Dropnought

[n00b in need]

ok so in all the games i've played (around 15) i've taken my dreadnought about 2/3rds of the time, and he always gets destroyed first turn. no matter what i do it seems, my opponent always seems to just get lucky, even with extra armour he doesn't last long. now i've wanted to drop pod him in for awhile now but i'm always afraid that if i do its just a total waste of points cause he'd prolly get himself blown to pieces before he does anything, yet hes to slow to be of any real use (i have the assault on black reach dreadnought with the multi-melta) he's only got 2 feet to shoot at something, while my opponents heavy support usually blows him away before he even is in range of anything to shoot at. i'm just wondering if you guys think i'm doing something wrong, or if i just get the most lucky opponents ever? should i keep trying him? or move on?

[Grey Mage]

Its possibly not their luck, but yours you know... some people just dont do well with a particular unit and theres no real reason for it.

 

It would help to know what targets you usually send him after, and what usually kills him.

[wolf363839]

I have played numerous games using both a "hellfire" dreadnought as well as the drop pod multi-melta dread. I have since replaced him with a scout pack. Unfortunately, armor 12 is just too vulnerable. Had the genius's at GW bothered to give us Ironclads, that would be a different story. Dropping a dread near the enemy lines becomes too dangerous to ignore, so they nuke you. Hanging back with a hellfire dread doesn't possess enough firepower to make it worth while. Just my two cents.

[Emperor's Scourge]

Hack off its arm. Replace it with a longer range weapon. Problem solved?

[Blarmb]

A lone anything deepstriking into the heart of the enemy first turn is going to get blown to smithereens. You can drop them in pairs, in which case one will likely be left standing. Alternatively you can use something like a Rifleman dread, and use the drop pod to position it looking at side armor. It's actually quite useful since if you're going first the opponent could have deployed his armor to deny you your best angles of attack, or if you're going second simply moved it that way. With a long range weapon and the flexibility of a pod you can mitigate that somewhat.

[Grey Mage]

But Dreadnaughts are so much more effective when you can punch things in the face with them.

[Emperor's Scourge]

My plasma cannon Dread that sometimes counts as Bjorn is pretty damn effective.

[Simo429]

I think it depends what a drop pod is for

 

if its the only thing you are podding and you dont mind the sacrificial lamb it can be quite good especially if it can survive for more than a turn (especially against a shooty army) because it will dictate what their plans are for as long as they survive because they cant just bypass it and in that time the rest of your army can move forward

 

however to use bjorn would be suicide because when dead you'd have either placed another objective in your enemies deployment zone or you need to get some friendlies next to it so it doesnt give away three kill points

[WG Vrox]

I agree with Blarmb, you have to provide him support on a drop, this means having at least 3 DP in your army so you can get 2 DP on turn 1. Allowing your opponent to focus all his firepower on one dread is a sure way to loose a dread. 2 Ven Dreads on turn 1 have been used very effectively against me, but thats a lot of points to devote to 2 units, however if your looking for a diversion unit you cant get much better. I suggest EA and HF upgrades. Follow the 2 DP dreads up with some fast units and scouts using BEL and you can overwhelm your opponent pretty quickly. a Land Raider Crusader is a pretty nice mech to push toward the dreads and provide them support. With all the AP attention on the dreads the LRC should have a nice easy time getting its payload through your enemies front line or forces him to split his AP fire amongst multiple targets

 

But basically if you are going to do the solo dread in a DP just make sure you land on your enemy's flanks where there is no MM or Melta. Target some nice soft sniper scouts or the like, something he can easily handle and move on into the fray.

 

With a normal dread the WTN is a nice upgrade, hitting on a 3+ greatly increases the odds that those 2 attacks will hit something in CC. Dont foreget your dread gets to roll for counter charge.

 

WG Vrox

[commander alexander]

I have always had good luck with dreads. I almost always go with a plasma cannon + heavy flamer dread, and it will kill pretty much anything. But if you are counting on the dread being able to do something, you need to present some other targets. I would have at least two other pods of grey hunters with him, and some other "scary" units within your opponents range, or at least close enough to draw their attention.

[the jeske]

ok , not geting something here . first of all yes it is better to spam LF then take dreads and it is better to run 2 dreads then one and they should never slog it [unless I dont know you play GK and there are no options for range support and drop pods at the same time]. the SW dreads are worse because they cant use vulkan for the important re roll , but aside of that they work just like in any other sm list . land blow tap two transports , trying to highst cost and/uber unit transports first and then they eat fire power from the opposing army and die . But in itself that aint bad to destroy a single dread they still have to move [because your LoS blocking with the pod] and put 3 melta shots to be sure that it dies [because if it doesnt it means one more smoked/shaken/stuned transport/tank or a unit tarpited for the rest of the game].

[Vassakov]

There are 3 aspects to the problem here - the fact you are only running one Dread, you are only using one Drop Pod and you don't seem to have a plan for what your Dread should be doing.

 

Now, I must confess a little interest here: I have 6 Dreadnoughts. Mostly they serve me rather well.

 

Now, if you have 1 Dread with a Multi Melta, your best bet is to buy him a Pod and drop him near the nastiest enemy tank you can spot and try and Melta it. After all, at 140pts you can potential nail a LR or 200+ point Leman Russ, not to mention using the Pod to block LoS and creating a major threat for the enemy to deal with. If he takes out a tank, then absorbs a chunk of fire from more valuable units - he's done his job.

 

On the other hand, if you want to use him in a more survivable role you might want to consider sending GH and other Dreads, and maybe even WG TDA in Pod's with him, in order to create a significant threat base in the enemy lines.

[asmodai650]

I run deathwing as my primary army, but I am about to start remaking my space wolf army. With that said, here's how I use my MM dread: as a roadblock. Even though mine comes in after turn one (older codex rules), I can picture him having the same role if he came in on turn 1. Try to get him as close to an enemy tank you want destroyed or unit that you want tied up. Do not just throw him into anything, and use the drop pods rules to get him close and always put the rear armour up next to the drop pod.

[Prot]

Since I came back to good guy marines, I haven't had dreadnaughts work at all.... the only one I can see working is Bjorn. Otherwise, most of the conversation I see here revolves around a cannonball mentality. There are SO many other units that are better/cheaper cannon balls. I'm not sure why you'd bother using a dread in this way.

 

Dreads are fragile...ours are fragile; they are also dangerous and therefore, high priority targets. Taking two in a game, in pods? Just to give a 'chance' that one will survive? Ouch. Why not just start the game telling your opponent he can have some free kill points and save yourself the points? That's a nasty way to start a game IMHO.

[Schertenleib]

As I'm still fairly new I currently have only one DP and one Dread. I have had a good bit of luck running the DP/ Melta Dread supported by a MM Landspeeder. I drop the pod near a big threat. I use the pod as cover and take a shot with the MM. I then have the MM speeder running for support and three rhinos rushing the other flank.

[wiplash]

upgrade the stormbolter to a heavy flamer, then change the main weapon to a plasma cannon

 

then get imperial armour apocalypse 2

(or get hold of a pdf/printoff if you are playing in a friendly environment)

then you can purchase the lucius pattern drop pod

for 15 points more (than a standard drop pod i think) but without the stormbolter you can now assault from the drop pod :P

this can be used for any dreadnought that would normally be able to take a drop pod

 

havent tried this out yet but looks ausome

[the jeske]

or get hold of a pdf/printoff if you are playing in a friendly environment) then you can purchase the lucius pattern drop pod

ok realy dont angry a lot about other players say . But explain to me . The whole IA legal stuff is based around the idea that people buy IA books and FW models and everyone should be able to play what they buy with . The argument that some armies get close to nothing in FW books [specialy not stuff you can compare to 2/3 BA or any other sm dreads landing on turn one and charging out of them] is offten made void because of that too [not that I agree] . And here you , like a lot of other people I seen try to use FW stuff, say you dont need to buy FW stuff or the books . Just take a normal drop pod[or better yet counts as with a bottle of coke] and have a go with it , am I undestanding this righ ?

 

 

This is why am dead against IA stuff in normal games.

[commander alexander]

the jeske...... What on earth are you talking about?

Honestly I don't know how or why people are having so many problems with taking a dreadnought. When I take a dreadnought, of any kind, I always seem to have good luck with it. Other people have said to do things like use the DP for cover, which is a legitimate suggestion. I prefer to kit my dreadnoughts with heavy flamers and plasma cannons over multi meltas. With any vehicle, other than a land raider, you can glance with a plasma cannon. If there aren't any scary tanks, I go for an anti infantry role, and I always deploy behind cover from any major threats to it.

[Prot]

On using a drop pod for cover... I find I have trouble getting 50% of the model covered by the frame of an opened drop pod.... how often do you find you can use this tactic successfully?

[JMac]

Maybe your its your tactics rather than the actual dreadnought.

 

Of course he will get slaughtered if you drop him behind enemy lines in round two. A dropnought should be your last element of surprise. Bring him late in the game when forces are whittled down but you still need to smash their last line of armor.

 

If you need him earlier, just be sure to drop him behind cover or with other forces.

 

Overall, the idea of the drop pod is speed, and we all know dreadnoughts need it desperately. But too fast is a problem; so just be sure to play tactical with it rather than a reckless smash and slash option.

[Prot]

Maybe your its your tactics rather than the actual dreadnought.

 

Of course he will get slaughtered if you drop him behind enemy lines in round two. A dropnought should be your last element of surprise. Bring him late in the game when forces are whittled down but you still need to smash their last line of armor.

 

If you need him earlier, just be sure to drop him behind cover or with other forces.

 

Overall, the idea of the drop pod is speed, and we all know dreadnoughts need it desperately. But too fast is a problem; so just be sure to play tactical with it rather than a reckless smash and slash option.

 

No, not to sound arrogant, it's not my tactics. You're assuming there's a choice in -when- you drop the dreadnaught, and there isn't. If you take one pod, it's going first. If you want an 'option' (but let's not confuse the word option with choice) then you need more than one pod. Now we're starting to get into an area of 'How many points do you want to use to support an idea'?

 

If you're going with a drop pod theme, great. Otherwise I find most opponents are smart enough to know an easy kill point, that can't be ignored. At armour 12 it's squishy. And again, it's too dangerous to ignore, so again.... I'm not sure where you can go with this option.

 

Don't get me wrong I like the idea, and I wish it worked. For instance, in my several attempts I think the closest I got to making it work was to have a Grey Hunter squad with dual Melta's drop pod in first. This acted as my 'honey pot'. Sure enough it would draw attention, and then I'd hope the Dread came in at the right time... again leaving a bit to chance. This was a 'decent' One-Two punch that worked maybe 50 % of the time, but too many armies, (especially mech IG, and Eldar) are wary of such tactics. They will kite you typically in this scenario. There's a lot of mech in 5th. There's a lot of 'my whole army is in reserve' in 5th as well.

 

It's just been my experience the tactics involved don't really pan out in a competitive environment, but if you're kicking arse with it, my hat's off to you. I typically play 1500 pts, there's little room for throw away units. I could see experimenting with this much more at 1850 and above.

[wiplash]

or get hold of a pdf/printoff if you are playing in a friendly environment) then you can purchase the lucius pattern drop pod

ok realy dont angry a lot about other players say . But explain to me . The whole IA legal stuff is based around the idea that people buy IA books and FW models and everyone should be able to play what they buy with . The argument that some armies get close to nothing in FW books [specialy not stuff you can compare to 2/3 BA or any other sm dreads landing on turn one and charging out of them] is offten made void because of that too [not that I agree] . And here you , like a lot of other people I seen try to use FW stuff, say you dont need to buy FW stuff or the books . Just take a normal drop pod[or better yet counts as with a bottle of coke] and have a go with it , am I undestanding this righ ?

 

 

This is why am dead against IA stuff in normal games.

 

i see what you are saying - why arent we content with whats in our own codex's right?

but it is an option, you may not want to use this but others will have no problem

 

and this isnt exactly something extreme like a flyer or something, i mean both the valkyrie and night spinner were IA models until recently

 

EDIT~: What is the difference between facing a drop pod you have never faced before and playing against an army or a squad you have never played against before anyways, its not as if the rules for this drop pod is so CRAZY

[the jeske]

What on earth are you talking about?

do you know what a lucius patern drop pod does ?

 

 

i see what you are saying - why arent we content with whats in our own codex's right?

but it is an option, you may not want to use this but others will have no problem

 

and this isnt exactly something extreme like a flyer or something, i mean both the valkyrie and night spinner were IA models until recently

 

EDIT~: What is the difference between facing a drop pod you have never faced before and playing against an army or a squad you have never played against before anyways, its not as if the rules for this drop pod is so CRAZY

 

and that is why using a stolen rules [pdf] or printed ones [so no book owned] is okey ? how offten do you play against people without codex or with stuff that is printed ?

 

as the extrem goes . am not sure about it but getting around the bad side of drop poding [cant assault] with a walker [str 10 hiting on back side] for 30 points more [2 pods] is more then good.

 

And there is no army I have not played before .

[Blarmb]

What on earth are you talking about?

do you know what a lucius patern drop pod does ?

 

 

i see what you are saying - why arent we content with whats in our own codex's right?

but it is an option, you may not want to use this but others will have no problem

 

and this isnt exactly something extreme like a flyer or something, i mean both the valkyrie and night spinner were IA models until recently

 

EDIT~: What is the difference between facing a drop pod you have never faced before and playing against an army or a squad you have never played against before anyways, its not as if the rules for this drop pod is so CRAZY

 

and that is why using a stolen rules [pdf] or printed ones [so no book owned] is okey ? how offten do you play against people without codex or with stuff that is printed ?

 

as the extrem goes . am not sure about it but getting around the bad side of drop poding [cant assault] with a walker [str 10 hiting on back side] for 30 points more [2 pods] is more then good.

 

And there is no army I have not played before .

 

Honestly, if the opponent is okay with it there is nothing wrong with using nonstandard units. Heck the rulebook says so itself

 

Warhammer 40,000 players like many different htings about the game. Some see it as purely competitive ....while others just love writing their own rules - devising new missions creating special characters or even changing the main rules of the game!"

 

Outside of tournaments, I think the spirit of the game really isn't meant to be "Okay. We're going to do these things this one way, that's it and if anyone ever wants to deviate they're bad". If it's okay to make things up out of thin air if the people you're playing with are cool with it, I think it's certainly fine to use some alternative material put out by FW.

 

It's all about having fun, however you do that. One guy in our group just loves to make up crazy scenarios to play that are really nothing at all like any of the standard missions. They're almost never balanced, and almost always a little confusing and wind up making holes in the rules we have to deal with on the spot. However generally have fun playing them and that's all that really counts.

[Valerian]

and that is why using a stolen rules [pdf] or printed ones [so no book owned] is okey ? how offten do you play against people without codex or with stuff that is printed ?

 

the jeske,

 

Just FYI, the Imperial Armour 2 Update .pdf document is freely available from the Forge World website for anyone to download (just like any FAQ document from the GW website, for example). Wiplash isn't talking about taking advantage of illegal .pdf copies of rulebooks/documents available from some file-sharing website.

 

I could provide a link directly to it, but I think that is against the forum rules. If you go to the Books section of the Forge World site, and click on Imperial Armour Volume 2, there is a link at the bottom for the version 1.3 update.

 

V