How do I deal with this menace?!

[amberclad87]

So I've had a hard time with this stupid unit. If you don't know what the seer council on jetbikes is, it's a 10 man seer council on jetbikes (of course) with destructor (heavy flamer) embolden (re-roll leadership tests) and enhance (+1 ws and initiative) They always run with a farseer on jetbike which gives them fortune (re-roll all saves) and doom or guide (re-roll hits and wounds). This unit is the most stupidly annoying thing in the game (and eldar weren't annoying enough) and I've had a hard time killing them. I play Wolf Templars (black templars using the space wolf codex) and I just want to know the best way to deal with this unit.

[jesselowe]

AFAIK, volume of fire. Hit them with enough shots and they'll roll ones eventually. So that means things like HB Razorbacks, rapid-firing tactical squads, and rifleman dreads. Having a psychic hood around wouldn't hurt either; odds are that the Farseer will only get half his powers off if he's in range.

 

You can also try to tarpit them, but I don't know how well that'd work, tbh. Not sure what Wolf units make good tarpits, if any, and the jetbike seer council is so mobile it's hard to catch them if they don't want to be caught.

[Jackelope King]

This is why you take a Librarian as your HQ in your average all-comers list. Psychic Hood = sad seer councils. Null Zone = seer councils crying blood. This'll just very quickly deny the Seer Council its much-vaunted durability.

 

Beyond that, torrent fire. The same things that Terminators fear, so too do Seer Councils. It's harder to deploy skirmishers against a seer council on jet bikes and tie them up.

 

Note, however, that too many Eldar lists with Seer Councils actually rely on these guys for anti-tank. If that's the case, hopefully you've mech'd up and can overwhelm the Councils.

 

If the rest of his army is typical mech eldar (which is tough to do), go for suppressing fire, trying to smatter as many glancing hits across the table to keep his longer-ranged weapons from being brought to support his seer councils.

 

If you're going to tangle with a Seer Council in close combat and you don't have a 4+ invuln, you'd better be ready to throw that squad to the dogs. Thunder Hammer termies do a nice job here, assuming you can ever catch them (which is admittedly unlikely). If your opponent is good and knows how to stay locked in close combat (to avoid retaliatory fire), Combat Tactics is your only saving grace. He charges, you fall back, your army pours shots into the Council.

 

EDIT: Missed the Space Wolf Codex part. No Combat Tactics and no Null Zone makes it tougher, but you have other options. If you have lots of Missile Launchers (and Space Wolves do that better than anyone), there's an excellent source of torrent firepower. Rune Priests are pretty darn good as well, and Tempest's Wrath is a decent all-comers power anyway. Against Eldar it's punishment, pure and simple.

[Pigeons]

AFAIK, volume of fire. Hit them with enough shots and they'll roll ones eventually. So that means things like HB Razorbacks, rapid-firing tactical squads, and rifleman dreads. Having a psychic hood around wouldn't hurt either; odds are that the Farseer will only get half his powers off if he's in range.

 

You can also try to tarpit them, but I don't know how well that'd work, tbh. Not sure what Wolf units make good tarpits, if any, and the jetbike seer council is so mobile it's hard to catch them if they don't want to be caught.

 

 

 

 

i wouldn't tarpit them, you don't want to get into close combat with all those witchblades re-rolling hits and/or wounds rolls

[Sanctjud]

I will put my vote with Weight of Fire as well.

But, you have to commit to that.

 

Libby helps alot, if you can, try and wait til Fortune doesn't go off. Why? Because they solely depend on it to be their anvil self.

If they don't have Fortune on, then they are just like any other MARINE equivalent durability (inv. saves aside) so the most cost effective way of downing them is bolter fire and the like.

 

Councils are IMO not as scary as they used to be.

[Chengar Qordath]

As others have said, a Rune Priest is a good investment for any SW force up against Eldar. Tempest's Wrath and Murderous Hurricane can both cause Jetbike Seer Council's a great deal of annoyance by making the unit test for difficult/dangerous terrain, and if you block the farseer from using fortune the unit's durability goes way down. JotWW might not be a bad investment either; Warlocks only have an Initiative of 4 so they're reasonably vulnerable to it, and the ability to bypass armor/invulnerable saves makes fortune less problematic than it normally is.

[bystrom]

The re-roll to hit is IIRC only for ranged fire, so no worries when in CC. Witchblades don't ignore armour, so good armour save are useful.

As others have said, they rely on fortune to stay alive.

They're mobile, but if you can force them to move as in difficult terrain (dangerous for them), then they can't turbo-boost, slowing them down to at least 12" (18" if the included Assault jump is included - though that's two dangerous terrain tests).

One tactic is to try and get the jump on the farseer (though its probably very difficult to pull off). As the farseer is an IC, if the squad is charged, he has to defenders react-move first, so you've got a good chance to get to attack him (though the eldar player's probably going to try and place his unit's formation in such a way that that won't happen). Throw out enough S6+ attacks and the farseer dies, and with him, the psychic powers which boost the council so much.

I'm not sure, but I'm guessing the warlocks will have I5 with their enhance power against JotWW.

Tarpitting them is IMO not too bad an idea, the problem is 1. getting the unit in CC with the seer council. 2. keeping the tarpitting unit alive against the seer council and still not too expensive.

A way to get a psychic hood in is using allies from the DH or WH codex, but that might not be your cup of tea. I've heard that you can use both psychic hood and whatever the rune priest has, as they're not the same kind equipment, making it ridiculously hard for enemy psychic powers to function. Don't know if that is the case, I don't know much about the wolves.

[Pigeons]

The re-roll to hit is IIRC only for ranged fire, so no worries when in CC. Witchblades don't ignore armour, so good armour save are useful.

 

 

 

 

i thought they were power weapons? or did that change with 5th rulebook? i can't really remember

[Hellios]

The re-roll to hit is IIRC only for ranged fire, so no worries when in CC. Witchblades don't ignore armour, so good armour save are useful.

 

 

 

 

i thought they were power weapons? or did that change with 5th rulebook? i can't really remember

 

They are not power weapons and you can find the rules for them in the BBB in the close combat weapons sections. So yer they wound you on 2's :P I wish they were power weapons... nope only Eldrad and his magic pimp stick do that

[amberclad87]

Can you seriously use a psychic hood and a runic weapon at the same time to nullify psychic powers? That would be awesome if you could!

[Grey Mage]

So I've had a hard time with this stupid unit. If you don't know what the seer council on jetbikes is, it's a 10 man seer council on jetbikes (of course) with destructor (heavy flamer) embolden (re-roll leadership tests) and enhance (+1 ws and initiative) They always run with a farseer on jetbike which gives them fortune (re-roll all saves) and doom or guide (re-roll hits and wounds). This unit is the most stupidly annoying thing in the game (and eldar weren't annoying enough) and I've had a hard time killing them. I play Wolf Templars (black templars using the space wolf codex) and I just want to know the best way to deal with this unit.

Run up and hit them with jump packers or bikers, and tie them up for the rest of the game.

 

Theres not a single power weapon in the unit. Not one. I gaurantee it. Not only that, but frankly its not scoring and its most dangerous against vehicles. The unit plain and simple is a waste of an eldar players resources.

 

You dont need to kill them, you just need to keep them from running about using their psychic abilties on everyone on the board and killing your landraiders. So tie them up and leave them there. Then youve removed a good 600pt unit of his from the game and should have an easier time taking out the rest of his stuff.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Theres not a single power weapon in the unit. Not one. I gaurantee it. Not only that, but frankly its not scoring and its most dangerous against vehicles. The unit plain and simple is a waste of an eldar players resources.

 

You dont need to kill them, you just need to keep them from running about using their psychic abilties on everyone on the board and killing your landraiders. So tie them up and leave them there. Then youve removed a good 600pt unit of his from the game and should have an easier time taking out the rest of his stuff.

 

Maybe the Council is to fool people into trying to kill it, and it will last fairly well with its speed, toughness and re-rolled saves. Meanwhile the rest of the force is going about its job not being harassed :D

You know those sneaky Eldar, they'll try anything for the win :)

 

+++

 

Amberclad87; how do you find using the SW codex and what do you use and what does it represent as Templar units?

[Grey Mage]

Maybe the Council is to fool people into trying to kill it, and it will last fairly well with its speed, toughness and re-rolled saves. Meanwhile the rest of the force is going about its job not being harassed :)

You know those sneaky Eldar, they'll try anything for the win :D

 

+++

What?

 

Eldar? Putting out distractions to keep you from targetting the real threats until its to late?

 

Wed certainly never do that, Wraithlords wouldnt be another prime example.

[Giga]

Volume of fire + psychic hood to prevent them from putting a whole lot of armor rerolls, and they should start going down. If you can get null zone off, that's really nice too.

[Wulff]

librarian with a term close assualt squad..

u go in with null field.. attempt to hood down their fortune.. and chop them all up with lightning claws.. seer councils are nasty.. but things u have to remember.. is witchblades aren;t power weapons.. and if they are on bikes noone in that squad is lugging a pw around with them.. only eldrad and the autarch can have them in a council and eldrad is a ground pounder only.. the autarch would have to fight as a ind character.. so chop him down and take out his 500 point council with your 300 point termy squad.. each time he fails a roll and its a 4+ he loses another warlock.. good hunting.. and keep an eye out for his real hand to handys.. banshees and harlies...

 

wulff

[Brother-Captain Isaac]

Rune Priest, pure gold. Or as any IG player would, throw 30 rapid-firing bolters at them and *poof* there is just a pile of ash.

 

I would suggest you mech up, since some guys actually use these witchblade-toting-covered-in-robes-and-on-a-whoopee-i'm-on-a-flying-bike guys as their only anti-tank. Stupid. But then, Wolves are the only SM army capable of footslogging effectively these day......

[Justicar Valius]

I would have to say ignore them, i just quickly did it, fortuned seer council vs 10 missile launchers = 1.39 dead :D

 

So i go with Grey Mage, after all this is a discussion about Space Wolves and Eldar. Who else would you listen to in a situation like this!

[bystrom]

30 rapid-firing bolters = 60 bolter shots = 40 hits = 20 wounds = 2.2 unsaved wounds with fortune (average). Not a lot considering the damage 30 rapid-firing bolters can do to any or several other squads, not to mention the difficulty of actually getting to rapid-fire 30 bolters against jetbikes.

If they charge a squad they get:

10 witchblades = 30 attacks = 20 hits (WS5) = 18ish wounds = 6 dead marines (at I5), or 3 termies. More likely they'll have some singing spears as well, which means, coupled with the destructors, more shooting and less close combat potency.

[Koremu]

First off, hit it with a Thunderfire cannon, because that will prevent them from Turbo-Boosting next turn.

 

Next turn, drop a Librarian with Null Zone and The Avenger next to them with 10 Sternguard. Vengeance rounds remove the 3+ armour save they get from the bike, so they get 20 shots = 13.33 hits = 6.66 wounds = 5 dead.

 

Then tarpit them with an Assault Squad.

[Grey Mage]

Its actually more like 3 wounds.... rerolls from fortune cancel out rerolls from null zone, wich gives us the standard 50% rate for a 4++ save.

 

And looking at all that... you just spent... 485pts minimum on taking out a squad with little tactical value to the enemy army overall. And thats assuming your lucky enough to get that particular drop pod in the turn after you target them with your TFC.

 

As to the Assault Terminator idea, good luck catching them.

 

Nah, hold them up with assault marines, or bikers, and youll do fine. Just keep your dreadnaughts away from them unless your close enough to counter-assault them with a grey hunter pack.

[Koremu]

Maybe.

 

The other way to do it is to wait until they Turbo Boost towards you and then fry them with a Flamestorm Cannon, which at STR6 means he can't "save" wounds by stacking on the Farseer. Remember that the Seer Council can't fortune and Turbo Boost too.

[gettothegone]

While the flamstorm cannon is an awesome idea.

 

If you happen to down a seer council with one, he's a terribad eldar player.

[KhorneHunter57x]

If it annoys you enough, you could always invest in a cheap Hereticus Inquisitor Lord with Hood, Hammer of the Witches, mediumish retinue in cover, and grab a Culexus Assassin.

[Chengar Qordath]

On the topic of assassins, the Callidus also bears mentioning. AWIYE can cause some inconvenience, and the C'tan Phase Sword's ability to deny armor and invulnerable saves is nicely useful for a unit that derives much of its durability from its saves. The neural shredder is not to shabby either, since it will wound on a 4+ and forces them to use their invulnerable save.

[KhorneHunter57x]

True, but if you know that you will be fighting the Biker Council, I would say the Culexus is far better. The potential for a 13-shot gun at BS 5 that wounds on 3+ and forces them to use their Invul is pretty nasty, and this combined with the Psychic Abomination, Soulless, and Etherium rules makes the Culexus utterly lethal to this unit.

 

Also, if you take Hammer of the Witches and combine it with the Soulless rule, you can thin out the Warlocks pretty quickly. Just make sure to keep your =][= Lord away from the assassin.

 

 

(note: if the rumors are true and the =][= get a new codex soon and lose the allying rules, then this is only a short-term solution.)