not using death company?

[chaplain belisarius]

Hi guys...does anyone NOT use death company? I have done a 1k list and it has no death company (will add them in bigger battles though!)

 

Does anyone else not use death company in their BA army and why?

[Isryion]

I think that you can play with DC or not, depending on your style and force org slots.

 

DC as troops are the easiest way to get an elite, hard hitting close combat unit in the army that has all the benefits of having an SP without actually paying for one. This is, of course, provided you are comfortable with rage.

 

Other units that can be used in the same role would be HG, SG, and VV. All with slightly different limitations, advantages, drawbacks, but all imo.

 

I take DC because they give my army some model variation and they are also uniquely Blood Angel.

[Dark Legionnare]

It really depends on the game. 750-1000 pts I try to stay away, but any larger and I usually field the squad, 6-8 dc with a Reclusiarch(usually 6). Rage can be an absolute pain and ruin some strategies, but the DC are like terminators. If someone's played against them and got really hurt by them, they tend to shoot at them on their turn. Like a squad of termies deep striking, they draw fire usually. I'm no pro tournament player by far and I don't play against gods of rational thinking, but they are strong, a good diversion, and deadly in close combat, especially with power weapons and a Reclusiarch. Re-roll hits and wounds is delicious.

[Droofus]

Rage hurts. Bad. I think the only way to field them competitively is to drop them in a transport. I'll field them again when I have my Death-Raider and Death-Rhino painted up.

[Dingareth]

Rage? Not Scoring, but uses up a troop slot? No Storm Shields? No thank you, I'll stick to my Vanguard and my Honor Guard.

[wookielips]

DC as troops are the easiest way to get an elite, hard hitting close combat unit in the army that has all the benefits of having an SP without actually paying for one.

 

i couldn't agree more. elite in one of your six troops slots is verrrrrrrrrrrry handy.

 

even in a 1k pt game, they can be useful. very.

 

for 250 pts w/o fancy extras, you get an AMAZING unit. 5 dc, chappie (or a pinch more a reclusiarch) and a rhino. if you need long range punch, even at 1k, a razorback is a viable workhorse to keep them from raging, and in such a small game, they will hit like a mack truck.

 

re-rolling hits AND wounds, against such a small sized opponent, will be devastating.

[Isryion]

Rage? Not Scoring, but uses up a troop slot? No Storm Shields? No thank you, I'll stick to my Vanguard and my Honor Guard.

 

 

No argument that the rage is an issue, but non-scoring troops slot? I don't see many players using all six troop slots. Maybe if you are going with a troop horde or all 5 man packs, but other than that....

 

The other upside to the DC is that you can then take a DC Dread.

[JamesI]

I don't use them. I tried DC four games (1 with jump packs, 3 without) and was always disappointed. So they are in the figure case waiting for either huge games or our next codex.

[Quantra]

For me DC have been the most reliable part of my army (at 1.5k) give them a fist and a reclusiarch, pop them in a rhino and open the tin at an appropriate moment.

 

When playing 1k games though I have struggled to get them into a reasonable list.

[undeadfilth]

I regularly play 2.5k and never use death company. ever. like them in theory but rage is retarded.

[Rob_Loken]

I used em last week in a 2000 and 1000 point games. 6 of them in a Razorback with 3 power weapons and 3 boltguns and 3 boltpistols and chainswords. They demolished an entire squad of assault terminators in one turn. Which I enjoyed. Then they held up another squad just long enough for my reserves to arrive and eat Belials squad alive. Yeah rage is a nuisance and in a tournament game you wouldn't risk them being led about by the snout but in friendly games they provide great amusement. They are butchers par excellance.

[Remmah]

Haven't used DC in games either.

 

Jumppacks are stupendously expensive, so thats out in any case.

 

For the rest, you need a lot of points to make them viable, powerweapons chaplain etc. Then you still need to get the charge wich on foot or without a landraiders assault ramp is not guaranteed.

And rage makes it harder and provides liability.

 

But then again....

 

The models are awesome, so the rule of cool applies. They deserve to be tried a few times at least.

[JamesI]

The models are awesome, so the rule of cool applies. They deserve to be tried a few times at least.

The models are awesome. So use them as something else like Honor Guard or Vanguard.

[wookielips]

The models are awesome, so the rule of cool applies. They deserve to be tried a few times at least.

The models are awesome. So use them as something else like Honor Guard or Vanguard.

 

QFT

[Redo]

Rage? Not Scoring, but uses up a troop slot? No Storm Shields? No thank you, I'll stick to my Vanguard and my Honor Guard.

 

 

No argument that the rage is an issue, but non-scoring troops slot? I don't see many players using all six troop slots. Maybe if you are going with a troop horde or all 5 man packs, but other than that....

 

The other upside to the DC is that you can then take a DC Dread.

 

Great Point here! 6 slots is enough to include a non-scoring DC. In virtually all battles I am not going to fill up the other 5 slots and if I do chances are that it is an Apocalypse Battle and then it doesn't matter.

 

The big issue with the DC is the rediculous cost for Jump Packs (10 points would have been fair) and the Rage rule. With no way to control it, DC with mega expensive JP's are rather infeasible. Both of these rules are just plain old rubbish and more than porely thought out. As such I run my DC in a Rhino or a Raider to negate the Rage until I let them go.

[Emperors Immortals]

Ive only played a few games with the new dex so far, but ive had no problems with DC - i drop them in a pod in the basic area i want some chaos or put them in a rhino which i then use to ram other nearby squads.

 

Just dont plan on them doing anuthing other then cvharge and kill.

[chaplain belisarius]

Fascinating...

 

My 1k list;

 

captain-jump pack, powersword, inferno pistol.

 

2 tactical squads-ten men with flamer and missile launcher(combat squadded)

 

2 assault squads-5 men in each with flamer and powerfist for vet sgt. (captain leads one squad)

 

2 attack bikes-multimeltas.

 

1 baal predator-heavy bolters.

 

Im actually very pleased that ive got some tacticals in there...

 

I will take some DC in a drop pod in bigger battles (rage makes them hard to use well against a semi competent opponent-i miss the old rending DC)

 

Thanks for all the feedback guys-what do you think of my list?

[igotsmeakabob!!]

Alot of people will compare units to hammers, anvils and scalpels.

To me, the Death Co. are a flamethrower. A solid squad of 9 (TH+PW) with a Chaplain/Reclusiarch will sweep away most enemies, but there are some things their fire can't purge.

If you think you'll be fighting a force with alot of foot-bound enemies (ex: Nids, 'Crons) then the Death Co. are fantastic. Their flamer template of carnage will cover most of your enemies. However, if you need a hammer, anvil or scalpel... look somewhere else.

[DetholicHawk]

I personally would never use death company outside of a few DC only lists I have.

 

Just me though.

[SamaNagol]

Matt Ward is responsible for their demise. They should really Errata Litanies of Blood to make it so the DC are immune to Rage USR. Cos there's no need to take them with our super excellent troops, vanguard, honour guard, Talon Dreads and of course Assault Terminators.

[Politikill]

why bother

 

ten man assualt squad has virtually the same weapon load outs

sanguine priest added with a lib with unleash fury.

superior death company for 100 pts less with the ability to reroll to hit and wound in any round of combat, yours or theres.

plus blood lance the libby and you can unleash hell, even on multiple tanks.

its the main stay of any ba list i play, and undefeated when coupled with mephy

[Quantra]

why bother

 

ten man assualt squad has virtually the same weapon load outs

sanguine priest added with a lib with unleash fury.

superior death company for 100 pts less with the ability to reroll to hit and wound in any round of combat, yours or theres.

plus blood lance the libby and you can unleash hell, even on multiple tanks.

its the main stay of any ba list i play, and undefeated when coupled with mephy

 

I used to feel the same. JP DC are too expensive still in my mind. It's only when I took the packs off and put them in a rhino did they become good. I have also found with the RAS people will pick off the priest in combat, so they lose their FC and FNP, DC always have it. Also it's a minor point but the chappy gives rerolls to hit and wound but the librarian gives prefered enemy. Seems pretty similar since prefered enemy can be used in either player's turns but I like the fact that with the chappy I can reroll to hit against vehicles too. Something else which hasn't been mentioned is their WS 5, hitting on 3's against MEQ's is great. Finally there is the fear factor, I've seen someone turn their entire army to shoot on 3 deep striking DC with JP simply because of the fear.

 

As for the rage issues there are ways to make it easier. First off put them in a transport and unleash in a decent position, our rhino's are fast so a turn 1 18" to a good spot is not impossible coupled with a turn 2 disembark move 6" and assault has worked well for me. Also rage doesn't affect assaults you can charge whoever is in range and multiple assaults are your friend. Finally I always take a fist so when they rage into a tank I can smack it up too with the afore mentioned re rolls to hit.

 

Well these are just my thoughts and experiences I do understand why people don't take them but for me they are yet to let me down so they stay in the list.

[Isryion]

Matt Ward is responsible for their demise. They should really Errata Litanies of Blood to make it so the DC are immune to Rage USR. Cos there's no need to take them with our super excellent troops, vanguard, honour guard, Talon Dreads and of course Assault Terminators.

 

 

Folks, I think we need to get over this. DC are just not that bad, and as myself and many others have experienced they are worth the cost and rage isn't the killer that everyone thinks it is (at least without jump packs and some have even had success with them). IMO, if Rage is removed in some manner they become way too cheap and far too good (especially with rerolling to wound with a chaplain). All of the others that you mention have weaknesses that are different from the DC weakness, and balance things out. I'd argue that it's actually very well balanced.

 

Vanguard are fast attack and compete with the Baal and bikes. Ignoring that, they are not WS 5, don't come automatic with FNP and Furious Charge, have a higher base cost than DC and extra models cost exactly the same. Jump packs aren't as expensive, but even if you compare them at the jump pack cost, the most you save in a unit of 10 is 35 points. Buy and attach a priest and you're now over the cost of DC for a unit that isn't going to hit as hard. You've got no rage and unit you can control, but you've paid for it. They also have HI, but even with DoA I don't see it as that effective.

 

Honor Guard are max 5, so can be dealt with easily and again, aren't that much more cost effective, though the built in priest helps. 5 Honor guard are 115, 5 DC are 100. Add jump packs to both and you Honor Guard are 10 points cheaper than the same DC with jump packs. Again, they can be controlled but they don't hit as hard. Upside is they are more versatile.

 

Talon Dreads, and you must be referring to the Furioso because to get a DC dread you have to take DC, are very solid and can do the same thing to infantry that the DC can. Obviously the downside is that they can be taken out very easily. Personally, I think it will be interesting to see how effective these are a few months down the road when people realize that hey are a number one target.

 

As for Assault Terminators, they are probably better overall, but they come at a much higher cost because to make them effective you need a Land Raider, so you've spent a lot of points.

 

I'd actually argue that the DC and the rest are very well balanced and that this is actually a major advantage to the codex. To me, at least in this regard, it means it's actually well written. Again, it comes down to playstyle, slots available, and how well you can control the rage. For some the latter is a big issue and makes the DC unplayable, but there are plenty of us who aren't finding it a major issue. It might be because I keep my DC small, so losing a bit of control of them if there vehicle is destroyed isn't a huge issue.

[Terrahawk]

Alot of people will compare units to hammers, anvils and scalpels.

To me, the Death Co. are a flamethrower. A solid squad of 9 (TH+PW) with a Chaplain/Reclusiarch will sweep away most enemies, but there are some things their fire can't purge.

If you think you'll be fighting a force with alot of foot-bound enemies (ex: Nids, 'Crons) then the Death Co. are fantastic. Their flamer template of carnage will cover most of your enemies. However, if you need a hammer, anvil or scalpel... look somewhere else.

 

Now that's a comparison I can get behind! *WOOOOOOOSSHHH* Burn Heretics, burn! :P

 

On a more serious note, I agree completely with Isryion in addition to bro kabob. I find DC very balanced and they bring a lot of hurt on the table with a humble cost in points. Rage is there to balance things and so far it's looking it really isn't the hindurance it's often made out to be (at least in my own very subjective experience). So I'll definitely keep using them.

[Whitefireinferno]

Yeah I will use DC and I am glad you cannot control the Rage since in the state they are suppose to be in *freaking out thinking they are Sangy* I really do not see them listening to some dude in black.