not using death company?

[wookielips]

why bother

 

ten man assualt squad has virtually the same weapon load outs

sanguine priest added with a lib with unleash fury.

superior death company for 100 pts less with the ability to reroll to hit and wound in any round of combat, yours or theres.

plus blood lance the libby and you can unleash hell, even on multiple tanks.

its the main stay of any ba list i play, and undefeated when coupled with mephy

 

wrong.

 

1. 10 man RAS does not have anywhere near the options, or the quantity of options DC has

2. unless you are adding a CHAPLAIN, not a librarian, you are not re-rolling wounds

3. points is no comparison. 190 for RAS, 200 for 10xDC. you do not need a SP, which saves quite a bit there, and they are all base 2 attacks.

 

sorry, but DC coming out of a transport are hands-down better.

[Zamar]

Personally, my 5 man DC with 1 pw in a rhino with a reclusiarch has the most kills of any unit i have since the old codex. I love my DC and will nearly7 always include, them, the just work so well.

[Firedrake28]

To the OP - you're far from the only person that doesn't use Death Company. Once, while writing a list using Army Builder I made a squad of 3 unupgraded Death Company and a Rhino (because I like to have my minimum-sized unit before adding any upgrades and all). When I noticed that before any weapon upgrades or additional squad members it'd cost me 110 points for these four models, I basically decided against Death Company from that point on.

[Crynn]

dc in a rhino so they can be controlled are a viable option as the rage can be controlled, with chaplain helps only a few uprgrades and not to big of a squad can work. Though I find with the priests in the army they arent a massive upgrade on normal units if they dont have the chaplian. If you give them a land raider and some upgrades you should almost just always sub in assault termies in my opinion. I think over all while im not their biggest fan there is room for rhino and dc, but dc + raider or dj with jp are just way overcosted for what they do.

[Ultramarcos]

2. unless you are adding a CHAPLAIN, not a librarian, you are not re-rolling wounds

 

Unleash Rage is the do the same thing..re-roll to hits...to wounds only Chappy in the DCs.

 

I really love the DC, those guys kick ass but they are hell expensive (as explained many times in this thread).

The only list that I have them is my 2500 pts...where I put them, a DC dread and a Libby Dread in a Droppod to do DropPod Assault...the idea is to throw them in the middle of the enemy field...if the get distracted...at list they are close enought to do such damage...I try to drop both DC and DC Dread in the first turn to either drag enemies fire attention and/or "Tenderize" a bit the enemy forces until my Razorbacks full of RAS and Vindies and other goodies arrive. Although they are expensive, once you deploy them you should consider them disposable (Not scoring unity and Rage) whatever they crush in the way it's profit for you.

[TrentL]

They are only super expensive with Jump Packs ;) or if you trick them out too much (Like every unit having a special weapon) Yes if you have 10 DC 2 with Thunder Hammers 3 with power fists and 5 with Power Swords they are going to be expensive... but dont be so silly :P

[Isryion]

They are only super expensive with Jump Packs ;) or if you trick them out too much (Like every unit having a special weapon) Yes if you have 10 DC 2 with Thunder Hammers 3 with power fists and 5 with Power Swords they are going to be expensive... but dont be so silly :P

 

 

Yep.

 

A couple posts above, I showed how they are actually cheaper without jump packs than units like HG and VV.

 

Even with jump packs, they are only between 10-35 points more expensive (depending on whether you have 5 or 10 models). Really not a huge difference, especially when you're probably going to attach a priest to the VV, which actually makes them more expensive regardless.

 

It's just dealing with the rage. If you are able to, you have a far superior unit, in terms of sheer combat ability as well as cost effectiveness, than any of the others. If you aren't, they wouldn't be worth it for any cheaper (well, maybe).

[Brother-Captain Devlonir]

The power of Relentless and kitting them with boltguns instead of CC weapons is something some people do not really take into account. I like putting my 9 DC + Chap into a Rhino. I kit 1 with fist, 2-3 with power weapons and the rest with boltguns. The boltguns give up 1 attack in CC but add 24 inch range and 12 inch Rapid Fire for those enemies who want to be smart and run away from the DC to keep them out of CC. This greatly increases the danger area of the squad as a whole.

And once in CC, the Fist and power weapons literally rip through most enemies enough that the loss of 5 normal attacks isnt felt that much.

 

Agreed though that jump packing DC, though it looks awesome, isn't the best way to use our crazies. Use a transport for them.

 

I want to also add 1 point in favour of using a Land Raider as their transport or close to them (carrying another assault unit). The Land Raider is so big it can block LoS for the whole DC and can therefore be used as a way to control the direction they run to because of Rage ;-)

[Venerable Jazzman]

I'd stopped using them, but I've recently started using a 3man unit with jump-packs again. I keep them at the back to counter-charge or deter infiltrators, or if there's nothing there I'll bounce them forward as a little second wave to either bolster an existing combat or beat up any targets that present themselves.

 

I'm thinking about putting a fist in there as well, to deal with clanking opponents, but we're into 130pts at that point...

[rodgambit]

I've been using a 5 man squad with PF and 4 PW's accompanied by a Chaplain in a TLAC razorback. The 12" move from the razor back makes it hard for my opponent to destroy me in CC due to having to hit the vehicle on 6's and I use multiple razorbacks to focus fire. The re-roll to hits and wounds is just nasty. I've only had them go sour in 1 game where it was a chaos demons mission where they got within 6 inches of the warp and were instantly destroyed. I've also used a pack of 10 with a PF and bolters in a rhino successfully because the move 6" and fire 24 is still awesome or disembark at the beginning of a turn, rapid fire and still charge the enemy.

[chaplain belisarius]

any thoughts on my 1k list?

[Isryion]

Fascinating...

 

My 1k list;

 

captain-jump pack, powersword, inferno pistol.

 

2 tactical squads-ten men with flamer and missile launcher(combat squadded)

 

2 assault squads-5 men in each with flamer and powerfist for vet sgt. (captain leads one squad)

 

2 attack bikes-multimeltas.

 

1 baal predator-heavy bolters.

 

Im actually very pleased that ive got some tacticals in there...

 

I will take some DC in a drop pod in bigger battles (rage makes them hard to use well against a semi competent opponent-i miss the old rending DC)

 

Thanks for all the feedback guys-what do you think of my list?

 

Overall, I'm impressed by the number of marines you have in there, but I think you'll find your two units of tacticals being left behind, or at least much of your list being separated. The two five man assault squads are going to be too small to be effective. Drop a tactical and replace it with an assault squad of 10. Then drop one of the five man groups and pick up a sanguinary priest.

[wookielips]

To the OP - you're far from the only person that doesn't use Death Company. Once, while writing a list using Army Builder I made a squad of 3 unupgraded Death Company and a Rhino (because I like to have my minimum-sized unit before adding any upgrades and all). When I noticed that before any weapon upgrades or additional squad members it'd cost me 110 points for these four models, I basically decided against Death Company from that point on.

 

the next cheapest and closest equivalent is RAS 5 with rhino, as far as i can tell. for MORE points, with 2 more models (thusly giving you a bigger footprint on the table to be shot at/pie-plated etc), you get 1 less attack, or only 1 more attack on the charge (which is not guaranteed coming out of a non-assault rhino/RB). the discrepancy only gets wider the more models you add to either side of the equation.

 

this also does not take into account that in order to even BEGIN to compare apples to apples, you have to dump points into getting a SP with the RAS.

 

VV do not even compare, because while they have fun kit-out options, the starting cost for 5 is higher, and you still do not have the SP bubble.

 

yes yes, DC do not score, and they have rage. so plan for that. unless you are taking a DC ONLY force, you should have plenty of other options on the table to hold objectives, and rage should not be an issue with them spending their time crossing the table inside a turtle shell of some sort.

 

in the end, yes DC and their rage are an issue. but is there better bang for the buck in our codex? nope.

 

just resist the temptation to put lemartes in the squad and give them all JPs (although lemmie is teh hawtness coming out of a SR with some DC [non-JP] pals) :rolleyes:

[Ranwulf]

I use them. ALWAYS. They are amazing at the field, killing ANYTHING that they charge. Swarmlord? Killed. Demon Prince of Nurgle? DIE! Hierophant? Ok, they died, but they left him with one wound. Ouch.

 

Ran

[Brother Gaius]

Not a BA player, but why not put them in a DP? You should be able to give your opponent nightmares as he tries to make sure that they don't have anything good to assault the round after they land. DC w Bolters/PF or TH on two? models, an IP per 5 models (could probably do the same with the PF/Bolter as well, TBH. RAS w packs to handle the objectives, or w/o packs and pods (I would put the beacons on the pods, make it so you can have even more control of the field).

 

Transports are the way to keep the DC under control, but since it can be VERY hard to get them back in transports, might as well use a 'fire and forget' transport, IMHO.

[Zeller]

I've stopped using the DC unless I have too. They have no value to me outside of an assault role which I currently fill with cheaper and faster assault marines. If I have spare points then maybe I'll take them but on the whole I do not use them much.

[Deus_Sanguinius]

6 DC (1x TH) with JP plus Lemartes are sweat. Deepstrike them somewhere they will hurt your opponent and you will enjoy them. The only way to transport DC for me is to put them with a Chappy in a LR which makes them far more expensive. A Rhino is too fragile and with a Pod they are less mobil after disembarking (and possibly all enemys out of reach). So go for the Raider or JP! :pinch:

[Korraz]

I really like them. Rage isn't an issue at all, since they'll move towards the enemy anyway and you still can assault when you want (yes, nothing about assaulting in that rule. This is not WHFB-Frenzy.) But they'll wreck anything they assault, so, again, Rage just doesn't matter.

[Hurrey]

I havent used the DC in my last few games. Feeling the need to put them in a landraider made them prohibitive points wise. The fact they lost rending was my biggest upset (Don't know why, I can't roll sixes)

 

Reading this thread has made me want to crow bar a Rhino DC squad into the list I have been tweaking for ages and not even got to use yet!

 

Argh!

[SamaNagol]

A small squad in a Razorback is great for kill point missions. They can usually be guaranteed to earn themselves a KP every game turn once they get into combat.