub-optimal en masse. A Wolf Claw is a much better buy alongside a Combi-Weapon most of the time.

 

-Stormshrug

On anything but a unit intended to die the round after it arrives,I would wholeheartedly agree.

[Grey Mage]

If it dies the round after it arrives then you cant use the second combi-weapon anyways.....

[Requiem of the Wolf]

If it dies the round after it arrives then you cant use the second combi-weapon anyways.....

True,but this opens the option of using the suicide squad against vehicles as well as using it against MC's,IC's, Difficult squads.

[Grey Mage]

How about I rephrase the question...

 

You have to purchase, paint, and then pay the points for this unit. Why would you sacrifice it for just one enemy? Thats like playing checkers, and not playing it well. Is there anything in C:SW that you would equate to a pawn that can be put in a DP?

[Requiem of the Wolf]

How about I rephrase the question...

 

You have to purchase, paint, and then pay the points for this unit. Why would you sacrifice it for just one enemy? Thats like playing checkers, and not playing it well. Is there anything in C:SW that you would equate to a pawn that can be put in a DP?

Well..think about it like this. every unit in your army list,you have a purpose for right? And the bigger point cost units,you tend to build the list around them,at least most people do.

 

As an example...a Land Raider Crusader with 15 Blood claws and a Wolf Priest. Thats a total of 675 points barenaked,that you are relying on to be a deathstar unit to smash a squad you absolutely need smashed and you are relying on that Land Raider to get those blood claws to where they need to be quickly and safely. Now I drop my suicide squad in,they have 6 melta shots to try and wreck that land raider. Chances are good at least a immobilized if not a destroyed.

So not only did my 175 points wreck your 250 points,It also disrupted your battle plans.

 

It is intended to drop down and destroy a higher point cost,integral part of my enemies army. It's attrition,but it works even better in my favor because my army is basically built to work without that 175 points. Even in the case of someone having a 'distraction' unit...losing it on the first turn means his other units are chewed up by the fangs and the rest.

[Niiai]

How about I rephrase the question...

 

You have to purchase, paint, and then pay the points for this unit. Why would you sacrifice it for just one enemy? Thats like playing checkers, and not playing it well. Is there anything in C:SW that you would equate to a pawn that can be put in a DP?

 

Grey, I agree with you. However, per WG pack you can give one of them a mark of the wulfen. Witch works better then a power weapon against non power armour. And he does not loose any attacks in melee because he has two guns. I would agree that a wolf guard with out a melee weaponds upgrade would be bad, but one well placed flamer and a mark of the wulfen would easaly be worth the loss of a power weapon.

[Grey Mage]

How about I rephrase the question...

 

You have to purchase, paint, and then pay the points for this unit. Why would you sacrifice it for just one enemy? Thats like playing checkers, and not playing it well. Is there anything in C:SW that you would equate to a pawn that can be put in a DP?

Well..think about it like this. every unit in your army list,you have a purpose for right? And the bigger point cost units,you tend to build the list around them,at least most people do.

 

As an example...a Land Raider Crusader with 15 Blood claws and a Wolf Priest. Thats a total of 675 points barenaked,that you are relying on to be a deathstar unit to smash a squad you absolutely need smashed and you are relying on that Land Raider to get those blood claws to where they need to be quickly and safely. Now I drop my suicide squad in,they have 6 melta shots to try and wreck that land raider. Chances are good at least a immobilized if not a destroyed.

So not only did my 175 points wreck your 250 points,It also disrupted your battle plans.

 

It is intended to drop down and destroy a higher point cost,integral part of my enemies army. It's attrition,but it works even better in my favor because my army is basically built to work without that 175 points. Even in the case of someone having a 'distraction' unit...losing it on the first turn means his other units are chewed up by the fangs and the rest.

But why treat them as a suicide squad? Would it not be better to drop in a 165pt dreadnaught with a MM, directly in front of the raider, and MM it to its face? At the least the raider will have to go around the not insignficant bulk of a DP+Dread, and at best you might obliterate the lot of them. And unlike 6 WG, an unsupported dread can usually hold out for a while before help arrives... PA needs support now.

 

Though for the record, I dont normally build my list around 1 death star unit, and I find armies built like that are incredibly vulnerable and do not lead to any kind of adaptable tactics... for some of the same reasons youve pointed out here.

 

How about I rephrase the question...

 

You have to purchase, paint, and then pay the points for this unit. Why would you sacrifice it for just one enemy? Thats like playing checkers, and not playing it well. Is there anything in C:SW that you would equate to a pawn that can be put in a DP?

 

Grey, I agree with you. However, per WG pack you can give one of them a mark of the wulfen. Witch works better then a power weapon against non power armour. And he does not loose any attacks in melee because he has two guns. I would agree that a wolf guard with out a melee weaponds upgrade would be bad, but one well placed flamer and a mark of the wulfen would easaly be worth the loss of a power weapon.

Yeah, that could be effective. It is 25pts for the three options, but thats not to bad. Im not much a fan of MotW, but its certainly an option :).

[Requiem of the Wolf]

But why treat them as a suicide squad? Would it not be better to drop in a 165pt dreadnaught with a MM, directly in front of the raider, and MM it to its face? At the least the raider will have to go around the not insignficant bulk of a DP+Dread, and at best you might obliterate the lot of them. And unlike 6 WG, an unsupported dread can usually hold out for a while before help arrives... PA needs support now.

 

Though for the record, I dont normally build my list around 1 death star unit, and I find armies built like that are incredibly vulnerable and do not lead to any kind of adaptable tactics... for some of the same reasons youve pointed out here.

 

Yeah, that could be effective. It is 25pts for the three options, but thats not to bad. Im not much a fan of MotW, but its certainly an option :).

Why treat them as a suicide squad? Because I have run out of other ways to get rid of Mephiston before he comes in and rips apart a squad or character. Because I have wracked my brain for weeks on end and failed to come up with any clever plan or combination of troops that would render Mephiston into the steaming pile of bloody chunks I need him to be in to stand a chance at beating this guy,let alone tabling him as a "Stop being a douche" message.

 

Whats worse is that for the last week I have been kicking myself on a almost daily basis...because I know I am a decent enough general that I should be able to come up with a counter for someone doing the same thing EVERY game. he fights in the same way,doesn't change anything...now granted it works...but still..It sucks to realize that no matter how clever you are normally...some times you just hit a brick wall.

[Grey Mage]

But why treat them as a suicide squad? Would it not be better to drop in a 165pt dreadnaught with a MM, directly in front of the raider, and MM it to its face? At the least the raider will have to go around the not insignficant bulk of a DP+Dread, and at best you might obliterate the lot of them. And unlike 6 WG, an unsupported dread can usually hold out for a while before help arrives... PA needs support now.

 

Though for the record, I dont normally build my list around 1 death star unit, and I find armies built like that are incredibly vulnerable and do not lead to any kind of adaptable tactics... for some of the same reasons youve pointed out here.

 

Yeah, that could be effective. It is 25pts for the three options, but thats not to bad. Im not much a fan of MotW, but its certainly an option :P.

Why treat them as a suicide squad? Because I have run out of other ways to get rid of Mephiston before he comes in and rips apart a squad or character. Because I have wracked my brain for weeks on end and failed to come up with any clever plan or combination of troops that would render Mephiston into the steaming pile of bloody chunks I need him to be in to stand a chance at beating this guy,let alone tabling him as a "Stop being a douche" message.

 

Whats worse is that for the last week I have been kicking myself on a almost daily basis...because I know I am a decent enough general that I should be able to come up with a counter for someone doing the same thing EVERY game. he fights in the same way,doesn't change anything...now granted it works...but still..It sucks to realize that no matter how clever you are normally...some times you just hit a brick wall.

Then stop trying to be clever and just be solid.

 

The list you described in that instance was Mephiston, a Dread, some assault marines, and a priest yes?

 

Take some Grey Hunters and some Long Fangs, blow up the Dreadnaught and cut down his troops, then rip Mephiston apart with plasma fire.

 

There is no brick wall, and if hes cockey enough to never change his tactics then by all the gods hes easily beaten. I wish I was blessed with opponents so stupid.

 

1250 it was yes? I gaurantee this list could take it:

 

Rune Priest- Chooser- 110pts. Tempests Wrath, Murderous Hurricane

 

5 Wolf Scouts- Meltagun, Powerweapon- 100pts.

 

10 Grey Hunters- 2xPlasma Rifle, Powerfist, Wolf Totem, Plasma Pistol, Rhino- 245pts.

10 Grey Hunters- 2xPlasma Rifle, Powerfist, Wolf Totem, Plasma Pistol, Rhino- 245pts.

 

Landspeeder Typhoon- 90pts.

 

5 Long Fangs- 2x Lascannon, 2x Missile Launcher- Las/Plas Razorback- 220pts.

5 Long Fangs- 2s Lascannon, 2x Plasmacannon- Las/Plas Razorback- 240pts.

1250pts.

 

If you go into a battle looking to lose your troops youve done half your enemies job for them. Always go in with the intention of taking no casualties and allowing no survivors and work your way back down.

 

Use the scouts and the Speeder to take down any heavy weapon teams he might have, use your long fangs as needed but make that dread your main target. The Rune Priest casts Tempests Wrath each turn as needed. If the enemy has no artillery then redirect the speeder at the assault marines and the scouts at the dread.

The Grey Hunters stand and hold, with five plasma shots a peice at short range or two at long they should put a significant dent into the enemy, FNP or no FNP. The Long Fangs should be able to splitfire their lascannons at the Dread until its down and throw the MLs and PCs at the troops. Remember- S8 doesnt allow FNP.

 

The Long Fangs create quite a firebase, and the GHs in rhinos are mobile enough to allow you to take objective based games just as well as KP games. If all else fails wipe him off the board- Annihilation is always a Victory Condition.

[Requiem of the Wolf]

The reason he hasn't needed to change his tactics in 12 games running is that he just simply annihilates every opponent he comes across.

 

I tried similar to that list. The Dread popped smoke the first round,so I had to get 13 on a armor pen AND deal with a 4+ save. By his second round It was in the middle of Njal and the squad he was with. While Mephiston had caught my Wolf Lord on the way around to assault his jump troops,and ended up killing him. I have to stop the two major threats before they can get to my lines. Now it is possible that the 2 squads of long fangs will deal with the Dread. That still leaves Mephiston. Since pretty much all my heavy firepower has to be going at the dread to make sure I take it out,chances are good he will be cherry when he comes in to fight. Now it is possible that I could plasma gun him down from the two rhinos. I have considered that possibility. But with him having a 19+ inch assault range it would be difficult to pull off properly since as far as I know I have a 18 inch range (including rhino) that I can get for rapidfire. Unless I'm missing something and you can move 12 inches and still fire from the fire points of a rhino. Now assuming I can get him in rapidfire range without having to worry about him assaulting me first,I could put enough of a hurt on him that it would only cost me 5 troops to take him in HTH. I can't come up with a reasonable situation that has me killing Mephiston without suffering some severe losses first.

 

His assault troops are bad enough but If i can meet them on fairly even ground,combined with still having my Psyker I am not particularly worried. Once they are within the bubble of Tempest's wrath I can get close enough to do what I need to do.Now..I considered instead dropping a Dreadnaught,but the problems with that are It doesn't have the same amount of firepower that the 6 Wg do on a 1 turn basis. Plus there is no guarantee that it would live any longer then the wolfguard would since it would have to expose armor 10 to either a pair of Predators,or to the Dread with the MM. so 4 lascannon shots,2 autocannon shots at AV 10 is pretty much 3 penning shots. Which means that the Dread will end up messed up at the least. And Mephiston could allways charge it after it was shot to hell,and then use 5 s10 hits to kill it pretty safely. Now if I run it forward to intercept the Dread,get it into hand to hand chances are good I could disable the other Dread before Meph killed it. But it isn't the dread thats the real problem,as I think two squads of Fangs is enough firepower to deal with the problem.I don't particularly like the idea of using them as throw aways either. I know I could set them up in Term armor instead,which would make them alot harder to kill. But then I realize what would be heading their way on his turn and I realize it wouldn't likely help matters. Anything that ends a turn on his side of the board is almost guaranteed to be shot down,unless there are alot of them. So essentially what I am doing is giving up 2KP and 175 points,for 1KP and 250 points. Not counting the amount of shooting those two KP's will absorb,thus keeping them off my Rhinos and LF's for another turn.

 

And the best part of this set up,Is that if its in a position where I can neither drop in to shoot Meph or one of his squads,I drop them in my deployment area,run them behind a Rhino and keep them ready to spring out and blast the hell out of whoever gets closest first.

[Grey Mage]

1) If hes close enough to assault you then hes close enough to be affected by the runic weapon, wich could chop his effective range down to 18" maximum by denying wings of sanguinius.

2) You cant fire from the fire ports, but you CAN disembark and fire. Mephiston doesnt have the power to gaurantee the death of a full 10 man squad before they can hit back with the powerfist, and again you can try to keep the RP nearby to cut down on his reliability.

3) If he does use Wings hell have to roll for all of his movement because of tempests wrath, meaning hes incredibly unlikely to get the assault off. Remember, its not wether he starts the move inside its range, but wether or not hes going to end it within 24" of the RP.

4) 4 Lascannons should get you two penetrating hits a turn, but if you prefer I think it unlikely that you are unable to see mephiston from behind a standard Ironclad chassi- if you can see any part of his body hes a legal target, 4+ cover save is certainly easier to take on then I 7 in CC is it not? If thats the case, hit it with all 4 lascannons and both Plasma Cannons, and use the razorbacks on the Dread if you need, or finish him off if your close.

5) Deploy farther back and you should have three good rounds of shooting before he hits, one of wich is rapid fire. I think you can take him.

[Requiem of the Wolf]

1) If hes close enough to assault you then hes close enough to be affected by the runic weapon, wich could chop his effective range down to 18" maximum by denying wings of sanguinius.

2) You cant fire from the fire ports, but you CAN disembark and fire. Mephiston doesnt have the power to gaurantee the death of a full 10 man squad before they can hit back with the powerfist, and again you can try to keep the RP nearby to cut down on his reliability.

3) If he does use Wings hell have to roll for all of his movement because of tempests wrath, meaning hes incredibly unlikely to get the assault off. Remember, its not wether he starts the move inside its range, but wether or not hes going to end it within 24" of the RP.

4) 4 Lascannons should get you two penetrating hits a turn, but if you prefer I think it unlikely that you are unable to see mephiston from behind a standard Ironclad chassi- if you can see any part of his body hes a legal target, 4+ cover save is certainly easier to take on then I 7 in CC is it not? If thats the case, hit it with all 4 lascannons and both Plasma Cannons, and use the razorbacks on the Dread if you need, or finish him off if your close.

5) Deploy farther back and you should have three good rounds of shooting before he hits, one of wich is rapid fire. I think you can take him.

Actually Mephiston doesn't have to worry about Tempest's wrath. It only affects Jump Infantry. and he is normal infantry,even when using Wings of Sanguinius.

I am thinking that Lascannons instead of plasma cannons might be better,as less chance to scatter,but..it is a good point. And no matter how far back I deploy,he allways deploys at the maximum amount allowed...so he has to cover about 24 inchs to get into combat with me. Since he pops Sanguinius just outside of that 24 inch range...he flys 12,runs 1-6 and then assaults 6. The point about the 4+ save is a good one though.maybe lascannons on Mephy and the rest on the Dread. It seems that he was also screwing me by letting his furioso dread have fleet. Why couldn't the plasma gun's shoot from the Rhino Fire points?

I am also not debating the ability of a 10 man squad to get some hits and wounds, but not likely to be enough for a kill if he hasn't been softened up allready.

[Grey Mage]

Because you cant shoot from a vehicle that moved more than 6". Its what protects us from the DE.

 

And of course hed have to be softened up already, hes a greater daemon after all.

 

As for tempests wrath he moves "as if equiped with a jumppack" models equiped with jump packs count TWs area of effect as Difficult and Dangerous... so should he.

[Requiem of the Wolf]

Because you cant shoot from a vehicle that moved more than 6". Its what protects us from the DE.

 

And of course hed have to be softened up already, hes a greater daemon after all.

 

As for tempests wrath he moves "as if equiped with a jumppack" models equiped with jump packs count TWs area of effect as Difficult and Dangerous... so should he.

But the problem with that is he acts as if equipped with a jump pack,and the effect says it affects jump infantry. Unfortunately I allready tried that,and he pointed out the difference. And unlike many of his actions,this one was actually supported by the rule book.