Drop Pod Ramps?

[Isryion]

I'm wondering how most people play the ramps of the drop pods once the pod has landed. I could see it being difficult terrain, but at the same time that makes it a cumbersome vehicle as well and tough to manuever after landing. Do you just ignore them? Obviously people who glue theirs shut do. Most of the people I have been playing with are new to this edition or new over the past few months, so we aren't really sure. The more I think about it the more I think they should be ignored. Thanks for any input and I apologize if this seems as a silly question.

 

The big reason for this question s is that I'm considering placing a locator beacon on one and it doesn't make a lot of sense if the ramps, when deployed, actually count as difficult terrain...

[Angelus Mortifer]

My group always discounts them as the "fluff" says the doors "blow open" implying they just blow outwards to make disembarking simpler. Whilst they're still attached to the model, we only count the hull for the purposes of cover and terrain. That's our take on it anyway...

[Whitefireinferno]

Yeah we play that the ramps are clear terrain and only the main hull is Los blocking and such

[Grey Mage]

They are, as the BRB says, entirely decorative.

[Isryion]

They are, as the BRB says, entirely decorative.

 

Thanks everyone. Where does the BRB say this? Or is it part of the vehicle rules? I missed that.

[mysteriousmaskedmystery]

we play them as clear terrain as i understand it, but we do play true LOS through it, and also if the doors are glued some people insist your men can't disembark, which is normally ignored, however i am under the impression that the consensus is that if the doors are glued shut you can't fire the SB since you can't draw LOS from it which to me is understandable.

[Dingareth]

Just glue them shut. It solves all your problems, and provides a bit of cover for the guys getting out.

[Droofus]

But don't forget that you can are still trace LOS through the pod. It irritates me when people say I can't simply because they've glued the doors shut. I understand that it makes them easy to transport and I have no problem with that, but the idea that it would grant some in-game advantage by plopping down a LOS-blocking pillar is just silly.

[wookielips]

i am personally of the opinion that, 5th ed being "true LOS", my opponent should have a laser pointer or some other method of drawing LOS, and prove he can actually get LOS through it. otherwise, no dice. i mean, thats the rule, right?

[Prosedragon]

The BRB doesn't say it anywhere...just because something is the common consensus doesn't make it the official rule. If you want the opposite perspective on this, the petals are part of the model, and therefore cannot be moved through - the upside to this I'd that if they are part of the model, you can deploy within 2" of any part of any petal. This is because it's an open topped vehicle. People don't like that rule, so they say it's wrong until enough people have believed it and eventually their interpretation, that only the hull of a drop pod counts as the vehicle, becomes The Rule. I think The Rule makes sense fluff wise, but that doesn't translate into rules.

[Frosty the Pyro]

The BRB doesn't say it anywhere...just because something is the common consensus doesn't make it the official rule. If you want the opposite perspective on this, the petals are part of the model, and therefore cannot be moved through - the upside to this I'd that if they are part of the model, you can deploy within 2" of any part of any petal. This is because it's an open topped vehicle. People don't like that rule, so they say it's wrong until enough people have believed it and eventually their interpretation, that only the hull of a drop pod counts as the vehicle, becomes The Rule. I think The Rule makes sense fluff wise, but that doesn't translate into rules.

 

Pg 60, shooting at vehicles, you can only draw LOS to the hull and turrets, everything else is ignored.

[Droofus]

i am personally of the opinion that, 5th ed being "true LOS", my opponent should have a laser pointer or some other method of drawing LOS, and prove he can actually get LOS through it. otherwise, no dice. i mean, thats the rule, right?

 

 

Right, but the rules also state that the "hatches are blown". I'm okay with people gluing the doors for convenience so long as they understand I can see through the top part (with the understanding that a cover save is given to whatever I'm shooting at on the other side).

[Grey Mage]

i am personally of the opinion that, 5th ed being "true LOS", my opponent should have a laser pointer or some other method of drawing LOS, and prove he can actually get LOS through it. otherwise, no dice. i mean, thats the rule, right?

 

 

Right, but the rules also state that the "hatches are blown". I'm okay with people gluing the doors for convenience so long as they understand I can see through the top part (with the understanding that a cover save is given to whatever I'm shooting at on the other side).

How do you get the little explosives in their anyways? I never could do it.

[Dingareth]

i am personally of the opinion that, 5th ed being "true LOS", my opponent should have a laser pointer or some other method of drawing LOS, and prove he can actually get LOS through it. otherwise, no dice. i mean, thats the rule, right?

 

 

Right, but the rules also state that the "hatches are blown". I'm okay with people gluing the doors for convenience so long as they understand I can see through the top part (with the understanding that a cover save is given to whatever I'm shooting at on the other side).

 

If you can see through my Drop Pod with the doors glued shut, then by all means shoot at what's on the other side. Just warn me in advance so that I can get my lead apron, you X-ray vision freak.

 

Really though, if you can see them then shoot them, if you can't because I glued the doors shut, then too bad, I'm not dealing with your "Well I would be able to shoot..." nonsense. On the flip side, it means I can't shoot through my own Drop Pods, they block LoS equally. Also, the rules never state that you have to open the doors, that's in a paragraph above the rules, detailing the fluff. If you argue that you can shoot through the doors of my Drop Pod, I'll be arguing that I can shoot through your Rhinos, you just glued the doors up, rather than down, so you get a cover save.

 

Simply put, if you can't see the model you can't shoot it.

 

Also, good to see you here Doug!

[Aarkon]

i am personally of the opinion that, 5th ed being "true LOS", my opponent should have a laser pointer or some other method of drawing LOS, and prove he can actually get LOS through it. otherwise, no dice. i mean, thats the rule, right?

 

 

Right, but the rules also state that the "hatches are blown". I'm okay with people gluing the doors for convenience so long as they understand I can see through the top part (with the understanding that a cover save is given to whatever I'm shooting at on the other side).

 

If you can see through my Drop Pod with the doors glued shut, then by all means shoot at what's on the other side. Just warn me in advance so that I can get my lead apron, you X-ray vision freak.

 

Really though, if you can see them then shoot them, if you can't because I glued the doors shut, then too bad, I'm not dealing with your "Well I would be able to shoot..." nonsense. On the flip side, it means I can't shoot through my own Drop Pods, they block LoS equally. Also, the rules never state that you have to open the doors, that's in a paragraph above the rules, detailing the fluff. If you argue that you can shoot through the doors of my Drop Pod, I'll be arguing that I can shoot through your Rhinos, you just glued the doors up, rather than down, so you get a cover save.

 

Simply put, if you can't see the model you can't shoot it.

 

Also, good to see you here Doug!

 

That would fall under modeling for advantage and at least in our play group and tournaments would get you laughed off the table for even suggesting your idea. It is the same with the forgeworld drop pods that have fully detailed insides. Even players in our area that own these let players see through them.

[Grey Mage]

That would fall under modeling for advantage and at least in our play group and tournaments would get you laughed off the table for even suggesting your idea. It is the same with the forgeworld drop pods that have fully detailed insides. Even players in our area that own these let players see through them.

None of my vehicles open. Not one.

 

I hate painting the insides of my vehicles. Its alot of fine detail work in an cramped enviroment and Im not that good of a painter anyways.

 

Then we come to the issue where the ramps are purely decorative- theyre not needed for deployment since its an open topped vehicle, and they dont do anything about anyones movement, or take up any table space.

 

I do not open my drop pod doors, most of them are glued shut once Im done painting, and I wont allow people to shoot through them any more than an ork player will let me shoot through the door on the side of his trukk.

 

There is no RAW allowing you to shoot through it. While you cannot target the wings of a daemon prince who is otherwise obscured from veiw those same wings can most certainly block LOS to units behind them. This is no different.

[Koremu]

If they open they can be used for Cover by the departing Infantry. If they don't open, they block LOS through the Pod.

[Dingareth]

I don't know what kind of Marines you have, but on my normal ones, Drop Pod doors don't even come up to their ankles. Much less so on my newer armies, not that I've started basing them on cork.

 

Also, when the Vanilla Dex came out I emailed John Spencer on this, and he agree with what I posted above. It's not much, but it's enough for my group. I'll be glad to forward it to anyone who'd like a look.

[Stolid Fox]

Just curious, for those arguing you can't shoot through the drop pod if the doors are sealed shut: do you also never allow the weapon inside the droppod to fire, since it would be obscured on all sides by its own hull?

[Grey Mage]

Just curious, for those arguing you can't shoot through the drop pod if the doors are sealed shut: do you also never allow the weapon inside the droppod to fire, since it would be obscured on all sides by its own hull?

Yep, pretty much.

[Valerian]

Just curious, for those arguing you can't shoot through the drop pod if the doors are sealed shut: do you also never allow the weapon inside the droppod to fire, since it would be obscured on all sides by its own hull?

Yep, pretty much.

 

Which is why you should model your Storm Bolter on the top of your glued up Drop Pod instead of inside.

 

V

[thade]

Just curious, for those arguing you can't shoot through the drop pod if the doors are sealed shut: do you also never allow the weapon inside the droppod to fire, since it would be obscured on all sides by its own hull?

Yep, pretty much.

 

Which is why you should model your Storm Bolter on the top of your glued up Drop Pod instead of inside.

 

V

 

I hope this is not a serious suggestion. :D

 

RAW the hatches are blown open. If you modeled it such that the doors can't open, congratulations: your model is illegal and can't be fielded.

 

...

 

See how dumb that sounds?

 

If your doors don't open, pretend that they do, for the sake of sportsmanship and the way the game is supposed to work. How do your models exit anyway if the doors don't blow open? Not a problem you say? Then allow people to trace LOS thru it =P as they allow you to exit it.

 

I built my first Drop Pod such that the harness structure magnetizes in and can be easily removed so I can use it as a Dread Drop Pod. Since the Dread can't fit out through the petal-doors, he just punches his way out...so I have two of the petals set to easily come off and go back on. For those of you that don't go to this level of modeling/painting, accept our forgiveness and accept your 4+ cover save as I shoot your models through it.

[Zynk Kaladin]

I agree with thade on this. I mean its kind of a lame if I couldn't shoot through your pod, but somehow by magic your models can get out of it. I mean I could model a box over my space marine's base and say you can't draw LOS on it. That's definitely not how the marine is meant to be modeled and played...

 

But then again as long as you tell your opponent before the game and you two agree I guess its ok.

[Valerian]

Which is why you should model your Storm Bolter on the top of your glued up Drop Pod instead of inside.

 

V

 

 

I hope this is not a serious suggestion. ;)

 

It is very much a serious suggestion. Allow me to give an explanation - I bought my resin/mdf "drop pods" off of eBay from an entreprenour who had started making them since GW/Citadel hadn't yet started to (this was probably 5 or 6 years ago). The three models that I bought were very close to the same size and or shape as those available from ForgeWorld, but for much, much cheaper. These models can only be assembled one way, and there aren't any hatches, but they work just fine to represent Drop Pods, just like many of the DIY Drop Pods did from that era. Mine didn't come with any Storm Bolters, but the unit entry in every codex says they get one, so I don't see any problem with me gluing one to the top to represent that the model has a Storm Bolter. Same problem with the official Rhino model. Those, too, have a Storm Bolter in the unit entry, but there isn't one anywhere on the model. So far, I've never had anyone ever question that the Drop Pods have a Storm Bolter, so I haven't ever bother to add them. If someone questioned the fact that the model doesn't reflect a weapon that comes on it standard, then I would be motivated to add them, and would add them to the top just as I suggested.

 

RAW the hatches are blown open. If you modeled it such that the doors can't open, congratulations: your model is illegal and can't be fielded.

 

Rules as Written only applies to rules! The "hatches blown open" isn't a rule at all, but merely a background/fluff descriptor in the unit entry; there are lots of those in a codex - you ought to be able to easily distinguish the "fluff" part about an entry from the "rules" part in a unit entry.

 

Assume that by the background material Marines are supposed exit Rhinos through one of the side hatches, or the rear hatch - makes sense - but no one ever actually opens those hatches do they? Of course not - it isn't relevant to the rule, which is that to disembark you simply deploy every model in the unit within 2" of an access point, and the rules define the access points on a Rhino as those 3 hatches. What about our Drop Pod? In its rules, the Drop Pod is an "open-topped" vehicle, which means you disembark the transported models within 2" of any part of the vehicles "hull" - basically you treat the entire vehicle as one big access point, just as you would with an Ork Trukk or Battlewagon. In no way do I have to do anything with the model. I am perfectly free to leave those hatches up (even if I had the new models and hadn't glued them shut), and deploy each model within 2" as directed in the rules for disembarkation.

 

If your doors don't open, pretend that they do, for the sake of sportsmanship and the way the game is supposed to work. How do your models exit anyway if the doors don't blow open? Not a problem you say? Then allow people to trace LOS thru it =P as they allow you to exit it.

 

The models exit exactly as the rules for disembarkation say they exit. It works for a Drop Pod exactly the way it works for every other closed vehicle in the game (with a slight difference between open-topped vehicles and "standard" vehicles) - you set the models outside the vehicle and pretend that they opened a door, hatch, assault ramp, etc. to do it.

 

Now we are on to the second issue - TLOS. TLOS means exactly that, and it works both ways. You can't draw LOS through my Drop Pod because it can't be done. It is a big block of Opaque resin. However, I can't either. You can't see me through it, and I can't see you through it. But hey, guess what? It's no different than any other vehicle on the table - you can't see through my Land Raider and I can't see through your Leman Russ. That's how LOS and vehicles work in this version of the game. If you choose to drop all of your hatches on a Drop Pod that hasn't been glued shut, then that's fine, too. You can now see me, and I can now see you. Either situation is still completely even and completely fair.

 

I agree with thade on this. I mean its kind of a lame if I couldn't shoot through your pod, but somehow by magic your models can get out of it.

 

How are your models getting out of your Rhino? Is it also by magic? I haven't seen one open yet.

 

Regards,

 

Valerian

[Grey Mage]

I agree with thade on this. I mean its kind of a lame if I couldn't shoot through your pod, but somehow by magic your models can get out of it. I mean I could model a box over my space marine's base and say you can't draw LOS on it. That's definitely not how the marine is meant to be modeled and played...

 

But then again as long as you tell your opponent before the game and you two agree I guess its ok.

No more magical than how they get out of my Landraider Crusader- and no one ever complains about not being able to shoot through that, even though if you took out the side panel doors you could clearly see through the thing.

 

Your not entitled to shoot through anyone elses models.